Fungi / Bacteria, Not Autoimmunity, Cause IBD (Chron's, UC) And IBS

fradon

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Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
605
I've seen a few people report they've been doing great for years on a ketogenic diet, many don't and crash, not sure what the differences between those are.

the two biggest things that cause keto diety failure are

1. weak adrenals

2 high cholesterol
 
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
165
the two biggest things that cause keto diety failure are

1. weak adrenals

2 high cholesterol
Cholesterol is not causative of problems or disease - hypothyroidism and polyunsaturated fats are (this fat type oxidizes cholesterol, making cholesterol harmful in respect to clogging of arteries.
 
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
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Polyunsaturated and saturated fats are very different from each others. The former prevents the oxidation of sugar (diabetes) by causing the mitochondria to destabilize when exposed to them. Now, saturated fats are chemically stable, acting as an antioxidant, according to Ray Peat's article on coconut oil. Saturated fats are also antifungal. So, if the type of fat is not revealed, then its validity is questionable.
 

fradon

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Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
605
Cholesterol is not causative of problems or disease - hypothyroidism and polyunsaturated fats are (this fat type oxidizes cholesterol, making cholesterol harmful in respect to clogging of arteries.
well high cholesterol can trigger uticaria that is the problem i dealing with many of keto diet have esperience similar problems as well as tinnitus. I can always tell when my cholesterol goes up cause my hearing goes.
 
J

jb116

Guest
well high cholesterol can trigger uticaria that is the problem i dealing with many of keto diet have esperience similar problems as well as tinnitus. I can always tell when my cholesterol goes up cause my hearing goes.
Correlation is not causation.
 
Joined
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Messages
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well high cholesterol can trigger uticaria that is the problem i dealing with many of keto diet have esperience similar problems as well as tinnitus. I can always tell when my cholesterol goes up cause my hearing goes.
Where is your evidence that cholesterol causes uticaria? Uticaria is an inflammatory reaction; cholesterol has nothing to do with it. Antihistamines are the best treatment; a good antihistamine is cyproheptadine.
 

YUPEATER

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Aug 22, 2019
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Ahh.. Thank you Charlie

I might try this with an antibiotic for my IBS. I have this sometimes especially when taking stimulating substances like coffee (and sometimes modafinil) in the morning. Even when I have eaten before..

Thx again.
 

Dave Clark

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Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,218
I posted a study recently that chronic alcohol consumption increases Candida overgrowth in the gut while simultaneously decreasing the number of benign bacteria.
Candida Overgrowth Is A Major Factor In (alcoholic) Liver Damage / Cirrhosis

Actually, the term "benign bacteria" is wrong as there is no benign bacteria in our gut. There are just less or more pathogenic types. The same applies to the fungi, with Candida being an example of a highly nefarious one.
This new study finds that high-fat diet (and by extension from the above study - alcohol) causes not only an imbalance in our microbiome (with a shift towards more pathogenic bacteria and fungi) but also allows the bacteria and fungi to enter into a highly effective symbiosis. This symbiosis likely leads to developing of a number of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) conditions like Chron's and ulcerative colitis (UC), as well as more benign (but more common) ones like IBS. The link between bacteria and Chron's is already considered highly causative and in some countries patients get treated with a high course of antibiotics.
Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis - Wikipedia

If the findings of the study below are true then the current immunosuppressive "treatments" for IBD such as Humira or Remicade are not just ineffective - they are the exact opposite of what should be administered and possibly criminally negligent. The study below proposes instead treating such patients with an anti-fungal, which I think can be made eve more effective by combining with a non-absorbable antibiotic like Rifaximin (already approved for treating SIBO and IBS).

http://www.dldjournalonline.com/article/S1590-8658(17)31015-0/fulltext
High-Fat Diet Changes Fungal Microbiomes and Interkingdom Relationships in the Murine Gut | mSphere
Gut fungi might be linked to obesity and inflammatory bowel disorders
"...High-fat diets may alter relationships between bacteria and fungi in mice’s intestines, contributing to obesity, researchers report October 11 in mSphere. In independent work, researchers report that a fungus teams up with two types of bacteria to fuel gut inflammation in people with Crohn’s disease. That work was summarized October 4 in Digestive and Liver Disease. Together, the studies are part of a growing body of research indicating that relationships between the bacterial and fungal kingdoms can affect health, says David Andes, a fungal biologist at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health in Madison. Andes wasn’t involved in either study."

"...Meanwhile, other researchers are investigating how a microbial triad might contribute to an irritable bowel syndrome. People with Crohn’s disease have an overabundance of Candida tropicalis fungus along with Escherichia coli and Serratia marcescens bacteria, say Christopher Hager and Mahmoud Ghannoum of Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland. When grown separately in lab dishes, the organisms “grew fine,” says Hager. “They formed nice little colonies. But when you mixed all three of them together, they just grew out of control. They form these intense, large robust biofilms.” Biofilms are structured microbial communities that can shield bacteria from antibiotics, making them hard to kill."

