Getting Enough Carbs/protein For "bulking"

[stackz07]

I feel like some of my hairloss is from working out hard and not getting enough calories and protein. Any tips on how to do this (getting enough while lifting) with while peating? I'm trying to avoid too much red meat as to not overload on iron. I've definitely gained some weight around the belly since I've started which I don't ever recall having before. Any tips/insight would be helpful!

 

[Gl;itch.e]

Hi Stackz. Flick me a private message if you want some help in this area. I have been into Ray for years and using his ideas to good effect with my own powerlifting/bodybuilding and helping others to do the same.

 

[brix]

Hi Stackz. Flick me a private message if you want some help in this area. I have been into Ray for years and using his ideas to good effect with my own powerlifting/bodybuilding and helping others to do the same.

this could be good info to share publicly, no?

I am interested as well.

 

[Hans]

I feel like some of my hairloss is from working out hard and not getting enough calories and protein. Any tips on how to do this (getting enough while lifting) with while peating? I'm trying to avoid too much red meat as to not overload on iron. I've definitely gained some weight around the belly since I've started which I don't ever recall having before. Any tips/insight would be helpful!

It could be low protein and carbs, but it could also be due to a micronutrients deficiency and having high-ish prolactin and TSH due to low vitamin D and calcium.
Sleep, relaxation, proper circadian rhythm is also very important.
Red meat is not bad if you balance the iron with other important micros such as copper, zinc, vitamin B2, vitamin A, vitamin E, etc. You won't know if you are too high or too low unless you get an iron panel.
Fat around the midsection is mostly due to cortisol, but this can be from poor sleep, low calories, lack of sunlight, stress, etc.
So we need more info, like how many calories are you actually eating and what does your diet consist of.

 

[Jack Earth]

It could be low protein and carbs, but it could also be due to a micronutrients deficiency and having high-ish prolactin and TSH due to low vitamin D and calcium.
Sleep, relaxation, proper circadian rhythm is also very important.
Red meat is not bad if you balance the iron with other important micros such as copper, zinc, vitamin B2, vitamin A, vitamin E, etc. You won't know if you are too high or too low unless you get an iron panel.
Fat around the midsection is mostly due to cortisol, but this can be from poor sleep, low calories, lack of sunlight, stress, etc.
So we need more info, like how many calories are you actually eating and what does your diet consist of.

i've never seen anyone suggest copper for gaining muscle before so curious why you suggest that?

 

[Hans]

i've never seen anyone suggest copper for gaining muscle before so curious why you suggest that?

I didn't actually suggest copper for building muscle in that context, but rather for regulating iron.

But now that you do bring it up, copper is given to livestock to accelerate growth and it's also anti-microbial and needed for energy production. So copper can help reduce excess gut bacteria, endotoxins, serotonin and inflammation and increase growth factors, such as GH and IGF-1.

Dynamic changes in copper homeostasis and post-transcriptional regulation of Atp7a during myogenic differentiation
"We demonstrate that Cu is required for both proliferation and differentiation of primary myoblasts."

I should add that I don't recommend just blindly supplementing copper but check your levels first and rather getting it from food.

 

[baccheion]

i've never seen anyone suggest copper for gaining muscle before so curious why you suggest that?

All associated minerals (zinc, copper, magnesium, etc) tend to increase testosterone/androgens. Molybdenum was the one shown to be associated with decreased levels (maybe due to excessively aiding excretion of other metals?). More relevant is maintaining the ratio from all sources (30 mg zinc + 4 mg copper, for example).

Environmental exposure to metals and male reproductive hormones: Circulating testosterone is inversely associated with blood molybdenum

Molybdenum lowers testosterone level

 

[Jack Earth]

I didn't actually suggest copper for building muscle in that context, but rather for regulating iron.

But now that you do bring it up, copper is given to livestock to accelerate growth and it's also anti-microbial and needed for energy production. So copper can help reduce excess gut bacteria, endotoxins, serotonin and inflammation and increase growth factors, such as GH and IGF-1.

Dynamic changes in copper homeostasis and post-transcriptional regulation of Atp7a during myogenic differentiation
"We demonstrate that Cu is required for both proliferation and differentiation of primary myoblasts."

I should add that I don't recommend just blindly supplementing copper but check your levels first and rather getting it from food.

Got it! Btw since OP tied in bulking with hair loss... have you ever read the poster elefanto posts on hair loss? His stack includes 100mg zinc picolinate daily to deplete copper. Can you let us know your thoughts on that?

 

[Hans]

Got it! Btw since OP tied in bulking with hair loss... have you ever read the poster elefanto posts on hair loss? His stack includes 100mg zinc picolinate daily to deplete copper. Can you let us know your thoughts on that?

Zinc appears to be lowering in people experiencing hair loss with copper slightly lower than normal or adequate.
I have not read all his work, but some of it long ago so can't remember everything. I think one of the major reasons he is benefitting for the zinc is because it aids in detoxification of heavy metals and is lowering his prolactin. If his copper was too high he would benefit from lowering that as well, but that is individual. Lots of people have messed up their copper levels by just taking lots of zinc without knowing their levels.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2895702/
"In case of zinc, the intake exceeded the recommended level in all three groups. The excessive intake of zinc interferes with the absorption of copper, possibly leading to copper deficiency and decreased HDL-cholesterol level, delayed would healing, skin dryness, and alopecia, and thus careful intake is needed"

That's why I recommend testing first before supplementing and then rather get it from food. But if the copper rich foods give you problems, then a supplement will be best, but just continuously keep an eye on both copper and zinc levels when supplementing either one alone or together.

 

[Jack Earth]

Zinc appears to be lowering in people experiencing hair loss with copper slightly lower than normal or adequate.
I have not read all his work, but some of it long ago so can't remember everything. I think one of the major reasons he is benefitting for the zinc is because it aids in detoxification of heavy metals and is lowering his prolactin. If his copper was too high he would benefit from lowering that as well, but that is individual. Lots of people have messed up their copper levels by just taking lots of zinc without knowing their levels.

Nutritional and antioxidant status by skin types among female adults
"In case of zinc, the intake exceeded the recommended level in all three groups. The excessive intake of zinc interferes with the absorption of copper, possibly leading to copper deficiency and decreased HDL-cholesterol level, delayed would healing, skin dryness, and alopecia, and thus careful intake is needed"

That's why I recommend testing first before supplementing and then rather get it from food. But if the copper rich foods give you problems, then a supplement will be best, but just continuously keep an eye on both copper and zinc levels when supplementing either one alone or together.

Thanks! A little off topic but can I get your advice on the most important things to get tested? Also what type of test, blood testing? I think this advice can benefit a lot people rather than taking things they don't need which can be counter productive.

 

[Hans]

Thanks! A little off topic but can I get your advice on the most important things to get tested? Also what type of test, blood testing? I think this advice can benefit a lot people rather than taking things they don't need which can be counter productive.

Sure. Well, it depends why you want to do tests. I assume it's to check to see if you're metabolism is running optimally or not.
Here are a couple:

• Thyroid panel - this test will just show you that there is something wrong, but not why.
• Parathyroid hormone - to check if your calcium intake is optimal as well as the calcium to phosphorous ratio.
• Vitamin D
• Serum serotonin - indicates mast cell degranulation and CO2 concentrations.
• Prolactin - it correlates good with serotonin and stress in general
• Pyruvate:lactate level - could indicate elevated free fatty acids and/or deficiency in vitamin B1, magnesium and biotin.
• Cholesterol & triglycerides - this will indicate general stress and micronutrient deficiency, such as copper for one.
• Iron panel
• CortisolHEA-S ratio

That's a lot of tests but should give you a pretty good idea where to focus on. Getting vitamin and mineral tests can also help a great deal but it's oftentimes inaccurate because some of the vitamins and minerals are intracellular.

 

[Jack Earth]

Sure. Well, it depends why you want to do tests. I assume it's to check to see if you're metabolism is running optimally or not.
Here are a couple:

• Thyroid panel - this test will just show you that there is something wrong, but not why.
• Parathyroid hormone - to check if your calcium intake is optimal as well as the calcium to phosphorous ratio.
• Vitamin D
• Serum serotonin - indicates mast cell degranulation and CO2 concentrations.
• Prolactin - it correlates good with serotonin and stress in general
• Pyruvate:lactate level - could indicate elevated free fatty acids and/or deficiency in vitamin B1, magnesium and biotin.
• Cholesterol & triglycerides - this will indicate general stress and micronutrient deficiency, such as copper for one.
• Iron panel
• CortisolHEA-S ratio

That's a lot of tests but should give you a pretty good idea where to focus on. Getting vitamin and mineral tests can also help a great deal but it's oftentimes inaccurate because some of the vitamins and minerals are intracellular.

Awesome! I'll look into that asap thank you