Germ-free Animals Have Autistic Like Behaviors And No Resistance To Stress

[Parsifal]

"Germ-free animals, which are bred and raised to be sterile and have no gut microbiota, have distinctly unhuman characteristics: disrupted sociability, autistic like behavior, poor cardiac output, atrophied organs (heart, liver, and brains), constant feeding behavior, and, ironically, poor gain of both lean muscle and body adipose."

From http://www.prescript-assist.com/inte.../commensal-gut-flora/
No references to studies here, but I could find this: Advances in Applied Microbiology

Or http://ijnp.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/15/ijnp.pyw020

 

[Tarmander]

When you say bred to be sterile. Do you mean sexually sterile in addition to sterile gut, or just sterile gut?

 

[Sucrates]

This is why I have my lab rats frolic outside and mix with the forest animals!

 

[Sucrates]

When you say bred to be sterile. Do you mean sexually sterile in addition to sterile gut, or just sterile gut?

Sterile GI system.

 

[Parsifal]

And there Ray seems to say that eating things that don't feed bacteria (antibacterial and undigestible fibers) is better and that starches and other fibrs always increase endotoxins...

I think that it can be confusing since this isn't what most research tend to show. What's important is balance of bacteria in the gut and diversity. If you eat fibers and don't have dysbiosis, it will feed the flora but not necessarily bad bacteria.

There are even studies showing that probiotics can cure SIBO! Probiotics could help combat small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in patients with gastrointestinal cancer - Gut Microbiota for Health
Or even Crohn's disease!
Doesn't align well with Ray's ideas.

If you don't feed the flora, you will get less diverse flora and opportunistic bacteria will colonize you, and you will get more and more allergies, intolerances to food and leaky gut. Don't forget that bacteria can also produce CO2.

I love Ray and I think that most of his ideas are almost perfect, but what he says regarding flora seems less and less realistic. Maybe I'm wrong though, just researching and trying things for myself.

 

[nograde]

"Germ-free animals, which are bred and raised to be sterile and have no gut microbiota, have distinctly unhuman characteristics: disrupted sociability, autistic like behavior, poor cardiac output, atrophied organs (heart, liver, and brains), constant feeding behavior, and, ironically, poor gain of both lean muscle and body adipose."

From http://www.prescript-assist.com/inte.../commensal-gut-flora/
No references to studies here, but I could find this: Advances in Applied Microbiology

Or http://ijnp.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/15/ijnp.pyw020

The last paper tries very hard to construct a beneficial case for gut bacteria but contradicts itself in so many ways, just look at the tables referenced (eg Alzheimer resistance, lol). And then this:

There is growing evidence indicating that the gut microbiota influences the aging process. Indeed, GF mice live longer than conventionally colonized control animals (Reyniers and Sacksteder, 1958; Gordon et al., 1966; Tazume et al., 1991). As GF mice are raised in sterile conditions, their longer life span is likely due to the absence of pathological infections. In humans, microbial diversity and stability decrease with age and are accompanied by cognitive decline (O’Toole and Claesson, 2010; Borre et al., 2014). These findings have prompted the idea that restoring microbial diversity in the elderly could improve general and mental health.

Wtf? Please reflect what they are saying here: "Germ free mice live longer hence germs must be beneficial for healthy aging"

Again, WTF!?

 

[Such_Saturation]

good ole switcharoo

 

[Peater Piper]

The last paper tries very hard to construct a beneficial case for gut bacteria but contradicts itself in so many ways, just look at the tables referenced (eg Alzheimer resistance, lol). And then this:

There is growing evidence indicating that the gut microbiota influences the aging process. Indeed, GF mice live longer than conventionally colonized control animals (Reyniers and Sacksteder, 1958; Gordon et al., 1966; Tazume et al., 1991). As GF mice are raised in sterile conditions, their longer life span is likely due to the absence of pathological infections. In humans, microbial diversity and stability decrease with age and are accompanied by cognitive decline (O’Toole and Claesson, 2010; Borre et al., 2014). These findings have prompted the idea that restoring microbial diversity in the elderly could improve general and mental health.

Wtf? Please reflect what they are saying here: "Germ free mice live longer hence germs must be beneficial for healthy aging"

Again, WTF!?

I'm not saying they're right, but their argument is pathological infection is likely responsible for reduced lifespan and cognitive decline. Pathological infection occurs in dysbiotic states. Diverse microbiota protect against dysbiosis, and thus pathological infection. Germ free mice are also free of pathological infection, but a completely sterile environment is impossible in the real world, thus you're left with either suppressing bacterial growth through diet/antibiotics or encouraging microbiota diversity through diet/probiotics. You can find examples of both approaches on this forum, with success stories and failures.

I think what's more interesting is that being raised in a sterile environment isn't all roses. There certainly seems to be some advantages, but it creates problems as well.

 

[Parsifal]

The tuning of the gut nervous system by commensal microbiota

Germ-free animals exhibit delayed gastric emptying, reduced intestinal transit, and a decreased expression of neuromodulators compared to conventional animals4-6. Moreover, the reconstitution of germ-free animals with certain bacterial strains or conventional flora from mice or humans restores the perturbed gut physiological functions4, 7.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306452216305127 Behavioural and neurochemical consequences of chronic gut microbiota depletion during adulthood in the rat.

http://www.gutmicrobiotaforhealth.c...-decimate-gut-bacteria-diversity-generations/