Gelatin Needs To Be Used As Religiously As Sugar

[Logan-]

Thank you both.

 

[haidut]

Also @haidut used Knox for a while if not mistaken though I think he said he had nausea from 128g a day but that's probably a bit too much lol

Anything more than 80g daily started giving me nausea unless taken with a decent dose of additional protein. So, I think 20g gelatin with each meal is probably a good cutoff for most people. Even 1tbsp (12g) with each meal has sufficient benefits.

 

[johnwester130]

Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

peat says 20 grams gelatin with a half pound steak,
which is 200 grams

 

[Kray]

gelatine is
9.3 % arginine

5.0 % lysine

I do about 60 grams of gelatine a day

That seems a reasonable amount. I believe I just read somewhere that collagen hydrolysate (Great Lakes- green can) has some advantages over straight gelatin. Have you heard anything about that?

 

[Kray]

The red can is from pasture raised cow hides. The new bone hydrolysate is from pasture raised cow bones. Bone broth powder is a new, booming market I guess is the reason Great Lakes is in the game now.[/QUOTE

 

[Kray]

Not sure if it makes much difference nutritionally, do you know?

 

[marcar72]

Not sure if it makes much difference nutritionally, do you know?

I'd stick with gelatin products made from hides. Ray Peat has mentioned that lead accumulates in the bones and suggested that bone broth be cooked for only 3 or 4 hours to minimize the lead leeching into the broth. I'd imagine that the bone broth powders are cooked to the max in order to maximize profit.

 

[Kray]

I'd stick with gelatin products made from hides. Ray Peat has mentioned that lead accumulates in the bones and suggested that bone broth be cooked for only 3 or 4 hours to minimize the lead leeching into the broth. I'd imagine that the bone broth powders are cooked to the max in order to maximize profit.

Yes! I remember now Peat's comments on that; and thanks for reminder about cooking times. Not even sure about liquid bone broths that have become more popular; if they overdo the powders, they probably do the same with the liquid. They're capitalizing on our being too lazy to make our own!

 

[Inaut]

Got your back bud @Cirion

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Here's the NOW brand I use https://amzn.to/2Wxgxhv
after try 6-7 different brands this one works the best.

Headache from Great lakes comes from the l-arginine. If you use a Green can, you have to use tiny teaspoons at a time.

 

[Kray]

Here's the NOW brand I use https://amzn.to/2Wxgxhv
after try 6-7 different brands this one works the best.

Headache from Great lakes comes from the l-arginine. If you use a Green can, you have to use tiny teaspoons at a time.

Checking the levels on GL Green, 7.7/serving arginine; GL Red 9.3/serving. Although NOW label doesn't break down the amino acid profile, it seems brands wouldn't vary much in their levels, so not sure why one particular brand would cause headaches more than another. Rather, collagen hydrolysate (green can) has lesser arginine than straight gelatin (red can).

 

[johnwester130]

That seems a reasonable amount. I believe I just read somewhere that collagen hydrolysate (Great Lakes- green can) has some advantages over straight gelatin. Have you heard anything about that?

it's just easier to use and digest

the benefits are the same

 

[Deleted member 5487]

it's just easier to use and digest

the benefits are the same

I'm under the impression that cooking gelatin down into collage(Peptides/Hydrolysate) breaks it down into extremely absorbable form.

So gelatin, like all proteins breaks down over hours, where collagen absorbs instantly in the stomach/upper intestine, and can cause some serious anxiety from tryptophan displacement and nasty headaches from large spikes in Arginine.

So I use Collagen in small amounts after meals, preferable in a slowly drunken solution. It has it's place in increasing bloodflow and lower serotonin.

 

[johnwester130]

I'm under the impression that cooking gelatin down into collage(Peptides/Hydrolysate) breaks it down into extremely absorbable form.

So gelatin, like all proteins breaks down over hours, where collagen absorbs instantly in the stomach/upper intestine, and can cause some serious anxiety from tryptophan displacement and nasty headaches from large spikes in Arginine.

So I use Collagen in small amounts after meals, preferable in a slowly drunken solution. It has it's place in increasing bloodflow and lower serotonin.

