Gelatinous Low Histamine CHICKEN Bone Broth AND dinner in under 3 Hours (with photos)

Philomath

Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
775
Age
54
Location
Chicagoland
Until I figure out something better, I will make a chicken wing post next (in the next few days), then posts on my gelatinous beef bone broth, my 5 minute no cream ice cream and my low histamine custard recipes. You're just gonna have to come find me for now. I am always cooking up something amazing :)
Eagerly waiting???
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
I am making my bone broth and wings right now so thought tovtake more detailed photos for this post while i am at it! Here is the bones, wing tips and necks I am using for 4.5 pounds of wings tonight. Usually I use the same amound of bones for one 2.5 pound pack of wings. My other pack is 2.12 pounds.
 

Attachments

  • 20210619_155402.jpg
    20210619_155402.jpg
    345.3 KB · Views: 58
  • 20210619_155438.jpg
    20210619_155438.jpg
    383.5 KB · Views: 56
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
Here is a pic of the scum that collects on the top. Skim it off and throw it out.
 

Attachments

  • 20210619_161751.jpg
    20210619_161751.jpg
    414.7 KB · Views: 39

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
@Rinse & rePeat Excellent sharing. It takes a lot of effort to share this.

I wonder if you ever compared the taste of the broth made from the chickens you use, to that of regular factory-farmed chicken. I could buy freshly slaughtered "native" chicken in our wet market. The native chicken has yellowish skin, and it is because of the fat in that chicken. The broth with the fat tastes far superior than the same coming from conventionally grown chicken. The native chicken costs more than twice that of the regular chicken, but the vendor always runs out of it mid-morning.

I've made my own chicken stock but I've never used the native chicken though. Although people who know what real chicken soup tastes swear by it. Another thing with fresh slaughter is that the blood is never frozen. It used to be chicken are sold unfrozen but cooled in iced. This always the chicken to "weep." Chefs would use such chicken for its better texture. Frozen chicken would taste different, but personally I haven't conpared them. I still find the chickens I make, whether broiled or steamed (like the ones in Chinese restos like Hainan Chicken) good enough for me for its tenderness. The days of conventional broiling in a regular oven are gone. They leave the chicken dry. Using convection ovens and air fryers (and cheaper turbo broilers) in place of the old oven leaves the "broiled" chicken moist.

If you're skimming the fat off, aren't you lessening the satisfaction of tasting the broth with its full flavor? I know the fat issue is a concern, but you're using PUFA free chicken already though.
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
@Rinse & rePeat Excellent sharing. It takes a lot of effort to share this.

I wonder if you ever compared the taste of the broth made from the chickens you use, to that of regular factory-farmed chicken. I could buy freshly slaughtered "native" chicken in our wet market. The native chicken has yellowish skin, and it is because of the fat in that chicken. The broth with the fat tastes far superior than the same coming from conventionally grown chicken. The native chicken costs more than twice that of the regular chicken, but the vendor always runs out of it mid-morning.

I've made my own chicken stock but I've never used the native chicken though. Although people who know what real chicken soup tastes swear by it. Another thing with fresh slaughter is that the blood is never frozen. It used to be chicken are sold unfrozen but cooled in iced. This always the chicken to "weep." Chefs would use such chicken for its better texture. Frozen chicken would taste different, but personally I haven't conpared them. I still find the chickens I make, whether broiled or steamed (like the ones in Chinese restos like Hainan Chicken) good enough for me for its tenderness. The days of conventional broiling in a regular oven are gone. They leave the chicken dry. Using convection ovens and air fryers (and cheaper turbo broilers) in place of the old oven leaves the "broiled" chicken moist.

If you're skimming the fat off, aren't you lessening the satisfaction of tasting the broth with its full flavor? I know the fat issue is a concern, but you're using PUFA free chicken already though.
I just love your questions yerrag! I spend more for my wings buying corn and soy free, but I did my homework and they do still feed some safflower oil, so yes the fat has to go. I justify the cost for the wing splurge by making that high quality expensive broth. Trust me the broth is plenty flavorful without the fat, like grandma makes. Let your add ins, like mushrooms, herbs and such take it further. Because the wings I buy aren't those skinny store versions, being instead more plump like "our Zena", they are so succulent, and the broiled "thick" skin crisps up so well! You don't miss the breading at all. I really don't endorse any chicken past these wings, they are perfect!
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
So here is the gelatinous chicken bone broth I made last night with my dinner wings. All the fat rose to the top and I just skim it off and throw it away!
 

Attachments

  • 20210620_123356.jpg
    20210620_123356.jpg
    303.1 KB · Views: 38
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
"Some types of cell damage are prevented almost as well by alanine and proline as by glycine, so the use of gelatin, rather than glycine, is preferable, especially when the gelatin is associated with its normal biochemicals. For example, skin is a rich source of steroid hormones, and cartilage contains “Mead acid,” which is itself antiinflammatory." -Ray Peat
 

AdR

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2021
Messages
78
Have you tried using a double boiler for this kind of thing? I know that proteins start to get overcooked fairly easily once they comprise a large enough proportion of the solution. I guess it must happen from prolonged, direct contact with the cooking vessel that is over a direct flame (happens when evaporating milk if you don't keep stirring). That may be the source of the histamine issues that come with long boiling times. I've heard magnesium (and probably other stuff) doesn't come out of bones easily unless they're boiled for a while, so maybe it might help to use a double boiler and go after it for a long time.

