Gallbladder Issues--I Think I Passed A Gallstone

[narouz]

Yes, it was. Almost had it taken out.

Has it been behaving lately?

 

[narouz]

RP thinks PTH should be at the lower end of normal. What was your PTH?
RP mentioned that low thyroid with high estrogen causes gallbladder
to not fully contract. That is one of the cause mentioned in a youtube video
on causes of gallbladdder attack and stones.I can not find the video
i watched yesterday. There is a higher rate of gallbladder problem in female and
particularly in females taking birth control pills. So, estrogen link is established.
Low thyroid means high estrogen and all other hormones and substance of
stress system. I think your 2nd guess is more applicable here.
1-2 weeks of hypothyroidism with TSH 40+ can causes all the
problematic hormones to rise and weaken your whole system.
That fatty meal was just the trigger.

I believe in SIBO and i use Peaty foods like coconut oil, carrot salad,
low dose antibiotic and low starch and fiber intake to manage that.
I can call it a " Anti Fungal protocol". Pau D'arco and Caprylic acid
seems peaty. But, raw starch can be problematic. We had this
discussion of resistant starch increasing endotoxin. I think i posted
a study showing raw potato starch increased endotoxin.
I can see how resistant starch improving bowel
movement by increasing water content and volume.
If endotoxin increase and hypoythoiroid state coincides
there is a risk of intense reaction. I used triphala
for a long time before peating and it was very helpful
for allergy. Quality of triphala seems to vary a lot.

Thanks a lot, Mittir.
I agree about the 2nd guess being most likely.

The resistant starch was an experiment which I'd just been doing for a week or two.
I really can't conclude anything about it
because so many other things were going on at the time--
most importantly the hypothyroidism.

I've really liked the triphala too.
I'd been using Cascara to try to improve elimination,
but it wasn't doing much--oddly.
Probably the hypothyroidism--so not so odd really.
But the triphala really moved things along, and very gently
(unless one takes too much).

 

[narouz]

Used to have bad issues with gall bladder over several years. Would get these excruciating pains and whenever I went to the doctors/ER they would just say I was constipated and send me off. We are talking about pain where I would have loved to die instead of suffering more, but in too much pain to commit suicide.

When they finally discovered it was gall stones they wanted to remove the gallbladder but I refused. For two years I used ACV and for the most part kept off the worst pains. It wasn't perfect though and I ended up in severe pain late last year. Then I discovered that for myself high vitamin C is very good at preventing pains. Got the idea after reading that female hormones tend to deplete vitamin C faster(usually related to HRT). After that I started taking 1-3 grams of Vitamin C if I felt like I was getting gallbladder issues and no issue. 2-3 times I was feeling a gallbladder attack coming big time and I took vitamin C and 15 minutes later I feel like something relaxed within my gallbladder area and the pain went away.

Now I always have on hand 1 gram Vitamin C capsules(keep them in a box for chewing gum) wherever I go and I have been relatively free of issues for a year now.

Thank you for that, SG!
I've been trying all sorts of weird stuff lately--by "weird" I guess I mean, mostly, UnPeatish.
Vitamin C falls under that kind of weird heading, for me.
But weirdo that I am lately, I'm up for it!

What kind/brand do you recommend?
The only kind I have a little experience with, long ago, was...I think it was called "Alacier" or something...?
It comes in the little packages as a fizz-making powder one adds to a beverage/water.

I guess my strategy, at this point, is
that I don't want to attempt something like one of those "Gallbladder Cleanses" ("here's one weird trick!..."),
because I don't know what's in there--in my gallbladder, I mean.
If there like 100 stones, or if there a giant stone...seems like a bad idea
(although I might be up for it at some point).

So...I am just wanting to kinda control any further attacks/spasms/stone passing, if possible,
for a while, as I investigate further.
Seems like you've used the Vit C effectively for that.
And did you say you also had some success with ACV, or was that someone else...?

We are talking about pain where I would have loved to die instead of suffering more, but in too much pain to commit suicide.

Hahahahaha.
Yeah, well...mine was pretty bad,
but my kidney stone experience was way more painful--though it came and went in about 4 hours.
Man was that terrible though.
I'm sure there are all degrees and kinds of gallbladder-related sufferings.
I'm glad you didn't take the easy way :>)

 

[narouz]

I got real bad gallbladder attacks from Olive Oil (in the form of hummus) one time. There used to be a really wonderful cafe where I lived, owned by a Jewish family. They made the best hummus, smothered in delicious real olive oil. I ate a bunch of it and that's when I really triggered my gallbladder pains and made me realize I had an actual problem. It felt like a knife stabbing me in the side.

