• Due to excessive bot signups along with nefarious actors we are limiting forum registration. Keep checking back for the register link to appear. Please do not send emails or have someone post to the forum asking for a signup link. Until the current climate changes we do not see a change of this policy. To join the forum you must have a compelling reason. Letting us know what skills/knowledge you will bring to the community along with the intent of your stay here will help in getting you approved.

GERD (acid Reflux) Is Caused By Inflammation, Not Stomach Acid

haidut

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,920
Location
USA / Europe
I have always been suspicious of the massive GERD drug market and the fact that despite them being the most prescribed drugs in the USA, the incidence of esophageal cancer (which they were designed to prevent) has been rising with scary speed. The raw data from the clinical trials on PPI drugs was kept secret for decades and only recently it was revealed that PPI drugs increase the incidence of atrophic gastritis, which is a precursor condition for stomach cancer. I have also posted several other studies about PPI causing kidney failure, osteoporosis, depression, etc.
This study actually strikes at the very purpose for using acid-reducing drugs. It found that the esophageal damage is not done by the "burn" effect produced from acid regurgitating back into the esophagus, but instead by in inflammatory reaction involving cytokines. While the study claimed that it was still stomach acid causing this inflammatory reaction, I am personally not convinced since the condition known as "atrophic gastritis" (that PPI drugs are known to cause) is known to involve exactly such cytokine overproduction and seems to be caused by the absence of acid, rather than overproduction. Time will tell what is the exact cause of this inflammatory reaction, but in the meantime things like glycine/gelatin, caffeine, aspirin, vitamin E, and avoidance of PUFA seem to be a lot more relevant to the treatment and prevention of GERD than taking the dreaded PPI.

Cytokine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Histologic Changes in the Esophagus in Patients With GERD
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160517191818.htm

"...In the current study, the researchers looked at patients at the VA North Texas Health Care System's Dallas VA Medical Center who had reflux esophagitis that had been successfully treated by medicines called proton pump inhibitors (PPIs). The researchers thought that GERD might redevelop if PPIs were stopped, providing an opportunity to observe the early changes of GERD. In 11 of 12 patients with reflux esophagitis, an injury to the lining of the esophagus, changes to the esophagus reoccurred after the PPIs were stopped. Importantly, the changes that re-occurred were not consistent with chemical burns. Rather, the findings supported the new idea that refluxed stomach acid stimulates the esophagus to make small proteins called cytokines, which then sets up the process of inflammation. "This study challenges some of the long-held beliefs about how gastroesophageal reflux damages the esophageal mucosa in patients with gastroesophageal reflux disease," said first author Dr. Kerry Dunbar, Associate Professor of Internal Medicine and staff physician with the Department of Gastroenterology at the Dallas VA Medical Center."
 

mangoes

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
450
Thanks Haidut, this is really interesting. I wonder if it applies to laryngopharyngeal reflux aswell or just normal GERD. I've been having some good results since trying hydrolysed gelatin recently, a lot less bloating overall and I have some TocoVit on the way so it'll be interesting to try that too.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,920
Location
USA / Europe
Thanks Haidut, this is really interesting. I wonder if it applies to laryngopharyngeal reflux aswell or just normal GERD. I've been having some good results since trying hydrolysed gelatin recently, a lot less bloating overall and I have some TocoVit on the way so it'll be interesting to try that too.

I think it applies to all refluxes where damage to the mucosa/lining is involved. The chemical burn theory is just too simplistic to account for that. The real question is what is causing this acid being able to go up and the answer is high cortisol from hypothyroidism. The cortisol weakens many muscles, including the ones lining the esophagus and it is not a mere coincidence that GERD and LPRD usually start in the 3rd decde of life and increase with age. This coincides with the slowign of metabolism and the increase in cortisol/DHEA and cortisol/testosterone ratios, which leads to generalized atrophy and muscle loss and weakness. A very old study showed that ingesting some pure T3 completely eliminated GERD symptoms for a few hours. If cortisol is the main cause, then things like emodin/cascara, pregnenolone, thyroid, vitamin A, zinc, etc (all substances lowering cortisol) should be therapeutic.
 