"...By itself C. tropicalis grows as a harmless budding yeast, Hager says. But in the presence of bacteria, the fungus stretches out into long filaments. Electron microscopy showed that E. coli fuse to the fungal growths. Meanwhile S. marcescens make protein strings that somehow stabilize the biofilm. That’s good news for the microbes: Their partnership allows them to outcompete loner bacteria and fungi. But biofilms are bad news for the gut. Mice harboring the three organisms developed intestinal inflammation, a symptom of Crohn’s disease and other bowel disorders."

"...Hager and Ghannoum propose that giving Crohn’s disease patients antifungal drugs and then adding beneficial fungi, such as S. cerevisiae, could create a healthier microbe balance in the gut."
Just curious, you state there are no benign bacteria in the gut, but I understand that the probiotic L. Reuteri will colonize in the small intestine and in the stomach, which is something other probiotics do not do. Colonization and Immunomodulation by Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC 55730 in the Human Gastrointestinal Tract
I know several of us on the forum are using this strain, and Davis suggests, as do some of the research I read, that reuteri does stay in the SI and stomach, which according to them helps reduce 'pathogenic' bacteria such as H.pylori, etc. Are you considering this a pathogenic bacteria based on your view of all probiotics? Otherwise, I am not sure why it would be considered pathogenic when it is opposes most known pathogenic bacteria. I know my gut has improved since using the L.Reuteri yogurt, designed by Davis from the BioGaia product.
 

baccheion

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Jun 25, 2017
Messages
1,774
Megadose vitamin D3 (300-500 IU/kg/day; 10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ K2 MK-4; 400-600 mg chelated magnesium) cured Crohn's for some in 90 days.
 

Christoph

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Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Messages
46
Location
Reno, NV
I'm glad to see there's a thread taking fungi seriously. Contrary to common wisdom, fungi are very stubborn and very difficult to clear. Internal fungi are probably as persistent as cancer. They never go away, but you can get them under control. My health and metabolic energy have come a long way since experimenting with anti-fungal therapies. I hope my experiments help somebody:

-- Really Good --

(1) Coconut Oil -- Yes, good old organic refined CO taken by the gob does kill GI fungus. 2 or 3 big heaping tablespoons per day caused GI upset with the net result of purging visible fungi. Moreover, 6-1 solution of CO with Limonene is great for skin fungi. Also add some extra virgin olive oil for flavor.

(2) Borax -- Yes the greatly disparaged borax regimen. I've taken as much as 1/4 teaspoon for 3 three weeks at a time. I'm now down to a lower level and only have borax as my taste dictates. (A borax note. Henkel, a German company, definitely owns 20 Mule Team. It's now on the box. The labeling used to state that the product was 100% borax. There are no longer any ingredients listed on the packaging. I would avoid 20 Mule Team and get some "organic" borax from Amazon.)

(3) Turpentine -- I'm talking "organic" gum spirits of turpentine that is distilled pine-tree resin (alpha-pinene and beta-pinene). Many terpenes are anathema to Candida and other fungi. I started turpentine first mixed with castor oil and then with sugar cubes. It's very effective. I've reduced the frequency of taking turpentine to 1 or 2 times a month.

(4) Limonene -- Another terpene, which provides the orange smell in orange peel, can be taken internally (gel caps available) or used on the skin against fungal overgrowth. This one smells and tastes great!

(5) Riboflavin, B2 -- This was the knock-out punch for me! When I added riboflavin to my protocol, my GI tract went into healthy smooth mode. My energy increased to a constant near-euphoric state. No other B vitamins please. 10+ mg riboflavin (daily) is all I'm currently taking.

(6) Lugol's Iodine -- Fungi seem to cultivate an environment that behooves the growth of pathogenic bacteria, and it may be that many of the symptoms associated with fungal overgrowth actually come from endotoxins, not mycotoxins. I used Lugol's and it cleared up my chronic bronchitis and helped ramp up my metabolic energy. Moreover, iodine is somewhat anti-fungal, while antibiotics are generally pro-fungal. Before resorting to an antibiotic, I now try high-dose iodine to see if it takes care of an infection.

(7) Red Light -- I have two of the Red Rush (RR) 360 units and do 6-minutes on each body side at ~1 meter distance. It definitely adds to metabolic energy and consequently helps me fight off infection and parasites. No comparison between a flood lamp bulb and the RR. When the RR arrived in the afternoon, my wife and I tried it and neither one of us could sleep that night. Very potent! The down side is the cost.

-- The Sketchy, The Bad, and The Ugly --

(1) Fluconazole (Diflucan) -- It helps but with a metabolic downside. You shouldn't take much and you shouldn't take it for very long. It interferes with cytochrome P450, which is difficult on the liver. I noticed cold hands while using Fluconazole. Moreover, it wasn't enough to cure my problems on its own.

(2) Nystatin -- For whatever reason, I was disappointed with Nystatin products. What's good is that Nystatin is not absorbed and flushes through the GI tract. In my case, it wasn't a solution. If you can get gobs of Nystatin, it's worth a try.

(3) Diets -- Don't get rid of Candida with a diet. You'll regret it! Whether it's a "Candida" diet, ketogenic, low-carb, or carnivore, you will not kill fungi this way. As Ray mentioned, when you starve fungi, they turn into their pathogenic form and send hyphae (like roots) into your intestines and colon. Now the problem is exponentially worse than before. Fasting, or in my case a ketogenic diet, eventually led to worse-than-ever Candida overgrowth.