I would continue to monitor your pain and accompanying symptoms. My friend was having gallbladder pains and went for a colonoscopy and endoscopy and she notice the pain went completely away after having her system flushed out. You might just need to take a good laxative and clear things out a bit to help relieve the pains.

Anyhow, Alfredo sauce would definitely send me into digestive mayhem (although, sometimes it's worth it!) I also eat a lot of cheese and don't have troubles with it, so long as I keep regular and take my Ox Bile.

Best wishes to you!! Hope you are feeling better soon :)

Thank you for that, linday.
You know, I've been eating a lot of hummus lately!--
and after years of not eating any.

I've been liking the Ox Bile,
but as I said the stuff I got has other digestive stuff like peppermint and papain, etc.
Do you take just Ox Bile?
Any brand you prefer?

 

[narouz]

Hey...here's an interesting data point:

A friend of mine got me to keep track of my urine pH.
So over the last month or two I've been tracking it fairly closely with those urine pH strips.
Amazingly steady (I'd never measured urine pH before) at about 5.75.

After the gallbladder episode,
it changed decidedly--
to about 6.25-6.50 over the course of these last few days

I don't know much at all about this world of urine pH.
My friend said 5.75 wasn't so good--should ideally be higher, like up in the mid-6's.
I believe Peat might've said similar...?

Any thoughts on this?
(I mean, one factor occurs to me--the ox bile and triphala supps.)

 

[tara]

that I don't want to attempt something like one of those "Gallbladder Cleanses" ("here's one weird trick!..."),
because I don't know what's in there--in my gallbladder, I mean.
If there like 100 stones, or if there a giant stone...seems like a bad idea

I've read stories of people being happy to have done some of those cleanses, but I also get the impression there can be some risk. I think it basically works by making the liver (and gall bladder?) go into spasm.
If it were me, I'd be trying to figure the thyroid metabolism, dissolve possible stones with apple juice or ACV every day, and try the vit-C for acute attacks as SaltGirl suggested, before considering the more intensive approach.

My friend said 5.75 wasn't so good--should ideally be higher, like up in the mid-6's.
I believe Peat might've said similar...?

Were your measurements at various times of day?
If they were all first thing in the morning, that might not be so representative. If they were various other times, I'd agree with your friend, based on both Reams and Peat's ideas.
Reams said ideal is 6.4, healing range is 6.2-6.8. (I think he also said that the higher end of that range may be safer if fighting cancer specifically.)
Peat said 24hr urine should probably be between 6.3 - 6.7.
There are a number of people who say more alkaline is better, but I'm inclined to trust Peat and Reams more on this.
Are you getting reasonable amounts of of calcium and magnesium?
I don't know, but one speculation could be that the oxbile helped you digest and use more of something you are eating, maybe released more useful alkaline minerals to you in some way? I don't know what triphala does.

 

[tara]

Used to have bad issues with gall bladder over several years.

Glad you made it through and solved that one!

 

[narouz]

Were your measurements at various times of day?
If they were all first thing in the morning, that might not be so representative. If they were various other times, I'd agree with your friend, based on both Reams and Peat's ideas.

Yes, at different times throughout the day, tara.
My first experiment measuring urine pH,
and I was surprised at how steady it was--I mean like 90% of time right at exactly 5.75.
And when it was different, that was rare, and only different by a slight amount.

Then it changed, and it has stayed changed,
though it has moved up and down, between 6 and 7, averaging about 6.25-6.50
Not quite as locked in at one number as it was previously for a month or two at 5.75

 

[tara]

Then it changed, and it has stayed changed,
though it has moved up and down, between 6 and 7, averaging about 6.25-6.50
Not quite as locked in at one number as it was previously for a month or two at 5.75

I'd count that as an improvement. Unless your subjective senses tell you otherwise.

 

[SaltGirl]

Thank you for that, SG!
I've been trying all sorts of weird stuff lately--by "weird" I guess I mean, mostly, UnPeatish.
Vitamin C falls under that kind of weird heading, for me.
But weirdo that I am lately, I'm up for it!

What kind/brand do you recommend?
The only kind I have a little experience with, long ago, was...I think it was called "Alacier" or something...?
It comes in the little packages as a fizz-making powder one adds to a beverage/water.

I guess my strategy, at this point, is
that I don't want to attempt something like one of those "Gallbladder Cleanses" ("here's one weird trick!..."),
because I don't know what's in there--in my gallbladder, I mean.
If there like 100 stones, or if there a giant stone...seems like a bad idea
(although I might be up for it at some point).

So...I am just wanting to kinda control any further attacks/spasms/stone passing, if possible,
for a while, as I investigate further.
Seems like you've used the Vit C effectively for that.
And did you say you also had some success with ACV, or was that someone else...?

I used to do ACV at first and for a while it worked great. The problem was that with time I felt like I had to use stronger and stronger mixes of ACV and felt like I was ******* up with my stomach(too much acid). Then one day it stopped working properly and the pain came back. Then I went scouring for all the tricks(eat ton of green apples etc) until I gave up and bought Vitamin C and used a high dose. Then voila, the pain went away 15 minutes later and I was rather dumbfounded by the experience. Especially since I tried high dose vitamin C before that I never felt any benefits from(in relation to other issues).

What worked for me was the NOW Vitamin C in capsules, not tablet form. Feels like the capsules don't need as much stomach acid to break down compared to the tablets and therefore works as they do. Not going to claim it is the best supplement or additive free, but I'd rather risk additives than get that pain again. To my surprise the vitamin C also helped a lot with edema, stomach bloating, and digestion which has made me a stringent Vitamin C fan. Basically a lot of health issues resolved to the better after I starting taking these capsules on a semi-regular basis. My guess is that the fruit we get back here in Iceland is just of shitty quality and not providing enough Vitamin C or something to that effect because I never had these benefits eating a lot of fruit.

The most common side effect is diarrhea when taking to high a dose of Vitamin C, but I discovered that my bowel tolerance has increased substantially with use. I have taken up to 3 grams in one dose(something that used to give me issues) and I have no problems.

Regarding Vitamin C supplements that you mix in water I have found mixed results. Too often they mix it with stuff like Sorbitol or xylitol and that is guaranteed to give me strange runs.

I would be very curious to see if this Vitamin C supplementation helps others. Just to see if this was a fluke with me or not.

 

[narouz]

I used to do ACV at first and for a while it worked great. The problem was that with time I felt like I had to use stronger and stronger mixes of ACV and felt like I was ******* up with my stomach(too much acid). Then one day it stopped working properly and the pain came back. Then I went scouring for all the tricks(eat ton of green apples etc) until I gave up and bought Vitamin C and used a high dose. Then voila, the pain went away 15 minutes later and I was rather dumbfounded by the experience. Especially since I tried high dose vitamin C before that I never felt any benefits from(in relation to other issues).

What worked for me was the NOW Vitamin C in capsules, not tablet form. Feels like the capsules don't need as much stomach acid to break down compared to the tablets and therefore works as they do. Not going to claim it is the best supplement or additive free, but I'd rather risk additives than get that pain again. To my surprise the vitamin C also helped a lot with edema, stomach bloating, and digestion which has made me a stringent Vitamin C fan. Basically a lot of health issues resolved to the better after I starting taking these capsules on a semi-regular basis. My guess is that the fruit we get back here in Iceland is just of shitty quality and not providing enough Vitamin C or something to that effect because I never had these benefits eating a lot of fruit.

The most common side effect is diarrhea when taking to high a dose of Vitamin C, but I discovered that my bowel tolerance has increased substantially with use. I have taken up to 3 grams in one dose(something that used to give me issues) and I have no problems.

Regarding Vitamin C supplements that you mix in water I have found mixed results. Too often they mix it with stuff like Sorbitol or xylitol and that is guaranteed to give me strange runs.

I would be very curious to see if this Vitamin C supplementation helps others. Just to see if this was a fluke with me or not.

Thank you, SG!
I will look into Vit C options.
When you did the ACV...how did you take it?
I mean: straight? or mix with water? any sweetener or anything? about how much?

Ah Iceland.
I sometimes look at the map and see it up there
and wonder what the hell it's all about...:)

 

[narouz]

I'd count that as an improvement. Unless your subjective senses tell you otherwise.

Cool!
I like to think things are improving.:)

 

[Mittir]

hypothyroid state causes loss of alkaline mineral and
body maintain it's serum alkalinity by excreting more
acidic element in the urine. You started NDT around the
time you had gallbladder attack. It is possibly NDT
improving your ability to retain alkaline minerals.

 

[narouz]

hypothyroid state causes loss of alkaline mineral and
body maintain it's serum alkalinity by excreting more
acidic element in the urine. You started NDT around the
time you had gallbladder attack. It is possibly NDT
improving your ability to retain alkaline minerals.

Well, I've been checking my urine for a month or two.
It had been very steady over that time--locked in at 5.75 like 90-95% of time,
including while I still was taking--to good effect--the Thylexan T3.
My thyroid labs looked good during that time.

Seems like to me
the pH change happened after the gallbladder episode.

So I'm wondering if maybe my gallbladder expelled something
in trying to regain its health,
got rid of a stone perhaps,
and now is functioning (at least a little) better...?

And that might explain the change in urine pH.

But...really, I don't know.
And actually...why would better gallbladder function make my urine pH more alkaline...?
Seems like that would be more under the influence of the kidneys.
But it is probably a lot more complicated than that.

Have you had any gallbladder problems, Mittir?

 

[SaltGirl]

Thank you, SG!
I will look into Vit C options.
When you did the ACV...how did you take it?
I mean: straight? or mix with water? any sweetener or anything? about how much?

Ah Iceland.
I sometimes look at the map and see it up there
and wonder what the hell it's all about...:)

Iceland is a weird cold place, at least in the winter. :S

I usually mixed ACV with water. Dilution would depend on how much ACV I thought I needed. Never sweetened it(didn't really hate the taste), but I always drank it through a straw to protect my teeth.

Personally I would start off with very diluted and then experiment with stronger solutions if you feel like it is too diluted. It's a bit learn as you go along.

 

[lindsay]

Thank you for that, linday.
You know, I've been eating a lot of hummus lately!--
and after years of not eating any.

I've been liking the Ox Bile,
but as I said the stuff I got has other digestive stuff like peppermint and papain, etc.
Do you take just Ox Bile?
Any brand you prefer?

Hummus is so good! I don't blame you Maybe you could make it yourself, to regulate the amount of Oil? Or you could use Coconut Oil - I believe it doesn't require bile for digestion.

If you like the Ox Bile brand you have, that's great! Especially with the added Peppermint and Papain. I tried peppermint oil on it's own and found that it did not help digestion much. Ginger Oil is amazing though - my husband and I both use it for settling the stomach when needed.

The brand I use is NutriCology. It has one additive I'm not sure about, and then L-Leucine, which I liked that about it. I usually divide the capsules in half (they are 500 mg and cheaper than the 125 mg capsules) and take the half with meals with fat. If I'm eating a big meal or a giant steak, I go for a whole capsule

I had problems digesting a lot of proteins (especially eggs) until the Ox Bile, so I'm very grateful for it! I hope it will help for you! What brand are you using, out of curiosity? I'm always interested in trying new brands.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I would suggest keeping Ox Bile on hand. It should help with the Gallbladder pains when they come on, as it should lighten the burden of both the gallbladder and the liver and keep things digesting. However, I've only used Ox Bile since having my gallbladder removed, so I'm not sure how it would help with someone who has a gallbladder. You can also try doing a gallbladder flush.

I read somewhere that low fat diets are actually not great for the gallbladder because they cause it to get lazy, but this could be totally unfounded.

I still have a gallbladder, and I used Ox Bile for a bit (I think in the time I was transitioning from Paleo to more Peatish), and while I didn't any major digestive issues, it did seem to make things better. I've been supplementing Taurine recently, which also has a similar function.

I think there is something to the low fat thing. I kinda tried to mimic the William Brown experiment for a week (eating skim milk and diary, juice, potatoes, and a bit of coconut oil), and started to feel constantly queasy a couple days in. After going back to eating normal, everything was fine within a day. I usually eat about 20-30% of calories from fat, and when it comes to digestion and taste, that seems to be about perfect, at least for me.

I don't think you need much more than that, however. I also saw that low fat thing on Mark's Daily Apple (I still pop over there from time to time), and I think he was using it to justify a "high fat ketogenic diet." I pretty much had to laugh. I remember eating super high fat breakfasts (you know, eggs, butter, bacon, heavy cream in coffee, maybe some cheese and avocado, but NO SUGAR CAUSE THAT CAUSES WEIGHT GAIN), and also feeling queasy for the first half of the day.

 

[Jennifer]

I'm sorry to hear about your gallbladder attack, narouz.

My cousin just had hers removed after a couple years of trying to hold onto it using ACV. Unfortunately, I didn't find out in time or else I would of suggested she look into having the stones broken up via ultrasound waves (Lithotripsy). Of course, it wouldn't have targeted the root cause, but at least she could of found relief without having to resort to surgery.

When I was having frequent gallbladder pains, Ray suggested belladonna to relax the gallbladder and some olive oil to trigger bile and the release of stones. I tried that for a while but was still having random pains so I took an herbal tincture of chanca piedra, also known as stone breaker, and so far so good. I haven't had an issue since. I don't know if that herb is Ray approved, though.

And +1 for Lindsay's ginger suggestion. Marshmallow root/leaf and ginger teas have all worked really well to calm an upset stomach when I've had one.

 

[narouz]

I'm sorry to hear about your gallbladder attack, narouz.

My cousin just had hers removed after a couple years of trying to hold onto it using ACV. Unfortunately, I didn't find out in time or else I would of suggested she look into having the stones broken up via ultrasound waves (Lithotripsy). Of course, it wouldn't have targeted the root cause, but at least she could of found relief without having to resort to surgery.

When I was having frequent gallbladder pains, Ray suggested belladonna to relax the gallbladder and some olive oil to trigger bile and the release of stones. I tried that for a while but was still having random pains so I took an herbal tincture of chanca piedra, also known as stone breaker, and so far so good. I haven't had an issue since. I don't know if that herb is Ray approved, though.

And +1 for Lindsay's ginger suggestion. Marshmallow root/leaf and ginger teas have all worked really well to calm an upset stomach when I've had one.

Hey Jennifer!

About that chanca peidra...
I don't think it is exactly the herb I was reading about a couple of days ago...
well, maybe it was, because seems like it was also referred to as "stonebreaker."
The one I was looking at has a book written about it
and it seems like part of the title is like "the controversial drug something something..."
I will see if I can find it and get back to you...I think I bookmarked it.

I think maybe my next step is somehow getting a look at what's going on in my gallbladder.
I've seen in some states you can buy an MRI for like $4oo.
That a lot...but it would be valuable information.
I don't know if ultrasound pictures would be better, or if they can be bought (without doctor).

I'm a fan of ginger too.
Specifically, at The Vitamin Shoppe stores
they sell these ginger candies which are very strong,
and the ingredients are ginger, tapioca starch, coconut oil, and sugar.
The company is called Prince of Peace; I think they are based in the Phillipines.

...

I just looked around for that herb I was telling you about, but can't find it now.
Actually, there were two herbs with "funny names" that were discussed as "stonebreaker" agents.
I think probably the chanca piedra was one of them,
and that other one I can't find was the one which was the subject of a book with the word "controversial" in the title.
But with the chanca piedra...that sounds promising.
I will explore.
Thanks!

 

[narouz]

Hummus is so good! I don't blame you :) Maybe you could make it yourself, to regulate the amount of Oil? Or you could use Coconut Oil - I believe it doesn't require bile for digestion.

If you like the Ox Bile brand you have, that's great! Especially with the added Peppermint and Papain. I tried peppermint oil on it's own and found that it did not help digestion much. Ginger Oil is amazing though - my husband and I both use it for settling the stomach when needed.

The brand I use is NutriCology. It has one additive I'm not sure about, and then L-Leucine, which I liked that about it. I usually divide the capsules in half (they are 500 mg and cheaper than the 125 mg capsules) and take the half with meals with fat. If I'm eating a big meal or a giant steak, I go for a whole capsule :)

I had problems digesting a lot of proteins (especially eggs) until the Ox Bile, so I'm very grateful for it! I hope it will help for you! What brand are you using, out of curiosity? I'm always interested in trying new brands.

The one I got actually has porcine bile extract--100mg per capsule.

Also, lindsay, if you are a big ginger fan,
you might like to hunt down some of the Prince of Peace ginger candies
I was telling Jennifer about in my post to her above.
I've taken them therapeutically for a good while now--
they seem to really help clean my tongue when it gets a coating
(which I take as a symptom of fungi else too).
I think I posted a study or article about ginger somewhere here on the forum
where they showed that ginger had an effectiveness against fungi on a par with Nystatin.