M

marikay

Guest
I think it applies to all refluxes where damage to the mucosa/lining is involved. The chemical burn theory is just too simplistic to account for that. The real question is what is causing this acid being able to go up and the answer is high cortisol from hypothyroidism. The cortisol weakens many muscles, including the ones lining the esophagus and it is not a mere coincidence that GERD and LPRD usually start in the 3rd decde of life and increase with age. This coincides with the slowign of metabolism and the increase in cortisol/DHEA and cortisol/testosterone ratios, which leads to generalized atrophy and muscle loss and weakness. A very old study showed that ingesting some pure T3 completely eliminated GERD symptoms for a few hours. If cortisol is the main cause, then things like emodin/cascara, pregnenolone, thyroid, vitamin A, zinc, etc (all substances lowering cortisol) should be therapeutic.

This is interesting. Many of the pregnancy websites name progesterone as the culprit causing GERD in pregnant women (who apparently experience it quite often). I thought this might be true as my GERD started happening when I took ProgestE for three months straight with no brake. And progesterone is known to relax muscles, so I figured this must be it. But now I realize that even when I refrain from taking ProgestE for a month or more, the GERD still comes back from time to time at night. So cortisol does seem to make sense. Thanks haidut. I'll work on the cortisol more now.
 

honeybee

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
331
Glycine cured my dog's reflux.
 

schaef34

New Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
4
This is interesting. Many of the pregnancy websites name progesterone as the culprit causing GERD in pregnant women (who apparently experience it quite often). I thought this might be true as my GERD started happening when I took ProgestE for three months straight with no brake. And progesterone is known to relax muscles, so I figured this must be it. But now I realize that even when I refrain from taking ProgestE for a month or more, the GERD still comes back from time to time at night. So cortisol does seem to make sense. Thanks haidut. I'll work on the cortisol more now.

Very interesting. For the first time ever, I recently started experiencing acid reflux symptoms to the point where I can't eat or drink anything without serious chest pain.

Three weeks ago I started taking Pansterone daily (pregnenolone +DHEA) and I had mostly chalked up this correlation as a coincidence. Perhaps it's something more.
 
M

marikay

Guest
Very interesting. For the first time ever, I recently started experiencing acid reflux symptoms to the point where I can't eat or drink anything without serious chest pain.

Three weeks ago I started taking Pansterone daily (pregnenolone +DHEA) and I had mostly chalked up this correlation as a coincidence. Perhaps it's something more.

I've never had a problem with pregnenolone or DHEA causing heartburn. I though it might be the progesterone (which is of course a different hormone entirely) but I don't think that was the real culprit now. I think @haidut is on to something with the cortisol connection.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,920
Location
USA / Europe
I've never had a problem with pregnenolone or DHEA causing heartburn. I though it might be the progesterone (which is of course a different hormone entirely) but I don't think that was the real culprit now. I think @haidut is on to something with the cortisol connection.

For the record, Ray seems to concur that cortisol is involved in GERD.
 

Dante

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
459
For the record, Ray seems to concur that cortisol is involved in GERD.
Though zinc carnosine is prescribed for atrophic gastritis, can it help with GERD ?( GERD and gastritis seem like mutually exclusive)
 

mangoes

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
450
Though zinc carnosine is prescribed for atrophic gastritis, can it help with GERD ?( GERD and gastritis seem like mutually exclusive)

I have laryngopharyngeal (silent) reflux every single day, I've used zinc carnosine off and on for a few months now and didn't really notice much of a difference.

It might work for typical GERD (with heartburn) though, silent reflux doesn't respond to PPIs and they use double the dose, so I think there's a different cause for the two types or something. Something I'm still trying to figure out lol.
 

Ashoka

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2015
Messages
204
If you have GERD, consuming things like caffeine, aspirin, gelatin, etc can be very difficult, in my experience. But I can only speak to my own case, and I think it depends on what's causing the reflux.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2016
Messages
785
Age
34
Location
Florida
Well i never had acid reflux before adding white sugar to my diet

Rice
Potatoes
Fruits
Chocolate
Never caused me acid reflux
 

Zpol

Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
907
Age
43
I have always been suspicious of the massive GERD drug market and the fact that despite them being the most prescribed drugs in the USA, the incidence of esophageal cancer (which they were designed to prevent) has been rising with scary speed. The raw data from the clinical trials on PPI drugs was kept secret for decades and only recently it was revealed that PPI drugs increase the incidence of atrophic gastritis, which is a precursor condition for stomach cancer. I have also posted several other studies about PPI causing kidney failure, osteoporosis, depression, etc.
This study actually strikes at the very purpose for using acid-reducing drugs. It found that the esophageal damage is not done by the "burn" effect produced from acid regurgitating back into the esophagus, but instead by in inflammatory reaction involving cytokines. While the study claimed that it was still stomach acid causing this inflammatory reaction, I am personally not convinced since the condition known as "atrophic gastritis" (that PPI drugs are known to cause) is known to involve exactly such cytokine overproduction and seems to be caused by the absence of acid, rather than overproduction. Time will tell what is the exact cause of this inflammatory reaction, but in the meantime things like glycine/gelatin, caffeine, aspirin, vitamin E, and avoidance of PUFA seem to be a lot more relevant to the treatment and prevention of GERD than taking the dreaded PPI.

