Getting Fat On T3?

[CLASH]

What's the result? Has it fixed symptoms of whatever or just temps?

I'm always undecided whether to go all out with thyroid supplementation, probably should.

See my post above. Its not a cure all but does take the edge off of a lot of issues and alleviates minor issues. It has a general well being effect. It creeps up slowly on you and you tend to only notice it when you stop using it. Also has a general energy increasing effect. Its one part of a larger strategy. Perhaps for Peat's generation it is more potent but in my experience with my generation is an aid with alot of benefits but it doesnt seem to solve all of the issues.

Edit: keep in mind this is within the context of using thyroid physiologically. I havent tried supraphysiologic doses, like 75mcg of T3 that bodybuilders run or anything along those lines

 

[mrchibbs]

Haha while everyones temps are for the most part within range, I wouldnt say optimal metabolic function. Most of us are nurses and nurse practitioners and the job can crush you some days physically. The thyroid helps cope with the stress but it doesnt fully compensate, bad days of work or poor eating habits cause regression. Almost everyone I know in my age group (early to mid 20's) has an autoimmune condition or some inflammatory situation going on. My gf has psoriasis, sister IBS, one friend has psoriasis, another chronic allergic rhinitis that the doctors think is autoimmune, I have IBS, another friend has HPV in his throat that needs to be lasered every couple months so his airway wont close, another friend has chronic lyme disease with arthrtis, another has PCOS, another with hashimotos, a few with obesity, a few with chronic lyme, a few with mental disorders, a few with bad ADHD, quite a few with low T and libido issues. My generation is sick overall, all of these people are 28 and below. Even with perfect diets, thyroid supps and other supps I can put alot of my friends and family into remission or get the symptoms down so low that they dont cause any loss of quality of life but I cant seem to "cure" anyone. Small regressions in lifestyle habits trigger flares.

Tell me about it. I'm not far from your age group (late 20s myself), and I know we're all sick. Teenagers right now are probably 2x worse off. Haidut posted something about a Blue Shield Blue Cross report last year which highlighted just how terrible the health of the young adults is compared to previous generations. It pinpointed a stage of dramatic decline starting at 27.

In contrast, the reports I've read along with anecdotes from my family seem to indicate that individuals would keep on developing and get more robust and healthier towards their late 20s and 30s, with for instance "peak hair" occuring between "22 and 27". Using hair as an indicator of metabolic health, I would argue peak hair occurs at 12-15 these days.

In our modern circumstances, guys balding and experiencing full blown health collapse in early 20s are starting the become the norm. For girls, it's more subtle things like PMS, weight gain, because even a partially functioning menstrual cycle (and ovarian activity) seems to be protective.

My neighbor's daughter is 11 and has been on SSRIs since she was 9. Things are not looking up.

(Props on being a nurse, I'm not in the medical field personally but when I was 20-22 I worked nightshifts at the ER of a major hospital and I saw firsthand how grueling it is)

 

[Scenes]

See my post above. Its not a cure all but does take the edge off of a lot of issues and alleviates minor issues. It has a general well being effect. It creeps up slowly on you and you tend to only notice it when you stop using it. Also has a general energy increasing effect. Its one part of a larger strategy. Perhaps for Peat's generation it is more potent but in my experience with my generation is an aid with alot of benefits but it doesnt seem to solve all of the issues.

Edit: keep in mind this is within the context of using thyroid physiologically. I havent tried supraphysiologic doses, like 75mcg of T3 that bodybuilders run or anything along those lines

My reservation is I feel like NDT is a long term commitment so I want to make sure I will benefit from it. Is there a downside?

Occasional low dose t3 usage is easier to play around with, but rarely does me much good. Is NDT a game changer that makes fixing anything/everything else easier?

 

[mrchibbs]

My reservation is I feel like NDT is a long term commitment so I want to make sure I will benefit from it. Is there a downside?

