Getting Fat

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by iLoveSugar, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    I just cant. Over the past 2 weeks, I've gained another 6 pounds. I'm literally gaining by the day right now. Everytime I get on the scale, its higher. I am at such a loss right now. 55 pounds in 3 years. 20 in the past year.
     
  2. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Such is the case with the vast majority of people that follow a lot of the advice here. What are you looking for? If you are looking for a "Peat" solution, don't bother there isn't one. Just a lot of coping and more supplements from others in a similar situation as yourself.

    How many carbs and protein are you eating a day? Are you sedentary?

    If you can't do it anymore then don't. Stop eating as much, the pounds go down. You have been sacrificing a healthy bodyweight for years, for what? Peating? Peat principles?
     
  3. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Plug your daily food intake into cronometer and see what you are consuming.

    How is that not a 'Peat' solution? You don't think Ray would recommend someone eat less to lose body fat?
     
  4. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Ray probably would, but 90% of his community here wouldn't which is who is responding here.
     
  5. Nicole W.

    Nicole W. Member

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    But what if a healthy body weight is one where you are actually much heavier than before? Even if you weren’t that thin previously? Is this too crazy to consider? This situation is what I am currently dealing with and it has lead to asking myself a very difficult question: In order to feel really good, like my best self physically...do I need to be on the heavier side? Not obese, but overweight?

    I was always average weight, not too thin, at least by our society’s standards. I didn’t feel well at all though for a variety of reasons. Low thyroid, hormonal imbalance, tons of stress and sadness.. There were lots of problems that took years to figure out. Peat’s insights really helped me do that. For the last 3 years I have been very careful about PUFAs in my diet, I added in thyroid and some hormones and I feel so much better. I have managed to gain 20 lbs though. Yikes! I eat to appetite and I focus on a wide variety of healthy foods. I generally feel really good. Good energy, good mood. I laugh easily, I’m very creative and looking forward to what life has in store everyday. Life is far from perfect and there are still serious problems that are not yet resolved, but I have mostly come to terms with those things. I feel balanced and generally optimistic. I see this outlook as signs of good health.

    Ugh, the extra weight though! That has been hard as thinness is valued in our society and I am not immune to those messages.
    So ...I have been wondering if health and slimness could be mutually exclusive in some people. No one really talks about that here because, of course, no one wants to entertain the possibility that some people can’t be healthy and feel well UNLESS we are heavier. Certainly, we’ve seen evidence that weight is protective against certain diseases. Could it be that “extra” weight (again that is subjective and heavily influenced by society’s values) is just a facilitator of health, an actual SIGN of health and that is why the body resists weight loss?

    Get well, get heavier....like, forever?
    Gosh, I hope not (because I’d love to be thinner) but is that a phenomenon that people on this forum are overlooking? A LOT of people have complained about weight gain due to Peating and/or improving their health status. Does permanent weight gain and or resistance to weight loss necessarily hand in hand with better health? At least for some? Thoughts?
     
  6. corvetteseeker

    corvetteseeker Member

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    I’m in the same boat. I’ve come to the realization that if I want to reach a lean weight naturally, I have to be very restrictive with food selection or become an athlete.

    I’ve felt best and was leanest without any health issues either when I walked almost all day or when I played full court basketball every day.

    I don’t see how most people can become sufficiently insulin sensitive or deplete enough glycogen to reach a good weight if they lead a sedentary lifestyle.
     
  7. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Of course its crazy to consider. Humans are apex predators, not cows. You are confused because you like most people have become detached from your natural selves. What does modern civilization entail basically?

    Sitting, eating, sitting some more, stand up to go sit in a car and drive somewhere to sit at a desk and make money. Lack of exercise, lack of nature, lack of being our natural selves. That's why ironically as humans have become detached by modern civilization from our instincts, the instincts arise through other means.