Also wild animals from areas without people (e.g. Northern Canada) may be nearly devoid of heavy metals (which makes the organ meats extremely benificial), would be shocked if they weren't extremely low in heavy metals actually. You can purchase meats from hunters in a lot of places, or even order them I think, and you will be consuming meat from animals that live a dignified life and unkowingly act out the will of their creator. I think that is the real recipe for health and the reason they can stay very warm in sub-zero temperatures.
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
Have you tried using a double boiler for this kind of thing? I know that proteins start to get overcooked fairly easily once they comprise a large enough proportion of the solution. I guess it must happen from prolonged, direct contact with the cooking vessel that is over a direct flame (happens when evaporating milk if you don't keep stirring). That may be the source of the histamine issues that come with long boiling times. I've heard magnesium (and probably other stuff) doesn't come out of bones easily unless they're boiled for a while, so maybe it might help to use a double boiler and go after it for a long time.

Also wild animals from areas without people (e.g. Northern Canada) may be nearly devoid of heavy metals (which makes the organ meats extremely benificial), would be shocked if they weren't extremely low in heavy metals actually. You can purchase meats from hunters in a lot of places, or even order them I think, and you will be consuming meat from animals that live a dignified life and unkowingly act out the will of their creator. I think that is the real recipe for health and the reason they can stay very warm in sub-zero temperatures.

Yes you are right Adr! Ray Peat says the longer the bone broth is cooked the more histamines the broth gets, and toxins release from the bones too as they break down. I really haven't gotten a gelatin rich broth from a chicken carcass, until making the wings like this. Adding skin and wing tips seems to be key. I cook my cold shrimps the same way, by boiling their shells for a half hour then adding in the shrimps to poach.

I have been making bone broth for years, 24 hour cooking, crock pot, oven, lid on, with vinegar, you name it. When Ray Peat said 3 to 4 hour cook and without vinegar I didn't think it possible for it to gelatinize until it happened by accident.

We had a heat wave last week in california and I had already soaked my oxtail bones so I had to finish them, and decided to do so in the oven and it left so much tough meat on the bones cooking for the same 4 hours with the lid on. Like you, I felt I had to find a better source for my meats. At first I did so because of the shortages last year, but I have stuck with my meat sources ever since. It does matter where the meat came from.
 

AdR

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2021
Messages
78
Yes you are right Adr! Ray Peat says the longer the bone broth is cooked the more histamines the broth gets, and toxins release from the bones too as they break down. I really haven't gotten a gelatin rich broth from a chicken carcass, until making the wings like this. Adding skin and wing tips seems to be key. I cook my cold shrimps the same way, by boiling their shells for a half hour then adding in the shrimps to poach.

I have been making bone broth for years, 24 hour cooking, crock pot, oven, lid on, with vinegar, you name it. When Ray Peat said 3 to 4 hour cook and without vinegar I didn't think it possible for it to gelatinize until it happened by accident.

We had a heat wave last week in california and I had already soaked my oxtail bones so I had to finish them, and decided to do so in the oven and it left so much tough meat on the bones cooking for the same 4 hours with the lid on. Like you, I felt I had to find a better source for my meats. At first I did so because of the shortages last year, but I have stuck with my meat sources ever since. It does matter where the meat came from.
If you are ever feeling adventurous, consider finishing your 3-4 hour broth and then transferring the bones and everything into a classic double boiler. I have a feeling that overcooked broth causes a histamine reaction because the broth itself has been damaged (by high heat and reduced capacity to disperse that heat as the stock thickens). You might be able to get an ever more satisfying broth by switching to a gentler cooking method after you have finished the initial extraction. The ancient Chinese were into this stuff. Thank you for your very nice and informative post! Here is a link to more info about this method: Why Double Boiling Is Good For Your Health
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
If you are ever feeling adventurous, consider finishing your 3-4 hour broth and then transferring the bones and everything into a classic double boiler. I have a feeling that overcooked broth causes a histamine reaction because the broth itself has been damaged (by high heat and reduced capacity to disperse that heat as the stock thickens). You might be able to get an ever more satisfying broth by switching to a gentler cooking method after you have finished the initial extraction. The ancient Chinese were into this stuff. Thank you for your very nice and informative post! Here is a link to more info about this method: Why Double Boiling Is Good For Your Health
Thank you for the link AdR! Yeah I wonder how those powdered gelatines can compare to my homemade and your gentler double-boiler method, being pulverized to a powder?
 

AdR

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2021
Messages
78
Thank you for the link AdR! Yeah I wonder how those powdered gelatines can compare to my homemade and your gentler double-boiler method, being pulverized to a powder?
Like comparing powdered milk to the actual thing I'm sure. Nasty stuff by comparison
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,494
I justed posted my step by step recipe for my Cream Off Mushroom soup using this gelatinous chicken broth!

 

Attachments

  • 20210622_173556.jpg
    20210622_173556.jpg
    477.8 KB · Views: 26

Philomath

Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
775
Age
54
Location
Chicagoland
Great new profile pic!
You inspired me! Not a lot of people around here are willing to show their faces. It will also force me to work harder at looking younger?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom