Getting Fat On T3?

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Spartan300

Spartan300

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Appreciate your thoughts @mrchibbs

When I started supplementing thyroid I started with tyromax for around 6 weeks and had slowly worked up to just over 1 grain/day. I didn't see any tangible effects so I switched to the T3 which definitely had an effect on mood with temps improving slowly but later on.

Waking temp is 36.3 or 36.4 now and daytime peaks sometimes get to 37 but very rarely above.

Sleep is still not as good as I had hoped but is maybe slowly improving. I have some tyromix now so I'll try taking 1 drop of that for some additional T4.

When tested a while back my T4 was midrange so I always assumed conversion was compromised for me.
 

mrchibbs

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Appreciate your thoughts @mrchibbs

When I started supplementing thyroid I started with tyromax for around 6 weeks and had slowly worked up to just over 1 grain/day. I didn't see any tangible effects so I switched to the T3 which definitely had an effect on mood with temps improving slowly but later on.

Waking temp is 36.3 or 36.4 now and daytime peaks sometimes get to 37 but very rarely above.

Sleep is still not as good as I had hoped but is maybe slowly improving. I have some tyromix now so I'll try taking 1 drop of that for some additional T4.

When tested a while back my T4 was midrange so I always assumed conversion was compromised for me.

Thanks!

But to be honest, I think you made your first mistake when you stopped at 1 grain bc of not seeing tangible effects. Broda Barnes himself made it very clear that it often takes 2-3 months to see real benefits, and most of the time, it requires 2 grains/day to relieve hypo symptoms in adults. In his last chapter he cautions precisely against stopping thyroid too quickly, and/or expecting sudden benefits.

So I think you stopped too soon. I don't blame you, I made similar mistakes and only learned by failing and re-reading Ray's articles and Broda Barnes's book. I got that book in 2018 and I think I've read it 4-5 times since. I find I need to go back time and time again to really learn the information.

You should start again. (Make sure you have a good supply of thyroid so you don't run out in the process). Start at 0.5 grains, 2 weeks later up to 1 grain, then 2 weeks after that 1.5 grains, and then 2 weeks after that 2 grains. I promise you'll see an increase in waking temps. 36.4 is not a terrible waking temp, provided it's not artificially driven by stress hormones. (Taking aspirin or cypro before bed can help you see whether or not that is the case, if your temperature is lower the next morning, it's probably driven by cortisol/adrenaline)

TyroMix is a great product, because of the 2:1 ratio, but it absolutely needs to be taken in many divided doses whereas TyroMax or other NDT products can be taken once a day with food. Different advantages/disadvantages.

Summer is the perfect time to do this. If you start now, you'll have great temperatures by July. (36.6-36.8 is a healthy waking temperature)
 
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Spartan300

Spartan300

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I take temp on waking, after breakfast and most days late afternoon.

Thyroid is the only thing in the last 3 years to really influence temperatures. Waking temps are now 36.3 or 36.4, up from 35.9 or 36.

I'm pleased with effects on temp and mood but just a little confounded by the fat gain.

@mrchibbs I've not yet tried low, more frequent dosing using tyromix so I'll do that and then consider going back to NDT if that doesn't work out.
 

Andman

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Could be water weight too, i sometimes get bloated from T3 (esp when working out too much or too intense)
 

Goat-e

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Guys, I don't mean to sound condescending, because I've been there too, but be careful with thyroid therapy. It's doesn't work magically, it takes time, and it especially doesn't work if it's not done right. Start slow, and be meticulous. Even with a therapy done right, with slowly increasing amounts of thyroid, we're talking 2 months before reaching appreciable benefits. When taking a T3/T4 combo, it's crucial to start as low as 0.25-0.5 grains (about an eighth of a cynoplus tablet), and only increase slowly, every 2 weeks, if the basal temperature is not trending up.

This right here could save so many people so much trouble. But for some reason there's a temptation to start chucking thyroid around in a very non-consistent manner. It takes time, with a steady increase of dosage to get it right.
 

mrchibbs

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This right here could save so many people so much trouble. But for some reason there's a temptation to start chucking thyroid around in a very non-consistent manner. It takes time, with a steady increase of dosage to get it right.

What's funny is that it's very clear from Ray's writings and Broda Barnes's approach, but I think when we're sick we just jump head first into thyroid supplementation without understanding it, and then it can make things worse. I'm seeing a lot of people on this forum who have been members for years and years, and are posting about various issues, and when they haven't dealt with their thyroid.
 

Andman

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problem is there is lots of different advice regarding thyroid, see dr.wilson or lowe protocols for example
 

mrchibbs

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problem is there is lots of different advice regarding thyroid, see dr.wilson or lowe protocols for example

I may be biased, but I would trust Ray and Broda Barnes before any of those guys (I've looked at Wilson's protocol, some interesting ideas)
It is the Ray Peat Forum after all.

Ray doesn't have the answer to everything, but I'm fairly confident he's dead on with his perspective and experience on thyroid.

As they say K.I.S.S.
 
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Spartan300

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Yes indeed, many different ideas and I decided that I wasn't comfortable with the dosages in the Wilson protocol.

@Bart1 Liver issues is something I have thought about but blood tests (a while back) suggested no issues. I can post results if it would help. I have tried niacinamide & K2 but I don't seem to do well with them. Worse sleep/lower libido.
I tried milk thistle some time back but that seemed to be a proper libido killer. What else might be good for liver?
 

Bart1

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@Bart1 Liver issues is something I have thought about but blood tests (a while back) suggested no issues. I can post results if it would help. I have tried niacinamide & K2 but I don't seem to do well with them. Worse sleep/lower libido.
I tried milk thistle some time back but that seemed to be a proper libido killer. What else might be good for liver?

I myself also have liver issues but my liver panel is still "normal". I think caffein, vitamin D and K2 and aspirin are the most beneficial (I tried a lot, but that's just my experience). Taurine, glycine and methylene blue are other things as is eating beef liver or take beef liver pills.

I think the sources of the supplements are important as well. I take D and K2 from idealabs topically and they are better than anything I've taken before. Take taurine between meals, but not too late after a meal, so after 1 hour or something.

Btw I take double shot espresso's in the morning/mid day but just recently started with caffein pills and boy the pills are more magic then the coffee I can tell you
 

Jsaute21

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@Spartan300

Try diluting a drop in liquid and drinking just part of the volume.

Keep in mind the total production of T3 in your whole body is only about 1.5 mcg per hour, a substantial part of that will never see the circulation since its produced directly in the target tissues, the thyroid gland itself produces only about 0.25 mcg per hour. Now imagine that you take a 10 mcg pill, even if you take it with food and absorb it over several hours, it will still likely cause an unphysiological increase in circulating T3 levels that might be problematic, cause your body to inactivate it, shut down endogenous production or simply make you less responsive to T3.

Add to this that even if you are moderately hypothyroid you're still likely producing a lot of T3 yourself, and the optimal amount to take should be one that closes the gap between your deficient state and the optimal euthyroid T3 levels. If your T3 production is down to say 80% of normal, that means you have a deficit of about 0.3 mcg per hour. Taking a 10 mcg pill would then cause you to greatly overshoot the optimal balance.

I mean these are just some theoretical considerations, in practice its more complicated, some seem to tolerate and even do well with large doses of T3, but my impression is that even more do not have sustained good results with taking such high amounts of T3, and that may be because the doses commonly prescribed are not physiological, especially not if you are just mildly deficient.

You can look up Kenneth Blanchard who was an endocrinologist who found empirically that microdosing T3 produced the best results in his hypothyroid patients, although he did also combine with T4.
Looked into Ken Blanchard - seems bright. One oddity I noticed is that he said the average thyroid gland produces 6 mcg of T3 a day. I thought the thought was that we produce 1.5 mcg per hour ideally?
 

Collden

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Looked into Ken Blanchard - seems bright. One oddity I noticed is that he said the average thyroid gland produces 6 mcg of T3 a day. I thought the thought was that we produce 1.5 mcg per hour ideally?
1.5 mcg/hour is roughly the total throughout the body, including the T3 converted from T4 in various tissues. 6 mcg/day is from the gland itself.
 

lampofred

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If you take T3 without enough sugar/protein, then cortisol will rise, and high cortisol causes stomach fat.
 

Luke

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I feel much better stopping the t3/t4 and doing exercise every day. 28m.

Ray is and has always been sedentary. I personally believe that if you are able to exercise intelligently then your chances of needing thyroid drop significantly.

If you're well enough to exercise then look into doing moderate / heavy kettlebell snatches 5-7 days a week. Has been a game changer for me. I don't have the time to take temps and adjust dosages etc. It's too much of a distraction and unhealthy if you don't actually need it.
 
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Been applying Peat principals, diet and supplements for around 4 years and very little has made much difference.

Last bloodwork showed high androgens but I still experience poor sleep, libido, exercise tolerance and worsening body composition.

I'd held off because it seemed like a relatively drastic step but I finally decided to try supplemental thryroid.
T3 has improved mood and temps to degree but all other symptoms remain.

The biggest surprise is that I'm gaining belly fat quicker than I ever have.
My expectation based off reduced stress hormones was the exact opposite!

What might be happening here?
At 60mcg of pure T3 you are most likely running on Adrenaline. People that pump adrenaline during the night also put on weight on their bellies & lose muscle tissue. Your adrenaline overdrive will not show up on blood tests. It will show up on a hair test. For those that are interested in learning more with case studies link attached. Why Guess when you can TEST? https://ideal.clickfunnels.com/sales-page
 

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