Gelatin Needs To Be Used As Religiously As Sugar

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johnwester130

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Unless I'm missing something, the red bone collagen doesn't give a listing of the individual amino acids, unlike the hide red or hydrolyzed green. Wonder why. Anyway, from the looks of it, the red bone label advertises as helpful for osteoporosis. Wonder if it's just a different selling point. I thought whether bone or hide the AA profile was essentially the same.

**NEW** Bone Collagen Hydrolysate - 1 lb. can - Free Shipping*

it actually has less glycine and proline than normal gelatin

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Cirion

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Interesting thread. Are you sure it was the gelatin and not just increasing protein in general? Just curious.
 

tankasnowgod

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Interesting thread. Are you sure it was the gelatin and not just increasing protein in general? Just curious.

Increasing protein in general is good, but gelatin can do good things in higher doses. A quote from Haidut in a related thread, responding to someone who was eating 50g of gelatin a day and thinking of upping it to 70g - Glycine Powerfully Lowers Cortisol

Watch out for symptoms of nausea from too much gelatin. Back in revolutionary France it was tried as food for the poor and most people refused to eat more than 50g a day due to the overwhelming nausea it caused when eaten long term. Their health did improve, especially bone health and ability to do hard work, and the latter genuinely thrilled the nobility. But if you consider that attempts as a type of randomized uncontrolled trial, it seems that gelatin may have a sweet spot in dose. Not sure if it is 50g but when I tried eating nothing but gelatin as my protein I did get the nausea after a week of 128g (4 boxes of Knox gelatin) a day.
 

Cirion

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Well I just ordered some of the NOW gelatin that was suggested earlier in the thread and gonna try it soon. 50g a day I guess, since I probably need to take the max recommended dose both to increase my overall protein but also glycine a day.

Incidentally, Haidut's infamous 1500+T protocol involved 40-60g gelatin a day if I recall correctly.
 
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Runenight201

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Well I just ordered some of the NOW gelatin that was suggested earlier in the thread and gonna try it soon. 50g a day I guess, since I probably need to take the max recommended dose both to increase my overall protein but also glycine a day.

Incidentally, Haidut's infamous 1500+T protocol involved 40-60g gelatin a day if I recall correctly.

Damn dude you keep giving me old ideas that were good for my health that I scrapped for no good reason.

Knox gelatin + oj is a super tasty treat, I actually enjoy mushing on the goop in my mouth. Knox + soda is also good, they taste like sugar packed crystal cranial explosions.
 

yerrag

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Are there any references about how much gelatin you can get from gelatin sources such as animal bones, pork skin, and chicken legs?

I'm having a hard time getting information by my google searches. Nutrition data is very good at giving detailed nutritional information of most foods, but when it comes to gelatinous sources, they don't give any data.

Having this data gives me a way to analyze the cost of getting gelatin from these food sources. There is a bit of effort involved getting gelatin from food, of course, but I feel safer knowing I have a choice in my source of gelatin. For example, I could buy beef facial hide for about $4/kg, but how much gelatin is there in each kg. of hide? Let's say it's 50%, so I'd be ending up paying $8/kg of gelatin. How does this compare to the gelatin we buy from Great Lakes, for example? Amazon sells it at $21/lb or $46/kg. If the cost is indeed $8/kg getting gelatin from cow facial hide, this would amount to great savings. If gelatin content iwere 25% instead of 50%, $16/kg would still be a good deal. If I consumed 50g/day of gelatin, my cost would just be $0.80/day, or $24/month. Very affordable, considering its many benefits - improving both our internal (as a detoxifying agent and as a sleep inducer) as well as external health (nice skin and maybe hair), and as a result keeping us from chronic sickness and from needing to spend on "beautifying" creams etc. etc.

And I don't really need to pay for the extra processing needed to dry and pulverize the gelatin. And I don't need to pay for the packaging and the distribution and marketing cost for it. And I definitely don't want to be in the dark as to where the gelatin is sourced from. Would the gelatin contain plenty of heavy metals, or endotoxins. And what if the gelatin is made from putrid by-products of meat production that's been treated with ammonia and processing agents? I just don't want to pretend I'm taking in stuff that's supposed to make me more healthy where in reality it could be giving me a lot of toxic inputs.

Perhaps www.nutritiondata.com doesn't want to share this information, as it would lessen the market for powder gelatin.
 
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Cirion

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For those interested from the man RP himself

Although I pointed out a long time ago the antithyroid effects of excessive cysteine and tryptophan from eating only the muscle meats, and have been recommending gelatinous broth at bedtime to stop nocturnal stress, it took me many years to begin to experiment with large amounts of gelatin in my diet. Focusing on the various toxic effects of tryptophan and cysteine, I decided that using commercial gelatin, instead of broth, would be helpful for the experiment. For years I hadn't slept through a whole night without waking, and I was in the habit of having some juice or a little thyroid to help me go back to sleep. The first time I had several grams of gelatin just before bedtime, I slept without interruption for about 9 hours. I mentioned this effect to some friends, and later they told me that friends and relatives of theirs had recovered from long-standing pain problems (arthritic and rheumatic and possibly neurological) in just a few days after taking 10 or 15 grams of gelatin each day.

For a long time, gelatin's therapeutic effect in arthritis was assumed to result from its use in repairing the cartilage or other connective tissues around joints, simply because those tissues contain so much collagen. (Marketers suggest that eating cartilage or gelatin will build cartilage or other collagenous tissue.) Some of the consumed gelatin does get incorporated into the joint cartilage, but that is a slow process, and the relief of pain and inflammation is likely to be almost immediate, resembling the antiinflammatory effect of cortisol or aspirin.

Inflammation produces fibrosis, because stress, hypoxia, and inadequate supply of glucose stimulate the fibroblasts to produce increased amounts of collagen. In lungs, kidneys, liver, and other tissues, glycine protects against fibrosis, the opposite of what the traditional view would suggest.

Since excess tryptophan is known to produce muscle pain, myositis, even muscular dystrophy, gelatin is an appropriate food for helping to correct those problems, simply because of its lack of tryptophan. (Again, the popular nutritional idea of amino acids as simply building blocks for tissues is exactly wrong--muscle protein can exacerbate muscle disease.) All of the conditions involving excess prolactin, serotonin, and cortisol (autism, postpartum and premenstrual problems, Cushing's disease, "diabetes," impotence, etc.) should benefit from reduced consumption of tryptophan. But the specifically antiinflammatory amino acids in gelatin also antagonize the excitatory effects of the tryptophan-serotonin-estrogen- prolactin system.

In some of the older studies, therapeutic results improved when the daily gelatin was increased. Since 30 grams of glycine was commonly used for treating muscular dystrophy and myasthenia gravis, a daily intake of 100 grams of gelatin wouldn't seem unreasonable, and some people find that quantities in that range help to decrease fatigue. For a growing child, though, such a large amount of refined gelatin would tend to displace other important foods. The National Academy of Sciences recently reviewed the requirements for working adults (male and female soldiers, in particular), and suggested that 100 grams of balanced protein was needed for efficient work. For adults, a large part of that could be in the form of gelatin.

Emphasis added. 100 grams, wow that's a lot lol. This quote shows too that for those interested in lowering the anti metabolic estrogen/tryptophan/prolactin/serotonin system, gelatin is mandatory.
 
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Cirion

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30% of the protein content is what Peat recommends

Anyone know where peat says this? If this is right and you have say 200 gram of protein that means you need 60 gram of Gelatin, far more than most of us are having here I imagine.
 

Spartan300

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This is the problem for me. For example, using the Great Lakes products, 100g of gelatin/day is going to be very expensive.

Is there an easier way?
 

yerrag

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This is the problem for me. For example, using the Great Lakes products, 100g of gelatin/day is going to be very expensive.

Is there an easier way?
Exactly, using gelatin in large quantities isn't a practical proposition cost-wise. Buy cheap gelatin powder and you're intoxicated, buy the good ones and you're impoverished.

See if you can buy beef facial hide and make gelatin yourself. Make it into a flavorful jello. Similar to how a kind of German sausage, head cheeseis made from. Like how a regional Teochiu Chinese appetizer, pork leg jelly, is made (but with pork leg and skin). I'm sure other cultures have their own way to go about it.
 

Spartan300

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Thanks @yerrag , I'd have to see whether such things are available locally. Are you able to quantify how much gelatin your making/consuming this way?

Other thing for me is that regular gelatin dissolved in hot water causes me digestive problems which is why I've been considering hydrolysed collagen.
 

lampofred

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Is Knox gelatin safe to use in the long-run? Or is Great Lakes a must?
 

Cirion

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I'm using the NOW brand which it seems people here have said is fine and relatively cheap plus also mixes better (I use ZINT now which is expensive and annoying as it clumps a lot)
 

Cirion

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Also @haidut used Knox for a while if not mistaken though I think he said he had nausea from 128g a day but that's probably a bit too much lol
 

Logan-

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For those interested from the man RP himself



Emphasis added. 100 grams, wow that's a lot lol. This quote shows too that for those interested in lowering the anti metabolic estrogen/tryptophan/prolactin/serotonin system, gelatin is mandatory.

What is the source of the text you quoted from RP? Where did he say that?
 

Inaut

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"In some of the older studies, therapeutic results improved when the daily gelatin was increased. Since 30 grams of glycine was commonly used for treating muscular dystrophy and myasthenia gravis, a daily intake of 100 grams of gelatin wouldn't seem unreasonable, and some people find that quantities in that range help to decrease fatigue. For a growing child, though, such a large amount of refined gelatin would tend to displace other important foods. The National Academy of Sciences recently reviewed the requirements for working adults (male and female soldiers, in particular), and suggested that 100 grams of balanced protein was needed for efficient work. For adults, a large part of that could be in the form of gelatin."

Gelatin, stress, longevity
 

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