Occasional low dose t3 usage is easier to play around with, but rarely does me much good. Is NDT a game changer that makes fixing anything/everything else easier?

It doesn't have to be a long term commitment. If you make an effort to improve your environment by limiting mold/EMF/PUFAs and getting better foods, light exposure, meaningful work, relationships then after a while you may find you no longer need the NDT.

It simply replaces thyroid hormones to compensate for inadequacies in your environment, you can stop at any time, and go back to where you were. But considering thyroid improves efficiency of energy use, and increases metabolic function, it also builds structure, so any period of thyroid supplementation is better than none if you are suffering.

 

[Sefton10]

Tell me about it. I'm not far from your age group (late 20s myself), and I know we're all sick. Teenagers right now are probably 2x worse off. Haidut posted something about a Blue Shield Blue Cross report last year which highlighted just how terrible the health of the young adults is compared to previous generations. It pinpointed a stage of dramatic decline starting at 27.

In contrast, the reports I've read along with anecdotes from my family seem to indicate that individuals would keep on developing and get more robust and healthier towards their late 20s and 30s, with for instance "peak hair" occuring between "22 and 27". Using hair as an indicator of metabolic health, I would argue peak hair occurs at 12-15 these days.

In our modern circumstances, guys balding and experiencing full blown health collapse in early 20s are starting the become the norm. For girls, it's more subtle things like PMS, weight gain, because even a partially functioning menstrual cycle (and ovarian activity) seems to be protective.

My neighbor's daughter is 11 and has been on SSRIs since she was 9. Things are not looking up.

(Props on being a nurse, I'm not in the medical field personally but when I was 20-22 I worked nightshifts at the ER of a major hospital and I saw firsthand how grueling it is)

Agree with both yours and Clash’s observations. I work in higher education and have seen the general state of health and well-being (both physical and mental) in 18-25 year olds take a nosedive over the last 10 years. I think the average 25 year old now is akin to the average 40 year old in previous decades.

You have to wonder if no matter what we do with diet, nutrition, supplementation etc now, society and the environment is so dysfunctional that ‘optimal’ health is impossible, it’s simply a case of doing the best we can to mitigate against the dysfunction and slow the unavoidable decline (apologies for the pessimistic tone!).

 

[Regina]

You seem to have the right mindset. Very impressive. Having an entourage of people with good metabolic function probably makes for very enjoyable experiences. Plus you're all bonding over your shared habits. Great Job :)

 

[Spartan300]

@CLASH thanks for the call-out.

I have tried Tyromax before but not sure I made it past one grain/day. I'm in my 50s, maybe I need to give it another go and try those higher doses.

Sleep is the problem for me. I don't ever get into a sound/deep sleep it seems. On the odd occasion that it happens which is very rare everything improves.
Despite the sleep issue my androgens, DHEA-s etc are high but I don't display the those traits. 173cm/153lb but I have lost muscle & my capacity for exercise & recovery is compromised.

 

[Peater Pan]

It's really a shame that the NDT supply has degraded so much. Don't know much about Blanchard's protocol, is it small spread out doses of T3? If so, that's OK, I think large doses of T3 are positively dangerous though (some other "protocols" advocate for this).

If you could try to go back to your 3x1grain approach that might be best, of course you need to find a good product for you. And you need to ramp it up again, because all products are different.

Thanks. I'm reviewing Blanchard's work. I think it's PM T4 and very small dose(s)? of T3 early? MUCH, MUCH lower ration T4:T3 though. Considering trialing with synthetics. Ordered some LGS NDT. Could try TyroMax (have Tyronene)? but I seriously don't trust Rx NDT ATM and I'm not paying $130 for Amour. As far as T3 protocols, this is informative.

 

[ddjd]

i think i may have already responded to this post earlier. but i strongly suspect if you're putting on weight taking T3, you could be very deficient in B6. just from personal experience that's the only thing that helped

 

[Risingfire]

i think i may have already responded to this post earlier. but i strongly suspect if you're putting on weight taking T3, you could be very deficient in B6. just from personal experience that's the only thing that helped

Can you expand on this?

