Getting Fat

[Vinny]

I think this is a pretty standard mainstream point of view. I’m not sure how much time you spend here at RPF, but these contentions have been repeatedly refuted by a multitude of studies. Haidut, in particular, has posted a number of studies that offer other explanations for obesity, none of which align with your arguments. I can only speak for myself, but I’m not eating, sitting, eating, sitting. I walk A LOT. I have several dogs so we are out in nature, rain or shine, every day without fail. I walk at least 5 miles a day if not more. I do not work in an office setting, and I really don’t sit that much. I am moving most of the day. I do eat three meals a day and usually one snack. No more or less than my parents, grandparents or children eat. We all eat about the same amount. Actually, we pretty much eat/ate all the same things too. Just clean, whole foods... nothing processed or altered in some way.

Did you know that people in Belgium eat an average of 3700 calories a day? Seems excessive doesn’t it? Yet, along with Switzerland and France they have one of the lowest BMI in Europe. A Swiss person eats an average of 24 lbs of chocolate per year and as much or more pounds of cheese. Holy cow, that’s a lot of sugar and fat! How can you explain this phenomenon if sugar and fat consumption supposedly is what’s piling on the pounds for the average Peater?

As far as society valuing thinness ...that’s pretty much a modern western phenomenon. In the past, and in some places in the world still, thinness equaled/equals undesirability. Mostly because being thin could signal compromised health—a warning sign, so to speak. This is something that is still recognized among animals. Thin animals are typically starving or sick animals, and for sure that sends the message to others that : “ Hold on, something is not right here.”

Speaking of animals, how do you reconcile the fact that animals everywhere on the whole are getting heavier as well, in step with human trends? Even zoo animals on controlled diets are gaining weight, despite the fact that their calorie and macro intake is the same as it was in years past.

As far as the argument that we are sitting too much, wasn’t it just established that the remaining hunter gatherer societies that exist are really no more active than we are? Someone just posted something on that very subject. Needless to say, that surprised me, but apparently they sit around quite a bit too. It seems that most humans enjoy a mix of movement and rest... just as they always have, regardless of whether they are in primitive or modern societies.

These are just some examples of why many people are questioning the old idea that people need to eat less and move more. It doesn’t add up exactly, there are too many holes in the mainstream view and that’s why it is being challenged. Many people who are eating less and moving more are not making progress and not really understanding why. The mechanisms behind safe weight loss are very complex. That is why I suggested that maybe additional weight, although deemed unsightly, could possibly be health promoting or possibly a sign of good health for some people. I think it depends on the person honestly, but it seems to me that one size does not fit all. No pun intended.

Very good points, IMO

 

[redsun]

Well, I'll take your word that those sort of mythical people exist (specifically that didn't have weight issues before finding Peat or this forum), but personally, I have had weight issues since I was 8 years old. And no, I had not heard of Ray Peat at that time. As I have gotten older, more and more people seemed to join that "weight issues" club, and none of them seem to know about Peat or this forum, either. Every poster that I am aware of had some sort of health issue, often involving weight, that brought them here in the first place.

I have also noticed personally that a spike in weight seems to coincide with a stressful or cortisol raising event or lifestyle change (such as a surgery, being moved to a very early morning shift, or a spike in iron fortification policy) that would only affect diet indirectly.

It seems that it has to be a long journey to even find out about Ray Peat, likely after having gone through a few different weight loss ideas and hitting some problem or problems that the diet couldn't explain. Others here seem to have much more serious issues, and would seemingly be happy to feel better and be healthier, even if they did put on massive amounts of weight. By the nature of this forum, we are hard cases that keep on digging for better explanations or ways to do things, as we've found the standard advice to be incomplete, wrong, or just downright fraudulent.

I agree with you in regards to stress. But I personally put much more weight in severe stress, especially psychological, "destroying" the metabolism more so than anything else, even food, pufas, fortifiable iron which you are mentioning. This is the things I've looked into the most after reading Hoffer and Pfeiffer and similar material.

My worst stages of health always come because of a severe psychological stress, which I have dealt with quite a few times. Perhaps it is my personal experience that makes me think this way and likewise compelled me to find answers down this path as opposed to another. I don't want to get into the things I am not too well versed on, but I am not going to deny processing of foods and iron fortification and fake foods like pufa are doing people harm. Foods based on seeds which can include pufa oils probably cause mental illness to a degree.

 

[Nicole W.]

I am not mainstream in the slightest, apologies if you get that idea. I am an ex-carnivore dieter and had my fair share peating. I am of the mind that quality animal protein and energy (animal fat) is the primary determinant of health but I am not promoting carnivore eating and I dont think carbs are the devil. But, someone who is overweight does have to eat less one way or the other. Forcibly or an easier way through different food choices. But one way or another the fat has to be burned.

I never said fat and sugar makes you fat. If your energy balance is consistently tilted to way beyond your caloric needs you will gain a ton of fat in no time. Its about energy balance. Thats why belgians can eat 3700 calories in a day. And from a quick glimpse on google, its no surprise seeing as their diet is high in quality animal foods. Its not about sugar and fat, its about stuffing your face with calories that you don't need.

Um, you suggested right here that Peaters are “pounding down high calorie sugary foods and high fat content foods” and that’s why they are fat. First, this is a pretty insulting characterization of people you don’t even know personally. So thanks for that. Secondly, pounding down sugar and fat is EXACTLY what the Swiss, French and Belgian people are doing given the fact that they eat an extraordinarily high amount of daily calories which include an extraordinary amount of high fat and sugar content foods. Do you think these people are running marathons everyday? Burning it all off at the gym? Honestly, formal exercise is not that popular in Europe STILL. So they walk everyday IF they live in urban centers. Honestly, that’s probably about it. Otherwise, they climb into their cars to get to where they need to go. And yet, as a whole they are far thinner than we are. So much for your energy balance argument.

 

[redsun]

Um, you suggested right here that Peaters are “pounding down high calorie sugary foods and high fat content foods” and that’s why they are fat. First, this is a pretty insulting characterization of people you don’t even know personally. So thanks for that. Secondly, pounding down sugar and fat is EXACTLY what the Swiss, French and Belgian people are doing given the fact that they eat an extraordinarily high amount of daily calories which include an extraordinary amount of high fat and sugar content foods. Do you think these people are running marathons everyday? Burning it all off at the gym? Honestly, formal exercise is not that popular in Europe STILL. So they walk everyday IF they live in urban centers. Honestly, that’s probably about it. Otherwise, they climb into their cars to get to where they need to go. And yet, as a whole they are far thinner than we are. So much for your energy balance argument.

I don't know why you think what I said is insulting so calm yourself. Pounding down food means to eat beyond what you need. My sentence was exaggerated, but the point is eating beyond caloric needs. You can have a high calorie requirement daily. But you can't eat 3700 calories a day and maintain energy balance if you didnt need 3700 calories a day. I haven't looked into the belgians in depth, and I am not going to at the moment because I am hitting the sack. But one way or another, 3700 calories are being burned or used.

 

[lampofred]

In your experience, what’s the best way to heal adrenals and improve magnesium retention?

It's a pretty long-term process but dark roast coffee, aspirin, keeping blood sugar up, completely avoiding PUFA, eating salt and saturated fat to appetite, getting more calcium than phosphate, and taking vitamin K all helped. Nicotine gum will also help if you can get it without bad fillers but it will deplete calcium. Gelatin would probably also help a lot but I don't use it regularly. I think the main things are to keep blood sugar up and heal the liver by depleting PUFA and iron and replenishing calcium.

 

[Nicole W.]

I don't know why you think what I said is insulting so calm yourself. Pounding down food means to eat beyond what you need. My sentence was exaggerated, but the point is eating beyond caloric needs. You can have a high calorie requirement daily. But you can't eat 3700 calories a day and maintain energy balance if you didnt need 3700 calories a day. I haven't looked into the belgians in depth, and I am not going to at the moment because I am hitting the sack. But one way or another, 3700 calories are being burned or used.

My argument is that people in the US, as a whole, are consuming less calories and are presumably exercising more (since formal exercise is so heavily promoted in the US) than their European counterparts and yet are significantly heavier. How does your energy balance theory reconcile this?

 

[tankasnowgod]

My argument is that people in the US, as a whole, are consuming less calories and are presumably exercising more (since formal exercise is so heavily promoted in the US) than their European counterparts and yet are significantly heavier. How does your energy balance theory reconcile this?

It's essentially a circular definition, so it doesn't really have to explain any difference. But it's also not very helpful in coming up with practical strategies in how to reverse it, either. It also doesn't explain why hunger signals and eating habits wouldn't react to feedback, why extra calories are stored as fat instead of muscle, why extra calories would be stored at all instead of being burned or excreted, or if extra weight gain is even due to increased fat stores, and not something like inflammation and edema. It also doesn't help to figure out what caused the weight gain, if there are issues that should be address around it (like a pituitary tumor, or some medication like predisone, for example) And it certainly doesn't explain why sedentary people started to gain a lot of weight in the 1970's and after, when prior to that, sedentary people were extra skinny. Too skinny, as a matter of fact.

As to your point about Belguim, Kelj posted an article from the Eating Disorders Institute that suggests the minimum number of calories per day, even for sedentary adults, is between 2500-3500. The low end of 2500 would be for petite females over 25, the higher end for males, taller women, and those under 25. Caloric needs go higher with activity levels- I Need How Many Calories?!! — The Eating Disorder Institute

 

[yerrag]

I gained 23 pounds this year. At 168 lbs, it's my all-time high. Most of this weight gain went to my belly as my waist increased from 28 to 32 inches.

In years prior, I've been able to maintain my weight at 145 lbs, with my BMI not exceeding 25. All this time, I was not very active physically. I just go about my day and attend to chores, which really isn't much. About 6 years ago, I purposely stopped going to the gym and living an "active" lifestyle, just to see if I can disprove the need for going to a gym to workout. For the first 5 years, I was successful in disproving the need for exercise (outside of normal walking and doing my daily tasks).

This year, I had an endotoxin storm - the result of a new approach to my 15+ year long battle to lower my blood pressure. I'll spare you the details, but I could feel the effect of the endotoxins on my blood sugar regulation. First, I started to feel hunger between my meals. Secondly, I began to feel sleepy even right after meals, even coffee didn't help. I'd find myself needing to catch a nap during the day. Thirdly, I found that milk, sugar, and salt, and some GABA, wasn't even helping me sleep well. I had to resort to taking a dollop of butter to help. Before, I could maintain a blood sugar of 85 throughout the day in between meals, as well as after a night's sleep. And on a dry fast, I could maintain a blood sugar of 75 thoughout the 24hr fast. Now, my blood sugar would drop to 70 and 60, respectively.

I don't exactly know how endotoxins cause overweight and obesity, but it certainly is a cause. It's not the only cause, but I personally saw its effects on me.

Endotoxins are very hard to eliminate. In my case, it comes from a constant release of bacteria from the plaque in my blood vessels. I attempted to lyse the plaque this year with proteolytic enzymes. Since my plaque harbors bacteria that are considered dormant, my lysing of the plaque seemed to have allowed the plaque to become weak enough that now it constantly lets off bacteria, causing a continual state of low-grade infection and inflammation. My immune system would be in a constant activity of killing bacteria, and the constant die-off provides a regular source of endotoxins to my system. Somehow, the endotoxins are impairing my body's ability to control blood sugar, and this has led to my weight gain.

My theory is that the endotoxins have somehow lessened my insulin sensitivity, or put another way, it increased my insulin resistance.

Before, because of my good sugar regulation, my body rarely needed insulin to be secreted. With little or no need for insulin (as I didn't have high blood sugar), my liver was constantly producing glucose from my glycogen stores (as insulin inhibits glycogenolysis), and my endogenous production of glucose was at the same rate with my body's use of glucose, as used for oxidative metabolism (using glucose). At the same time, I was also burning fats through fatty oxidation (as a lack of insulin keeps lipolysis from being inhibited, I would have fatty acids for beta-oxidation; as lipolysis continues, my fat stores are being used up).

All that changed with the endotoxins. I believe that the endotoxins caused me to be more insulin-resistant. And with more insulin being in my system as a result, it is possible that my glycogen to glucose conversion is restricted, and I'm feeling hunger and low energy as a result of lower blood sugar. At the same time, lipolysis is inhibited (as insulin inhibits lipolysis) and as a result, I can't rely on beta-oxidation for energy. I'm also not using fat stores for energy. All this time, I had to eat more often to correct my low blood sugar in between meals.

A proper understanding of the role of insulin is needed to form a full picture of the mechanism behind overweight and obesity. Read the attached file.

 

[yerrag]

Whether the endotoxin is coming from within (vascular, which is my case) or from without (through the gut), as long as it as the supply is continual (as opposed to taking antibiotics to kill bacteria in an acute case, where the die-off or endotoxin production is only temporary), the effects of endotoxin will be long-term. This will be more challenging to overcome. If the overweight or obesity is from endotoxemia, then it will be more challenging to deal with.