READ THE LABEL CAREFULLY!October 19, 2018
Package Type: Frustration-Free PackagingVerified Purchase
I did not read the label much past the ingredients and to find out that this product does indeed have in it the lysine and glycine advertised. I saw that it also had other amino acids, but I did not catch on to the fact that it has ZERO mgs of tryptophan. Tryptophan is an essential amino acid; the body cannot make it; it must be obtained through the diet. So, while my hunger was satisfied, and my skin and cartilage growing stronger and more elastic, during the time that I had one serving of this in my morning hot drink, and one serving of this in my lunchtime soup; my body began to show signs of tryptophan deficiency, since I was only having one tryptophan-bearing meal a day at suppertime. I was able to remedy this deficiency quickly by adding tryptophan and niacinamide tablets to restore the balance. But it would have been better to have properly informed myself in the first place, and to have made sure of a food or supplement source of tryptophan from the beginning. Everyone is different, and it may be that my body was made with a higher need for tryptophan than another’s body might have, but it is worth paying some attention when making a significant change in ones dietary patterns.

Otherwise, I am very pleased with this product. My skin and joints are happier. The product dissolves quite well, and lends a silkiness to the drinks and soups to which I add it. It is virtually tasteless, but it does rather flatten the taste of whatever one stirs it into, so I make the hot drink a little stronger, and I add lemon, chili, or other zingy flavors to the soups, to compensate for the flattening. It smells like gelatin, so I don’t add it to juices, because it reminds me too much of school-lunch Jello from my childhood. I like knowing that the product is made with care from high-quality ingredients.

 

[Cherry Garcia]

In terms of stats I am female, 39 and overweight since childhood and for the last couple of years had left knee joint bone on bone crunching that I only thought surgery could fix.

I have been using gelatin daily for over a month, I bought a bulk 1kg cheap brand of bovine gelatin, I was taking one heaped tablespoon (12-15g) in my hot cocoa before bed, the only benefit for the 1 month was my nails grew stronger (no more splitting/brittleness), and also with sleep, I would become immediately drowsy and drift off into a very deep sleep, the only problem was waking up was so difficult, I'd feel very groggy every morning and could barely hear my alarm. I almost gave up.

Then after doing more research just this week and landing on this forum (as of 4 days ago), I decided to up my intake to 40g a day, the first two days I got a massive migraine and almost quit but decided to push through as I wasn't sure if the migraine was from increase in gelatin or my PMS migraine.

So yesterday I went to the gym (I hadn't gone in a week), I was in shock, almost 5 years worth of daily bone on bone crunching in my left knee (I would experience pain/crunching when climbing stairs, elliptical, biking etc and I knew that only surgery would be able to solve it). After just 4 days at 40g daily gelatin (split 20g morning and 20g before bed), my knee is almost back to 100%, I almost couldn't believe it, in the past I would experience pain when doing squats and especially reverse lunges, I could never go beyond 2 sets due to pain, yesterday I did 4 sets easy!

The biggest test was climbing a flight of steps, I haven't been able to do that without my left knee crunching/pain again I was in shock, I climbed them just fine (with an ever so slight discomfort that was barely there, meaning with time I believe this should fix itself as well). I am still amazed and cannot believe the benefits in just afew days. Interestingly enough, at 40g a day (20g x 2 times a day), I do not have the grogginess feeling at night or in the morning, but I still get healthy deep sleep and able to wake up very fresh with no grogginess and able to jump out of bed with joint pains, inflammation whatsoever. I am so excited to continue at 40g daily and see what further benefits I may experience. (my initial reason for taking the gelatin was to see if it will help with regrowth of hair in my crown area as it has thinned out quite abit, so I'm still hopeful that things may change in that regard, if they do, i'll report).

(For the 40g daily gelatin I now instead make it in a jello form the night before and split it in two, to have a 20g worth slice in the morning and a 20g worth slice before bed.)

TL;DR: At 15g gelatin daily for a month, only saw improvement in nails. After just afew days of upping it to 40g of gelatin per day, my left knee cartilage is almost back to 100% after years of bone on bone crunching/pain when climbing stairs, there is no more crunch and no more pain. I am a gelatin convert for life.

 

[Cirion]

@Cherry Garcia Thanks for the post.

What is your jello recipe?

Also what is your total protein intake per day out of curiosity? (ie, I'm curious the ratio of your gelatin to total protein intake)

 

[Cherry Garcia]

@Cherry Garcia Thanks for the post.

What is your jello recipe?

Also what is your total protein intake per day out of curiosity? (ie, I'm curious the ratio of your gelatin to total protein intake)

I initially just googled homemade jello recipes and winged it from there. It is 40g gelatin powder, flavouring of choice (eg strawberry essence, vanilla essence etc), I use stevia to sweeten (as I don't consume sugar), then I use approx 1.5 cups of water. With that amount of water it comes out very tough, almost like a gummy bear but a softer version so I like it that way as it's chewy, or sometimes i'll add more water eg 3 cups for it to be more of jello/more wobbly consistency. I play around with the water amounts as it's depending on preference.