 

[hei]

Same here. Been on T3 for 4 months now, consistent 50µg/day after ramping up in the first month. Result: fatter than ever and I often feel sort of out of breath. All it seems to have done was uselessly increase my heart rate.
Imagine not being able to benefit from taking thyroid. I think my body is done with life and just waiting for the end.

 

[TMCMac]

I feel much better stopping the t3/t4 and doing exercise every day. 28m.

Ray is and has always been sedentary. I personally believe that if you are able to exercise intelligently then your chances of needing thyroid drop significantly.

If you're well enough to exercise then look into doing moderate / heavy kettlebell snatches 5-7 days a week. Has been a game changer for me. I don't have the time to take temps and adjust dosages etc. It's too much of a distraction and unhealthy if you don't actually need it.

Do you know any good resources on how to start with kettlebells and how to properly program to support thyroid response. I've also felt better when I used to lift some weights (at least in the beginning of a routine) but i always ended up over exerting myself and having to take a break.

 

[Sefton10]

Do you know any good resources on how to start with kettlebells and how to properly program to support thyroid response. I've also felt better when I used to lift some weights (at least in the beginning of a routine) but i always ended up over exerting myself and having to take a break.

I too have struggled to moderate exercise since finding Peat as I was used to training frequently and intensely for so long. Low frequency low volume are the best fit I have found to avoid overexertion, anything more than twice a week will inevitably set me back. I've tried little and often, and even spacing a workout throughout the day, but it seems to be the frequency that result in negative outcomes. It's as if my CNS remembers what it used to feel like and drops back into that hypothyroid state too readily. Currently I train at home every 5th day or so in line with the routine recommend at the end of this article minus the isolation stuff: Inside the Mind of Stuart McRobert — Training Advice You're Not Following. It scratches the itch of working out, maintains strength/muscle and is easy to track progress week to week. Other than that I just keep active every day walking the dog for a couple of hours.

 

[FitnessMike]

T3 doesn't help if there is lack of T4 to act as a reservoir through the night. That typically means it's time to be using NDT thyroid or a T3/T4 combo.

T3/T4 combos are most complicated to introduce, because they don't act like NDT thyroid, and if you take too much of it at anytime, it can wreck havoc on your liver, create a backlog of T4 and cause your temps to drop altogether. In this context, any excess of T3 (i.e. above a physiological amount of around 3-4mcg an hour), will cause the T4 present to be converted to rT3. So it's not T3 itself which gets converted to rT3, it's the T4 which isn't getting turned into T3 because usually something is lacking in the diet, or too much exogenous T4 was supplemented.

Guys, I don't mean to sound condescending, because I've been there too, but be careful with thyroid therapy. It's doesn't work magically, it takes time, and it especially doesn't work if it's not done right. Start slow, and be meticulous. Even with a therapy done right, with slowly increasing amounts of thyroid, we're talking 2 months before reaching appreciable benefits. When taking a T3/T4 combo, it's crucial to start as low as 0.25-0.5 grains (about an eighth of a cynoplus tablet), and only increase slowly, every 2 weeks, if the basal temperature is not trending up.

This is probably one of the best pieces of advice i found on the forum.

2mg t3 with meals quickly made me realize that i need t4 for the night, otherwise i wake up and am not being able to fall asleep as I couldnt for a few years in the past.

The problem is that t4 quickly raise my rt3, so now im trying bare minimum glandular in the morning plus plenty of stuff to help me keep my stress response low thru the day,

2mg t3 with meals, 3g aspirin thru the day, pregnenolone, food of course, 800mg magnesium glycinate thru the day.

hope this works deeeeeemnnnnnnnnn.

 

[ddjd]

This is probably one of the best pieces of advice i found on the forum.

2mg t3 with meals quickly made me realize that i need t4 for the night, otherwise i wake up and am not being able to fall asleep as I couldnt for a few years in the past.

The problem is that t4 quickly raise my rt3, so now im trying bare minimum glandular in the morning plus plenty of stuff to help me keep my stress response low thru the day,

2mg t3 with meals, 3g aspirin thru the day, pregnenolone, food of course, 800mg magnesium glycinate thru the day.

hope this works deeeeeemnnnnnnnnn.

thanks for reviving the thread.

my latest observations are that this t3 causing weight gain issue is particularly prevelant in those of us with low choline (look up PEMT gene homozygous snp- i have this and suspect many of you also do)

t3, like with a lot of peaty supplements is strongly anti-cholinergic, meaning for those of us already with low choline issues- t3 will cause weight gain, estrogenicity and insomnia

choline is actually very anti-metabolic, and high levels is not good for long term health. but low choline also comes with a host of issues.

other symptomns of low choline are gallbladder issues, problems with sleep/insomnia seems to also be a common trait.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

This is probably one of the best pieces of advice i found on the forum.

2mg t3 with meals quickly made me realize that i need t4 for the night, otherwise i wake up and am not being able to fall asleep as I couldnt for a few years in the past.

The problem is that t4 quickly raise my rt3, so now im trying bare minimum glandular in the morning plus plenty of stuff to help me keep my stress response low thru the day,

2mg t3 with meals, 3g aspirin thru the day, pregnenolone, food of course, 800mg magnesium glycinate thru the day.

hope this works deeeeeemnnnnnnnnn.

Advice? Where do you see advice?

And I'm not sure why he says this: "When taking a T3/T4 combo, it's crucial to start as low as 0.25-0.5 grains"
T3/T4 is measured in grams, not in grains.

 

[FitnessMike]

Advice? Where do you see advice?

And I'm not sure why he says this: "When taking a T3/T4 combo, it's crucial to start as low as 0.25-0.5 grains"
T3/T4 is measured in grams, not in grains.

what he says, matches my case, too much t4 (which is the bare minimum) cause boost of pulse for few days with subsequent deterioration to the point where i was, no t4 meds, waking up not able to fall asleep, i wonder if my tsh will get around up ( its been suppressed for a long time ) with all these changes i made past year, i wonder if my thyroid would make some more t4 now to keep me falling back to sleep.

 

[mrchibbs]

Advice? Where do you see advice?

And I'm not sure why he says this: "When taking a T3/T4 combo, it's crucial to start as low as 0.25-0.5 grains"
T3/T4 is measured in grams, not in grains.

There are grains and grams equivalent. For instance one tablet of cynoplus is 2.2 grains.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

There are grains and grams equivalent. For instance one tablet of cynoplus is 2.2 grains.

I see.
One thing that is not clear to me: I've seen people around the forum recommend a T3 micro-dosing throughout the day + some T4 at night.
And I've also seen / read about keeping the T4:T3 ratio at least 2:1 when using T3 & T4 combination therapy.
Well, in the scenario mentioned above, you're definitely going to have a T4: T3 ratio that is in favor of T3.

15-20 mcg T3 splitted throughout the day
+
6 mcg T4 + 3mcg T3 before bed

That comes to a T4/T3 ratio of .3: 1!!!

 

[mrchibbs]

The traditional thyroid products were around 4:1 T4-T3.

Many people these days converting T4 to T3 because of various stress or lacking specific cofactors, so Ray recommended a lower ratio of 2:1, but some people don't do well even with that ratio, and need almost all T3 because any extra T4 doesn't end up working well.

To me thyroid supplementation is a case study of just how different everybody is from a physiological standpoint. That's why you got to experiment to find what works for you.

Typically, some T4 is needed to go through the night, but somebody use T3 exclusively. I don't think there is any hard rule except careful experimentation.