Gallbladder Issues--I Think I Passed A Gallstone

[narouz]

I think I passed a gallstone a couple of days ago.
Painful as hell.
At first I just thought I'd done something wrong with a food or drink or supplement,
and it was an intense stomach ache--
right in the center where the ribs meet.

Then it wouldn't let up,
and I was in a little bit o' hell for about 12 hours.

When I got home and laid down and put a hot pad on the the area and probed around,
I found that the pain had shifted to the right and just under the ribs.
I massaged it and continued the heat and after a few hours it eased up and went away.
Pretty much okay the next day

Gallbladder is a new area for me--haven't thought much about it.
Barely knew where it was, before I researched online during the attack.

There's a lot more I could say about the more general context of my health
and what was going on leading up to the attack (as I say...assuming I likely passed a gallstone...know there could be more).

Just wanted to post this and hear what some of you might have to say--
experiences, advice, etc.

 

[Mittir]

RP mentioned that cooked onion and garlic can cause gallbladder
spasm in hypothyroid people. How is your calcium intake?
Have you tested your PTH, Blood calcium and D3 status recently?
RP also said that PTH is involved in kidney and gallbladder stone.
Did you add any new supplement or food around the time you had
this experience? Any recent change in fat intake?

 

[narouz]

RP mentioned that cooked onion and garlic can cause gallbladder
spasm in hypothyroid people. How is your calcium intake?
Have you tested your PTH, Blood calcium and D3 status recently?
RP also said that PTH is involved in kidney and gallbladder stone.
Did you add any new supplement or food around the time you had
this experience? Any recent change in fat intake?

Hey Mittir!
Thanks for the ideas.

-not much if any garlic or onion, leading up to the spasm.
-I measured my all those factors (calcium, PTH, D3) , but...it was maybe 3 months ago. Nothing untoward at that point.

Now with the supplements/food changes, etc:
Yes.
I had been doing an anti-fungal regime for about a month--
Nystatin, Pau D'Arco, Undecylenic Acid, Caprylic Acid.
Also probiotics.
And I was experimenting at the same time with resistant starch--
http://www.gestaltreality.com/2014/02/27/resistant-starch-a-concise-guide/
--taking a couple of tablespoon of Unmodified Potato Starch.
Those anti-fungals I was taking in a fasting state, in the morning.

Now this is the one variable that sticks out even more, in my mind:
I had run out of the Thylexan T3, which was working great, and I was seeing good improvement on it too
over the last several months.
(I stopped the NDT I was taking about 4 months ago and switched to the T3 only.)
But the place I got the Thylexan from sorta went defunct for months,
and I was forced to switch to the BlueSky T3.
After about a week and a half of that I started feeling very hypo,
took some labs,
and high TSH was like 41 and T3 way way low.
That was about a week or so ago.
I went back on the NDT...started feeling better pretty quickly.
But then the apparent gallbladder spasm.

I know you don't put much stock in the antifungal angle,
but I've made major strides forward in recent months with it,
combined with also going to T3 only:
tongue is clean and pink,
chronic bad lower back/hip pain much improved,
and other stuff.

My rough theories are:
-maybe I went to hardcore with killing fungi, overloaded on toxins from debris, and somehow burdened liver and...gallbladder?
-got into a badly hypothyroid state at the same time, resulting somehow with the spasms/stone?
-as I cleared out fungi/biofilms, my organs are trying to crank back up...maybe gallbladder tried to expel sludge/stones?

I've been trying to figure out what the key lab tests would be to get some data points.
Also thinking would be great to get ultra-sound or MRI...this will take some scheming...

 

[lindsay]

I had gallbladder disease when I was 23 and had my gallbladder removed (big regret). I used to get intense pains (like you mentioned) when I would eat fats. It was so bad that I dropped down to 95 lbs (I'm 5'6", so this was severely underweight for m). I had been on a serotonin drug, and this was likely the cause of my gallbladder disease, but they diagnosed me with biliary dyskinesia - basically, weak gallbladder. If you get that scan done, it would show that the gallbladder is pumping weakly and that is what is actually causing the pain. But it's a very intense pain. This could be what you have.

I would suggest keeping Ox Bile on hand. It should help with the Gallbladder pains when they come on, as it should lighten the burden of both the gallbladder and the liver and keep things digesting. However, I've only used Ox Bile since having my gallbladder removed, so I'm not sure how it would help with someone who has a gallbladder. You can also try doing a gallbladder flush.

I read somewhere that low fat diets are actually not great for the gallbladder because they cause it to get lazy, but this could be totally unfounded.

 

[tara]

Don't suppose you identified the possible emerging specimen for confirmation?
Did you eat a big greasy meal before the pain episode?

 

[narouz]

I had gallbladder disease when I was 23 and had my gallbladder removed (big regret). I used to get intense pains (like you mentioned) when I would eat fats. It was so bad that I dropped down to 95 lbs (I'm 5'6", so this was severely underweight for m). I had been on a serotonin drug, and this was likely the cause of my gallbladder disease, but they diagnosed me with biliary dyskinesia - basically, weak gallbladder. If you get that scan done, it would show that the gallbladder is pumping weakly and that is what is actually causing the pain. But it's a very intense pain. This could be what you have.

I would suggest keeping Ox Bile on hand. It should help with the Gallbladder pains when they come on, as it should lighten the burden of both the gallbladder and the liver and keep things digesting. However, I've only used Ox Bile since having my gallbladder removed, so I'm not sure how it would help with someone who has a gallbladder. You can also try doing a gallbladder flush.

I read somewhere that low fat diets are actually not great for the gallbladder because they cause it to get lazy, but this could be totally unfounded.

I was just perusing your thread on the subject, lindsay:)

Yeah, I got some Ox Bile yesterday.
Also some Triphala (a traditional Ayurvedic formula).

I've noticed that same argument you touch on--lowfat being good? or bad?
Pretty sure I've heard Peat say some fat is needed and useful

The way the pain moved from center to the right--classic symptom it seems--
makes me think I likely passed a stone.
But I know I could well have more.

Btw, with the Ox Bile (it also has other digestive factors) and the Triphala--
one or both really helped my elimination.
I'd been feeling pretty constipated, even after the episode.
I've felt pretty good after it...even better than before,
but I have had a mild headachey-ness.

I'm pretty unmoored about what to eat,
but just from fumbling around on the web and researching
I'm avoiding cheese and egg and red meat and lots of fats and tomato.
Eating like Pho-style brothy soups with vegetables (beets) and chicken....

Thanks, lindsay!

 

[narouz]

Don't suppose you identified the possible emerging specimen for confirmation?
Did you eat a big greasy meal before the pain episode?

No, tara...although I did look at my poops.
I just wasn't in the mood to really deconstruct.

I did eat something perhaps significant the night before the episode
(which began at about 7 the next morning):
-first time I ever made Alfredo sauce: cream, parmesan cheese, garlic, butter (! hey!, I did have some garlic! forgot.)
with organic Einkorn pasta and broccoli

So yeah...pretty hardcore fatty.:)

 

[tara]

I just wasn't in the mood to really deconstruct.

Just wondering - I'd probably be the same. :)

So yeah...pretty hardcore fatty.:)

If that's a lot more fat than you regularly eat at once, I guess that's consistent with a spasm expelling something.

 

[narouz]

If that's a lot more fat than you regularly eat at once, I guess that's consistent with a spasm expelling something.

Well...I guess it's a certain kind of fatty meal, which I almost never eat.
I've been having trouble digesting tomato stuff lately,
and I was craving pasta,
and the Alfredo thing sounded really good.

Some gallbladder sites say cheese is a difficult for a struggling/attacking gallbladder.
Eggs--even more so.
And tomato.
I eat a lot of cheese, generally.
Quite a bit of egg, too.
Trying a different approach here in the aftermath...at least for a while.

 

[lindsay]

I got real bad gallbladder attacks from Olive Oil (in the form of hummus) one time. There used to be a really wonderful cafe where I lived, owned by a Jewish family. They made the best hummus, smothered in delicious real olive oil. I ate a bunch of it and that's when I really triggered my gallbladder pains and made me realize I had an actual problem. It felt like a knife stabbing me in the side.

I would continue to monitor your pain and accompanying symptoms. My friend was having gallbladder pains and went for a colonoscopy and endoscopy and she notice the pain went completely away after having her system flushed out. You might just need to take a good laxative and clear things out a bit to help relieve the pains.

Anyhow, Alfredo sauce would definitely send me into digestive mayhem (although, sometimes it's worth it!) I also eat a lot of cheese and don't have troubles with it, so long as I keep regular and take my Ox Bile.

Best wishes to you!! Hope you are feeling better soon

 

[Peata]

I didn't have gall stones, but tested at two different times with both overactive and underactive gall bladder. I noticed symptoms got worse according to time in my cycle, so there must be some estrogen component. No doubt serotonin too.

 

[narouz]

I didn't have gall stones, but tested at two different times with both overactive and underactive gall bladder. I noticed symptoms got worse according to time in my cycle, so there must be some estrogen component. No doubt serotonin too.

I was looking back in time at your other thread about gallbladder a few minutes ago, Peata.:)

When you say "tested," what lab tests did you do?

 

[Peata]

I was looking back in time at your other thread about gallbladder a few minutes ago, Peata.:)

When you say "tested," what lab tests did you do?

Two different HIDA scans. And two different ultra sounds.

 

[Peata]

BTW, my gallbladder loved apples when I was having problems with it. Some people drink apple juice or ACV.

 

[narouz]

BTW, my gallbladder loved apples when I was having problems with it. Some people drink apple juice or ACV.

Yeah, I've seen that recommended from several smart-seeming sources.
Also grapes and grape juice.
I bought some apples and a big jug of Whole Foods apple juice and have been drinking it.

When you would have an "attack,"
did it start in the center just under the ribs,
and then move right, tracking along under the ribs and maybe downward a bit...?
How long would one of your episodes last?

 

[Peata]

Yeah, I've seen that recommended from several smart-seeming sources.
Also grapes and grape juice.
I bought some apples and a big jug of Whole Foods apple juice and have been drinking it.

When you would have an "attack,"
did it start in the center just under the ribs,
and then move right, tracking along under the ribs and maybe downward a bit...?
How long would one of your episodes last?

I had an ache under the right rib, tucked up under. Sometimes it would hurt all along the right side, maybe a little into the back at times. Usually an ache, sometimes a "pinch", sting/burn, even pulsing at times. During the worst times, accompanied by flu-like symptoms - malaise, nausea, fatigue. Was bed-bound for about a month at one point.

 

[narouz]

I had an ache under the right rib, tucked up under. Sometimes it would hurt all along the right side, maybe a little into the back at times. Usually an ache, sometimes a "pinch", sting/burn, even pulsing at times. During the worst times, accompanied by flu-like symptoms - malaise, nausea, fatigue. Was bed-bound for about a month at one point.

Wow.
Looking back, do you think that was some kind of gallbladder-centered thing?

 

[Peata]

Wow.
Looking back, do you think that was some kind of gallbladder-centered thing?

Yes, it was. Almost had it taken out.

 

[SaltGirl]

Used to have bad issues with gall bladder over several years. Would get these excruciating pains and whenever I went to the doctors/ER they would just say I was constipated and send me off. We are talking about pain where I would have loved to die instead of suffering more, but in too much pain to commit suicide.

When they finally discovered it was gall stones they wanted to remove the gallbladder but I refused. For two years I used ACV and for the most part kept off the worst pains. It wasn't perfect though and I ended up in severe pain late last year. Then I discovered that for myself high vitamin C is very good at preventing pains. Got the idea after reading that female hormones tend to deplete vitamin C faster(usually related to HRT). After that I started taking 1-3 grams of Vitamin C if I felt like I was getting gallbladder issues and no issue. 2-3 times I was feeling a gallbladder attack coming big time and I took vitamin C and 15 minutes later I feel like something relaxed within my gallbladder area and the pain went away.

Now I always have on hand 1 gram Vitamin C capsules(keep them in a box for chewing gum) wherever I go and I have been relatively free of issues for a year now.

 

[Mittir]

RP thinks PTH should be at the lower end of normal. What was your PTH?
RP mentioned that low thyroid with high estrogen causes gallbladder
to not fully contract. That is one of the cause mentioned in a youtube video
on causes of gallbladdder attack and stones.I can not find the video
i watched yesterday. There is a higher rate of gallbladder problem in female and
particularly in females taking birth control pills. So, estrogen link is established.
Low thyroid means high estrogen and all other hormones and substance of
stress system. I think your 2nd guess is more applicable here.
1-2 weeks of hypothyroidism with TSH 40+ can causes all the
problematic hormones to rise and weaken your whole system.
That fatty meal was just the trigger.

I believe in SIBO and i use Peaty foods like coconut oil, carrot salad,
low dose antibiotic and low starch and fiber intake to manage that.
I can call it a " Anti Fungal protocol". Pau D'arco and Caprylic acid
seems peaty. But, raw starch can be problematic. We had this
discussion of resistant starch increasing endotoxin. I think i posted
a study showing raw potato starch increased endotoxin.
I can see how resistant starch improving bowel
movement by increasing water content and volume.
If endotoxin increase and hypoythoiroid state coincides
there is a risk of intense reaction. I used triphala
for a long time before peating and it was very helpful
for allergy. Quality of triphala seems to vary a lot.