    Best example is exercise and fitness of all kinds arises from modern civilization when we no longer have a need to exercise. Why? Because humans are still the same animals we were in plains of africa or wherever you think humans came from. We crave movement of the body in all its forms. Makes you feel alive and grounded more than anything else and it keeps you healthier than if you weren't exercising. It actually gives you more energy, not less.

    Are you surprised that you will feel really good if you eat, eat, and eat some more? There are individuals here who took this path and end up massively overweight and still think they just have a poor metabolism. Its a mindset that has trapped people in shells of obesity.

    Society values thinness because humans have always valued thinness like we value a beautiful face and a beauty in general. It isn't society, its us. When most all humans used to be lean this wasn't a problem. And all of a sudden as obesity rises society makes us think thin is better when you are saying that is not the case? That thinness is just pushed by society? Thinness is pushed by us.

    Humans are supposed to be able to keep a lean figure naturally, and yet in modern times less and less people can achieve this without massive amounts of effort. Hence more and more people become obsessed with being lean because something that is supposed to be part of the natural human state is no longer because we as a whole have gotten sicker and sicker.

    The fact that many, many peaters end up overweight should not make you think "oh maybe overweight isn't bad, and can be good even"... It should make you think "Hold on, something is not right here." It should be a HUGE red flag to something being amiss.

    What do lots of peaters start when they get started...? Eat lots and lots of calories from "peat-friendly" foods as if a calorie from orange juice is different than a calorie from any other food, that you won't gain weight. I think the fact that a lot of peat foods are very tasty and you can eat lots, I mean it is sugar mostly after all. People that come from low sugar diets and suddenly think they get a free pass for sugar and then what do they do? They pound down high calorie sugary foods and high fat content foods because sat fats are good for you. And reduce exercise or stop all together because of that increasing "stress hormones" crap. All people that gain weight are eating way more calories than they need. No surprise why many get fat here when you think about it for a good 5 seconds. It has nothing to do with better health.
     
  8. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    If you're skinny because you are relying on burning fat for your energy and your adrenals are overactive (and magnesium retention is low), then gaining weight is a good thing. I think this is why many people gain weight, eating sugar and saturated fat and taking out PUFA improves magnesium retention and allows your adrenals to rest.

    But if you're overweight because your metabolism is slow and you are unable to oxidize glucose, that is a sign of degeneration (because of estrogenic pollution, sedentary lifestyle, who really knows the real reason why).

    I think it's healthier to put on weight than to run on your adrenals but the ideal is to be at a good weight because of intense glucose oxidation.
     
  9. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    You're saying this so forcefully and authoritatively that I think people might just go along with it because of your tone and not because of the logic of the content. Yes, the optimal for humans is to not be obese, but a cancer metabolism also causes massive weight loss, and based on the skyrocketing cancer rates, especially in the past 3 years, I would bet that a high percentage of the thin people in Western society who are past their teens (especially millennials) are running on a low magnesium, adrenal-driven cancer metabolism and not on intense, high quality glucose metabolism. Haidut recently posted a study saying that caloric restriction increases cancer risk by more than 60%. In current times I think quieting the adrenals, improving magnesium retention, even if it means gaining weight, is healthier than being thin. But in past times, for the older generations, I agree that caloric restriction would have been reasonable.
     
  10. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Your advice is simplistic. Eat less. So banal. Is that the only advice you can give?

    Whether or not it's a Ray Peat forum, it doesn't make a difference. Just because most in this forum believe in a metabolic approach doesn't mean they're wrong in concept. And because they're not doing it right and are not getting their ideal weight doesn't mean your approach is correct. Your approach is not different from fad diets, or the diets used in The Biggest Loser. They only work in the short term, but it'll come back to bite unless there's follow-up advice for long term improvement.

    What other advice can you give that has is healthy and is a long-term solution?
     
  11. jacob

    jacob Member

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    In your experience, what’s the best way to heal adrenals and improve magnesium retention?
     