I'm now using a modified form of dry fasting, where I take a tsp of cane sugar when I feel low blood sugar, to see if this will allow the body to deal with the destroy the endotoxin itself. @LLight has given me this idea to try, where dry fasting could cause the body to reach a hyperosmotic state, which leads to the production of the proteins NFAT5 and LL37. I'm counting on LL-37 to destroy the endotoxins.

I'm taking sugar as this will keep my blood sugar high enough so that I won't get sick during the fast from low blood sugar.

Dry fasting isn't for anyone though, and needs supervision. I believe I know what I'm doing, so I'm not worried. I've done 2 1-day dry fasts already. I'm now on a 2-day dry fast. I hope to gradually extend my dry fast length.

As many would agree, overweight and obesity is a condition that's difficult to overcome. I hope the approach I'm taking would prove to be helpful.

 

[Vinny]

Whether the endotoxin is coming from within (vascular, which is my case) or from without (through the gut), as long as it as the supply is continual (as opposed to taking antibiotics to kill bacteria in an acute case, where the die-off or endotoxin production is only temporary), the effects of endotoxin will be long-term. This will be more challenging to overcome. If the overweight or obesity is from endotoxemia, then it will be more challenging to deal with.

I'm now using a modified form of dry fasting, where I take a tsp of cane sugar when I feel low blood sugar, to see if this will allow the body to deal with the destroy the endotoxin itself. @LLight has given me this idea to try, where dry fasting could cause the body to reach a hyperosmotic state, which leads to the production of the proteins NFAT5 and LL37. I'm counting on LL-37 to destroy the endotoxins.

I'm taking sugar as this will keep my blood sugar high enough so that I won't get sick during the fast from low blood sugar.

Dry fasting isn't for anyone though, and needs supervision. I believe I know what I'm doing, so I'm not worried. I've done 2 1-day dry fasts already. I'm now on a 2-day dry fast. I hope to gradually extend my dry fast length.

As many would agree, overweight and obesity is a condition that's difficult to overcome. I hope the approach I'm taking would prove to be helpful.

IMHO, this post, and the previous one, are absolutely brilliant.

I,ve been thinking for some time, that endotoxin somehow messes up the body's energetic system, so that we become insulin resistant and can't use the fat stores properly. If this is the truth, there is a great hope for guys like us, despite, as you mentioned, very difficult to achieve.

Yerrag, until my stearic acid and cocoa butter arrived, can you tell me how to dance with the dry fast (I don't need supervision, I,m a big boy, lol)? And also, how come you take food (sugar) while on it? If it,s a fast, shouldn't be a full one (otherwise it turns into diet)?
Thanks

 

[milkboi]

You're saying this so forcefully and authoritatively that I think people might just go along with it because of your tone and not because of the logic of the content. Yes, the optimal for humans is to not be obese, but a cancer metabolism also causes massive weight loss, and based on the skyrocketing cancer rates, especially in the past 3 years, I would bet that a high percentage of the thin people in Western society who are past their teens (especially millennials) are running on a low magnesium, adrenal-driven cancer metabolism and not on intense, high quality glucose metabolism. Haidut recently posted a study saying that caloric restriction increases cancer risk by more than 60%. In current times I think quieting the adrenals, improving magnesium retention, even if it means gaining weight, is healthier than being thin. But in past times, for the older generations, I agree that caloric restriction would have been reasonable.

For sure. When I was thin, it wasn’t because my thyroid was burning hot, but because adrenaline and cortisol suppressed my appetite the first half of the day. Adding in black coffee when I was ~16 yo only exacerbated that.

 

[metabolizm]

I just cant. Over the past 2 weeks, I've gained another 6 pounds. I'm literally gaining by the day right now. Everytime I get on the scale, its higher. I am at such a loss right now. 55 pounds in 3 years. 20 in the past year.

You will lose weight on a carnivore diet, or something similarly restrictive. But it’s probably not a good long-term solution.

 

[rei]

Carnivore diet is maybe a more natural and healthier version of the tried and true (intermittent) fasting/keto craze that is empirically found to work very well for most people. The additional magic that Peat offers is to understand the whole picture, and realize that these are interventions/treatments to restore normal metabolism, not diets for life.

carnivore/fasting/keto all do their magic through the same pathway: when glucose is restricted you simply must oxidize fat to stay alive. This means new mitochondria are generated, badly functioning ones are recycled etc. Which might many-fold increase the amount of active centers that partake in glucose metabolism once it is re-introduced and stress metabolism stopped. Without glucose restriction the body adapts to stress by keeping mitochondria broken and simply ferment the sugar for hibernation level energy needs.

 

[cyclops]

Nicotine gum will also help if you can get it without bad fillers but it will deplete calcium.

Why do you think nicotine gum is of such benefit?

 

[Vinny]

Carnivore diet is maybe a more natural and healthier version of the tried and true (intermittent) fasting/keto craze that is empirically found to work very well for most people. The additional magic that Peat offers is to understand the whole picture, and realize that these are interventions/treatments to restore normal metabolism, not diets for life.

carnivore/fasting/keto all do their magic through the same pathway: when glucose is restricted you simply must oxidize fat to stay alive. This means new mitochondria are generated, badly functioning ones are recycled etc. Which might many-fold increase the amount of active centers that partake in glucose metabolism once it is re-introduced and stress metabolism stopped. Without glucose restriction the body adapts to stress by keeping mitochondria broken and simply ferment the sugar for hibernation level energy needs.

@yerrag what do you think about that?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’ve posted a number of times that the higher fat body is the longest lived and healthiest one.

If you look at old movies or photographs, everyone was thin. But until recently, people were living far longer than they used to, the people in those old movies and photos.

Even when I was very young, people’s dads would be dropping dead from heart attacks like flies. That isn’t so common anymore.

It seems that being fat is highly protective, and the point at which it no longer protects lays in very fat.

I am no longer worrying so much about my weight although I don’t want to get heavier.

Dr. Peat firmly believes in restricting calories by cutting out caloric foods. He has commented many times that a particular food is too calorie dense (grape juice for instance) or that he prefers 1% milk as it’s less fat.

However, that isn’t the same as pursuing a calorie restricted diet in order to lose weight. It’s merely choosing foods and eliminating other foods, which is something that we all do for various reasons.

There is ample evidence that “eat less move more” is totally not working for anyone. And that it lowers metabolism and leads to worse problems with weight.

 

[cyclops]

He has commented many times that a particular food is too calorie dense (grape juice for instance) or that he prefers 1% milk as it’s less fat.

Doesn't really make sense that any fruit juice would be too "calorie dense" on a diet where fruit sugar is considered the ideal source of carbs/energy and fiber is generally shunned except to get it in the (unique fiber) carrot. All that could mean is that he feels the ratio of sugar to vitamins in grape juice is not good -- too much sugar not enough vitamins/minerals - in other words grapes are not a well designed human food. But that would only make logical sense to a person who never consumes pure cane sugar as ray does. You cant consume pure sugar or cokes and then say grape juice is to calorie dense... makes no sense.

 

[Nicole W.]

It's essentially a circular definition, so it doesn't really have to explain any difference. But it's also not very helpful in coming up with practical strategies in how to reverse it, either. It also doesn't explain why hunger signals and eating habits wouldn't react to feedback, why extra calories are stored as fat instead of muscle, why extra calories would be stored at all instead of being burned or excreted, or if extra weight gain is even due to increased fat stores, and not something like inflammation and edema. It also doesn't help to figure out what caused the weight gain, if there are issues that should be address around it (like a pituitary tumor, or some medication like predisone, for example) And it certainly doesn't explain why sedentary people started to gain a lot of weight in the 1970's and after, when prior to that, sedentary people were extra skinny. Too skinny, as a matter of fact.

As to your point about Belguim, Kelj posted an article from the Eating Disorders Institute that suggests the minimum number of calories per day, even for sedentary adults, is between 2500-3500. The low end of 2500 would be for petite females over 25, the higher end for males, taller women, and those under 25. Caloric needs go higher with activity levels- I Need How Many Calories?!! — The Eating Disorder Institute

I totally agree with you. The motivation behind asking these questions is to demonstrate that the “eat less, move more” philosophy is reductionist thinking. Typically, it does not play out well in the long term for most people. Most people come to this forum in a traumatized state (emotional, dietary, disease states) and I agree with Kelj that part of the healing process often includes weight gain. She proposed that weight levels out once the healing process is over. But is that for everyone? I guess what I am still mulling over is whether for some people, they don’t lose weight. Or won’t. Their new normal is overweight. They stabilize at a higher weight because that is what is most healthy for them. I don’t think the body really cares about what it looks like, frankly. I think it’s prerogative is the ability to survive future trauma (which it has decided is inevitable) and to thrive generally. This is the body’s biological imperative. Less or no trauma/stress leads to less or no metabolic dysfunction. More trauma, more dysfunction. Wild and domesticate animals have suffered a lot of trauma due to environmental changes btw, is that why they are gaining weight? Is it the stress of our world?
I think the important question is how do we help the body “forget” the trauma? The obvious things like lowering psycho-emotional and physical stress, improving nutrition, consuming enough calories to drive repair and recovery help, of course. I’m wondering if going overboard with calories and stress reduction might get you there. Could it be that people who consume a extraordinary amount of fat and sugar based nutritious foods insulate themselves and their progeny from the metabolic consequences of trauma? Is that why the aforementioned Europeans are thinner despite the trauma of war, starvation, persecution etc... that they have suffered over the years? It seems like their bodies have just “forgotten” these events because their environments are now so abundant with calories and the stress-reducing factors in fat and sugar.

 

[Kelj]

I think this is a pretty standard mainstream point of view. I’m not sure how much time you spend here at RPF, but these contentions have been repeatedly refuted by a multitude of studies. Haidut, in particular, has posted a number of studies that offer other explanations for obesity, none of which align with your arguments. I can only speak for myself, but I’m not eating, sitting, eating, sitting. I walk A LOT. I have several dogs so we are out in nature, rain or shine, every day without fail. I walk at least 5 miles a day if not more. I do not work in an office setting, and I really don’t sit that much. I am moving most of the day. I do eat three meals a day and usually one snack. No more or less than my parents, grandparents or children eat. We all eat about the same amount. Actually, we pretty much eat/ate all the same things too. Just clean, whole foods... nothing processed or altered in some way.

Did you know that people in Belgium eat an average of 3700 calories a day? Seems excessive doesn’t it? Yet, along with Switzerland and France they have one of the lowest BMI in Europe. A Swiss person eats an average of 24 lbs of chocolate per year and as much or more pounds of cheese. Holy cow, that’s a lot of sugar and fat! How can you explain this phenomenon if sugar and fat consumption supposedly is what’s piling on the pounds for the average Peater?

As far as society valuing thinness ...that’s pretty much a modern western phenomenon. In the past, and in some places in the world still, thinness equaled/equals undesirability. Mostly because being thin could signal compromised health—a warning sign, so to speak. This is something that is still recognized among animals. Thin animals are typically starving or sick animals, and for sure that sends the message to others that : “ Hold on, something is not right here.”

Speaking of animals, how do you reconcile the fact that animals everywhere on the whole are getting heavier as well, in step with human trends? Even zoo animals on controlled diets are gaining weight, despite the fact that their calorie and macro intake is the same as it was in years past.

As far as the argument that we are sitting too much, wasn’t it just established that the remaining hunter gatherer societies that exist are really no more active than we are? Someone just posted something on that very subject. Needless to say, that surprised me, but apparently they sit around quite a bit too. It seems that most humans enjoy a mix of movement and rest... just as they always have, regardless of whether they are in primitive or modern societies.

These are just some examples of why many people are questioning the old idea that people need to eat less and move more. It doesn’t add up exactly, there are too many holes in the mainstream view and that’s why it is being challenged. Many people who are eating less and moving more are not making progress and not really understanding why. The mechanisms behind safe weight loss are very complex. That is why I suggested that maybe additional weight, although deemed unsightly, could possibly be health promoting or possibly a sign of good health for some people. I think it depends on the person honestly, but it seems to me that one size does not fit all. No pun intended.

Good points. Zoo animals and our pets become over weight because their diets are controlled by us.

 

[Lollipop2]

I think it's healthier to put on weight than to run on your adrenals but the ideal is to be at a good weight because of intense glucose oxidation.

+1 I am a bit heavier than when I was eating heavily restricted diets. Now, like @Nicole W. said above, I eat as my body directs me but eating, fresh, not processed, organic, grassfed, pastured, a bit of variety, low PUFA, sat fats, no enzymes, excipients etc. etc. Lately, I have been eating low to medium oxalate foods and it seems to be helping. AND I feel healthy, vibrant, and active, cook all my own food, love creating new recipes, research lots of interests, nurture friendships, play ping pong with my niece and nephew, and on and on.

I also had the “size dilemma and then it dawned on me. I have been eating more anabolic foods than in my restricted days. So my body has grown in size and not from fat per se. I am now like a healthy farm fed person. Waaaay better than when I was trying to be thin.