The most important part is to initially pour a small amount of hot water first into the powder and stir that for about a minute for it to hydrate and dissolve, then when you add the rest of the water in it mixes in much quicker/easier, I stir for another 30seconds to a minute, and add in flavouring and stevia then put in the fridge. In future i'm planning to make larger batches to last 2 days as the process can be cumbersome (even though it literally takes just 3 mins tops once your used to it, it can still be monotonous to do daily lol). Then I just cut the jello in two pieces for morning and evening. In future I'll probably double the quantity of everything and cut into 4 pieces instead to last two days.

To answer your question in regards to protein intake that's abit of a tough one, I used to track for years then got tired of it and quit. So as an estimate, I'd say I hardly ever go above 90g total protein per day, and on average maybe around 70g total protein. I'm planning to do the 40g gelatin daily for about a month....thereafter I shall probably level it out to 30g gelatin hopefully for life, because that would work out roughly to about a third or so of my daily total protein. As earlier mentioned at 15g gelatin I only experienced benefits of my nails getting stronger but no joint improvements, so i think 30g might be what works for me for life maintenance.

 

[Cirion]

Thanks, Interesting that you gravitated towards around 30% of total protein intake by gelatin, that seems to be the appropriate number from various sources I have read here for optimal benefits for every day life. And if you're doing 40g I may wish to do more, I expect the optimal amount would be a bit higher for a dude because I intake a lot more protein overall (often as high as 200 gram). So I guess that'd put me at 60+ gram, pretty much what I already was planning to do.

 

[Cherry Garcia]

Thanks, Interesting that you gravitated towards around 30% of total protein intake by gelatin, that seems to be the appropriate number from various sources I have read here for optimal benefits for every day life. And if you're doing 40g I may wish to do more, I expect the optimal amount would be a bit higher for a dude because I intake a lot more protein overall (often as high as 200 gram). So I guess that'd put me at 60+ gram, pretty much what I already was planning to do.

I was searching online for days on gelatin benefits but everywhere was talking of small amounts of 10g-15g max which for me was not helping. This was the only forum where I found several posts on high doses of gelatin and what it had done for them, and after reading Ray Peat's article (which I did just this Monday which is the same day I instantly upped my intake to 40g), it's the article and the various threads here on high dosing gelatin that gave me the guts to take the plunge and increase from daily intake from 15g to 40g.


Just another quick update, today was my 2nd day at the gym (now after 5 days of gelatin), the one thing I gave up a long time ago was trying to do incline on the treadmill due to my left knee crunch/pain, I could only ever reach incline level 3 out of 15 because beyond that my knee would hurt. Today I decided to test it out and was able to reach incline level 15 with no knee crunch and no pain and was able to keep it up for 10mins. I am still amazed at what increasing gelatin intake to 40g has done in just afew days.

If I sound overly excited, it's because I'm just so elated at what it's done for me so far. I honestly thought I'd be looking at surgery in another couple of years (which I wouldn't have even been able to afford anyway!). I had also in the past spent loads of money on glucosamine and chondroitin supplements but those didn't work for me either (I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm just saying they didn't work for *me* which was also disappointing). And what shocked me is that I just bought a cheapo bulk gelatin powder brand from the store (I'm in a different continent so there's no availability of the popular brands where I am). No wonder big pharma is so against all these alternative therapies, they'd go broke as no one would need meds or hospitals anymore!

 

[Cirion]

Excellent. Always good to hear success stories and validation of Ray Peat and his theories. Yeah I also don't see much effect from just one or two tablespoons of gelatin a day. Maybe that's why I have had a hard time being consistent with it, because I didn't notice a change one way or the other and figured eh, it doesn't even work, so I'd go days without having any at all. Your post has really given me motivation to dose it heavily. I also hate the consistency of gelatin when you just try to mix it in a glass with OJ (hint - it doesn't mix lol). Will try home made jello for sure.

Welcome to the forums BTW. You found the right place. I have probably done virtually every diet under the sun, and Ray Peat is the only guy that makes sense to me after every one I have listened to and tried to apply theories from. I'm still not well, but I still haven't been consistent on all his principles long enough (like gelatin for example). Restricting PUFA's for a long time is one of the other things I had not done very well, but am now. Yes, big pharma is just a big scam. They don't want to make us better. I also haven't had a whole lot of luck with supplements for the most part. Food generally trumps supplements for the most part.