  12. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Underweight is just as bad as overweight of course. Calorie restriction is not a long term solution to weight problems. This is why all these new diets exist, to take the idea of calorie counting out of the equation. The long term solution and goal should be to satiate the individual to prevent overeating and cause them to eat less yet have more energy with as little effort as possible. That's the best way to lose weight in someone that needs to lose it. In the short term calorie restriction can be good.

    Extra fat tissue is not and will never be good for you. From what I have seen gaining the weight in the first place is the worst part, it makes you much more likely to have this higher set point weight.

    You are absolutely right in the long term calorie restriction is not a good solution but short term its perfectly fine. Best solution is to eat in a way that completely prevents overeating and naturally causes the individual to eat less (when trying to lose weight) while providing them sufficient energy to make the weight loss as easy as possible. There are ways you can eat that have you eating mountainloads of calories and yet lacking energy after 20 minutes and there are other ways where you have sustained energy despite eating less.
     
  13. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Funny thing is, it used to be incredibly easy to be thin. How did you do it? Simple, just be sedentary. Prior to the 1940's, people who had sedentary occupations (like writers and such) basically lost their appetite. In fact, these people would often be too thin, and their health would be compromised. That's why there were weight gain tonics and such (just do a google search for classic weight gain ads), and exercise was encouraged to stimulate appetite. Now, exercise is prescribed to lose weight instead of gain it.

    So yeah, there are plenty of people on this forum who struggle with weight, but guess what? So does pretty much everyone else in the US and most other developed countries. It's a ubiquitous problem. Stop pretending that it's only affecting a small group of people who visit this forum (most who have tried other diets with poor results).
     
  14. Nicole W.

    Nicole W. Member

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    I think this is a pretty standard mainstream point of view. I’m not sure how much time you spend here at RPF, but these contentions have been repeatedly refuted by a multitude of studies. Haidut, in particular, has posted a number of studies that offer other explanations for obesity, none of which align with your arguments. I can only speak for myself, but I’m not eating, sitting, eating, sitting. I walk A LOT. I have several dogs so we are out in nature, rain or shine, every day without fail. I walk at least 5 miles a day if not more. I do not work in an office setting, and I really don’t sit that much. I am moving most of the day. I do eat three meals a day and usually one snack. No more or less than my parents, grandparents or children eat. We all eat about the same amount. Actually, we pretty much eat/ate all the same things too. Just clean, whole foods... nothing processed or altered in some way.

    Did you know that people in Belgium eat an average of 3700 calories a day? Seems excessive doesn’t it? Yet, along with Switzerland and France they have one of the lowest BMI in Europe. A Swiss person eats an average of 24 lbs of chocolate per year and as much or more pounds of cheese. Holy cow, that’s a lot of sugar and fat! How can you explain this phenomenon if sugar and fat consumption supposedly is what’s piling on the pounds for the average Peater?

    As far as society valuing thinness ...that’s pretty much a modern western phenomenon. In the past, and in some places in the world still, thinness equaled/equals undesirability. Mostly because being thin could signal compromised health—a warning sign, so to speak. This is something that is still recognized among animals. Thin animals are typically starving or sick animals, and for sure that sends the message to others that : “ Hold on, something is not right here.”

    Speaking of animals, how do you reconcile the fact that animals everywhere on the whole are getting heavier as well, in step with human trends? Even zoo animals on controlled diets are gaining weight, despite the fact that their calorie and macro intake is the same as it was in years past.

    As far as the argument that we are sitting too much, wasn’t it just established that the remaining hunter gatherer societies that exist are really no more active than we are? Someone just posted something on that very subject. Needless to say, that surprised me, but apparently they sit around quite a bit too. It seems that most humans enjoy a mix of movement and rest... just as they always have, regardless of whether they are in primitive or modern societies.

    These are just some examples of why many people are questioning the old idea that people need to eat less and move more. It doesn’t add up exactly, there are too many holes in the mainstream view and that’s why it is being challenged. Many people who are eating less and moving more are not making progress and not really understanding why. The mechanisms behind safe weight loss are very complex. That is why I suggested that maybe additional weight, although deemed unsightly, could possibly be health promoting or possibly a sign of good health for some people. I think it depends on the person honestly, but it seems to me that one size does not fit all. No pun intended.
     
  15. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    You're hitting some good points. But some people eat more not out of choice, but out of necessity. When their blood sugar drops because of poor sugar regulation, they can get sick. So they have to eat again, and this makes them eat more. Being able to keep their blood sugar from dropping would help. Ridding the body of PUFAs by staying away from PUFA for 4 years is one way. PUFAs keep blood sugar from being absorbed and metabolized by tissues, and this causes blood sugar to increase to a point where insulin has to be secreted, and this causes the blood sugar to drop excessively, and with low blood sugar, our immunity is lessened. One also gets hungry or gets sleepy.

    This makes me wonder if most people in this forum really made the effort to do a 4-year PUFA fast. I did. I improved a lot in my blood sugar regulation. But given how normal it is for people to not follow through with something that produces results in 4 years, I'm not so sure if many people in our forum would bother.

    n.b. I'm not saying doing the 4-year fast is a guarantee, but it is one of many in a long checklist that has to be addressed. There are many more to address, but I just want to provide some continuity to what you said.
     
  16. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Of course this community isn't the sole victim to this. Point is that many who first come and follow a lot of advice from here find themselves with weight problems when they didn't have issues with weight before. You can argue well they are healthier eating peaty anyway weight doesnt matter, or they did it wrong or misunderstood certain principles of Peat-eating or for whatever reason.

    But the fact the matter is many users, at least the many posts I've read from others, start to have problems maintaining a healthy weight once they really dig themselves into "peating" and usually as years go by weight goes up and up or the weight never actually goes back down. Some people don't seem to get weight problems from peating, but the majority do create weight problems that weren't there before.
     
  17. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Well, I'll take your word that those sort of mythical people exist (specifically that didn't have weight issues before finding Peat or this forum), but personally, I have had weight issues since I was 8 years old. And no, I had not heard of Ray Peat at that time. As I have gotten older, more and more people seemed to join that "weight issues" club, and none of them seem to know about Peat or this forum, either. Every poster that I am aware of had some sort of health issue, often involving weight, that brought them here in the first place.

    I have also noticed personally that a spike in weight seems to coincide with a stressful or cortisol raising event or lifestyle change (such as a surgery, being moved to a very early morning shift, or a spike in iron fortification policy) that would only affect diet indirectly.

    It seems that it has to be a long journey to even find out about Ray Peat, likely after having gone through a few different weight loss ideas and hitting some problem or problems that the diet couldn't explain. Others here seem to have much more serious issues, and would seemingly be happy to feel better and be healthier, even if they did put on massive amounts of weight. By the nature of this forum, we are hard cases that keep on digging for better explanations or ways to do things, as we've found the standard advice to be incomplete, wrong, or just downright fraudulent.
     
  18. redsun

    redsun Member

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    I am not mainstream in the slightest, apologies if you get that idea. I am an ex-carnivore dieter and had my fair share peating. I am of the mind that quality animal protein and energy (animal fat) is the primary determinant of health but I am not promoting carnivore eating and I dont think carbs are the devil. But, someone who is overweight does have to eat less one way or the other. Forcibly or an easier way through different food choices. But one way or another the fat has to be burned.

    I never said fat and sugar makes you fat. If your energy balance is consistently tilted to way beyond your caloric needs you will gain a ton of fat in no time. Its about energy balance. Thats why belgians can eat 3700 calories in a day. And from a quick glimpse on google, its no surprise seeing as their diet is high in quality animal foods. Its not about sugar and fat, its about stuffing your face with calories that you don't need.
     
  19. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    But why does it have to be calories? We are in the midst of a 40+ year uncontrolled dietary experiment, where iron intake and PUFA intake have gone up dramatically (independent of total calories consumed), and both closely match the rise in obesity.
     

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  20. Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    Same shitt with me. I got 20 pounds this year, and became obese for the first time in my life. Nothing I,ve tried worked so far.
     
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