Cytokine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Histologic Changes in the Esophagus in Patients With GERD
Surprising mechanism of acid reflux damage identified by researchers

"...In the current study, the researchers looked at patients at the VA North Texas Health Care System's Dallas VA Medical Center who had reflux esophagitis that had been successfully treated by medicines called proton pump inhibitors (PPIs). The researchers thought that GERD might redevelop if PPIs were stopped, providing an opportunity to observe the early changes of GERD. In 11 of 12 patients with reflux esophagitis, an injury to the lining of the esophagus, changes to the esophagus reoccurred after the PPIs were stopped. Importantly, the changes that re-occurred were not consistent with chemical burns. Rather, the findings supported the new idea that refluxed stomach acid stimulates the esophagus to make small proteins called cytokines, which then sets up the process of inflammation. "This study challenges some of the long-held beliefs about how gastroesophageal reflux damages the esophageal mucosa in patients with gastroesophageal reflux disease," said first author Dr. Kerry Dunbar, Associate Professor of Internal Medicine and staff physician with the Department of Gastroenterology at the Dallas VA Medical Center."

So theoretically, LLLT directed at the esophagus and stomach should inhibit the cytokine damage and inflammation. I got my LGS1 I'm going to do just this 3-5 min on esophagus every morning. I thought about taking MB before hand but I have reason to believe my serotonin is sky high also so I'll skip for now. I'm currently having a gastritis flare up so hopefully this can heal the damage. I'm surprised I cannot find much on LLLt or red light for gastritis and GERD, not even much anecdotal stuff out there.
 

raypeatclips

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
2,555
So theoretically, LLLT directed at the esophagus and stomach should inhibit the cytokine damage and inflammation. I got my LGS1 I'm going to do just this 3-5 min on esophagus every morning. I thought about taking MB before hand but I have reason to believe my serotonin is sky high also so I'll skip for now. I'm currently having a gastritis flare up so hopefully this can heal the damage. I'm surprised I cannot find much on LLLt or red light for gastritis and GERD, not even much anecdotal stuff out there.

Keep us posted!
 

Wagner83

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
3,285
So theoretically, LLLT directed at the esophagus and stomach should inhibit the cytokine damage and inflammation. I got my LGS1 I'm going to do just this 3-5 min on esophagus every morning. I thought about taking MB before hand but I have reason to believe my serotonin is sky high also so I'll skip for now. I'm currently having a gastritis flare up so hopefully this can heal the damage. I'm surprised I cannot find much on LLLt or red light for gastritis and GERD, not even much anecdotal stuff out there.
For the record I had used redlight in the mouth and on the neck before eating and a bit of meat went the wrong way. I coughed like crazy and it came out, it was scary.
 

Dolomite

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
585
The GERD I had seemed to be caused by some kind of fibrosis that may have been caused by inflammation or was causing the inflammation. I used some Defibron that helped after some initial pain unlike GERD pain. But I discontinued using it because of the changes in my gut. Last spring I started using bromelain and initially felt the same pains in my esophagus as when using Defibron but after 3 days or so the pain went away and so did the GERD. I had had GERD symptoms since a few years after menopause.
 

Nicole W.

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
516
This is interesting. Many of the pregnancy websites name progesterone as the culprit causing GERD in pregnant women (who apparently experience it quite often). I thought this might be true as my GERD started happening when I took ProgestE for three months straight with no brake. And progesterone is known to relax muscles, so I figured this must be it. But now I realize that even when I refrain from taking ProgestE for a month or more, the GERD still comes back from time to time at night. So cortisol does seem to make sense. Thanks haidut. I'll work on the cortisol more now.
I also developed GERD while taking Progest E. When I stopped using it the GERD went away. I always thought it was relaxation of esophageal muscles as well.
 

Similar threads

Top