(4) MCT -- I didn't find that a good MCT product was any more effective than the cheaper organic refined coconut oil.

(5) Sulfur -- Yes, I tried flowers of sulfur. It just made my gut gurgle and I smelled like rotten eggs. Nothing more to say.

(6) Carvacrol -- This is the terpenoid (an alcohol?) found in oregano oil, which makes oregano oil useful against fungi. Chemically, it's related to turpentine and limonene. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like it should be useful.

(7) Menthol -- Everyone knows the smell of menthol. It too is a terpenoid (an alcohol) and seems to be effective for inhaling and even mixed in small amounts with turpentine for oral use. Careful around the eyes. It's very irritating! I am experimenting with organic menthol crystals, which are lipophilic. Not definite results yet.

(8) Terpenoids -- My observation is that the plant kingdom produces all sorts of terpenoids as a protection against fungi, parasites, and bacteria. I'll be there are other non-toxic terpenoids that can be useful against fungal overgrowth.
 

Dave Clark

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,218
I'm glad to see there's a thread taking fungi seriously. Contrary to common wisdom, fungi are very stubborn and very difficult to clear. Internal fungi are probably as persistent as cancer. They never go away, but you can get them under control. My health and metabolic energy have come a long way since experimenting with anti-fungal therapies. I hope my experiments help somebody:

-- Really Good --

(1) Coconut Oil -- Yes, good old organic refined CO taken by the gob does kill GI fungus. 2 or 3 big heaping tablespoons per day caused GI upset with the net result of purging visible fungi. Moreover, 6-1 solution of CO with Limonene is great for skin fungi. Also add some extra virgin olive oil for flavor.

(2) Borax -- Yes the greatly disparaged borax regimen. I've taken as much as 1/4 teaspoon for 3 three weeks at a time. I'm now down to a lower level and only have borax as my taste dictates. (A borax note. Henkel, a German company, definitely owns 20 Mule Team. It's now on the box. The labeling used to state that the product was 100% borax. There are no longer any ingredients listed on the packaging. I would avoid 20 Mule Team and get some "organic" borax from Amazon.)

(3) Turpentine -- I'm talking "organic" gum spirits of turpentine that is distilled pine-tree resin (alpha-pinene and beta-pinene). Many terpenes are anathema to Candida and other fungi. I started turpentine first mixed with castor oil and then with sugar cubes. It's very effective. I've reduced the frequency of taking turpentine to 1 or 2 times a month.

(4) Limonene -- Another terpene, which provides the orange smell in orange peel, can be taken internally (gel caps available) or used on the skin against fungal overgrowth. This one smells and tastes great!

(5) Riboflavin, B2 -- This was the knock-out punch for me! When I added riboflavin to my protocol, my GI tract went into healthy smooth mode. My energy increased to a constant near-euphoric state. No other B vitamins please. 10+ mg riboflavin (daily) is all I'm currently taking.

(6) Lugol's Iodine -- Fungi seem to cultivate an environment that behooves the growth of pathogenic bacteria, and it may be that many of the symptoms associated with fungal overgrowth actually come from endotoxins, not mycotoxins. I used Lugol's and it cleared up my chronic bronchitis and helped ramp up my metabolic energy. Moreover, iodine is somewhat anti-fungal, while antibiotics are generally pro-fungal. Before resorting to an antibiotic, I now try high-dose iodine to see if it takes care of an infection.

(7) Red Light -- I have two of the Red Rush (RR) 360 units and do 6-minutes on each body side at ~1 meter distance. It definitely adds to metabolic energy and consequently helps me fight off infection and parasites. No comparison between a flood lamp bulb and the RR. When the RR arrived in the afternoon, my wife and I tried it and neither one of us could sleep that night. Very potent! The down side is the cost.

-- The Sketchy, The Bad, and The Ugly --

(1) Fluconazole (Diflucan) -- It helps but with a metabolic downside. You shouldn't take much and you shouldn't take it for very long. It interferes with cytochrome P450, which is difficult on the liver. I noticed cold hands while using Fluconazole. Moreover, it wasn't enough to cure my problems on its own.

(2) Nystatin -- For whatever reason, I was disappointed with Nystatin products. What's good is that Nystatin is not absorbed and flushes through the GI tract. In my case, it wasn't a solution. If you can get gobs of Nystatin, it's worth a try.

(3) Diets -- Don't get rid of Candida with a diet. You'll regret it! Whether it's a "Candida" diet, ketogenic, low-carb, or carnivore, you will not kill fungi this way. As Ray mentioned, when you starve fungi, they turn into their pathogenic form and send hyphae (like roots) into your intestines and colon. Now the problem is exponentially worse than before. Fasting, or in my case a ketogenic diet, eventually led to worse-than-ever Candida overgrowth.

(4) MCT -- I didn't find that a good MCT product was any more effective than the cheaper organic refined coconut oil.

(5) Sulfur -- Yes, I tried flowers of sulfur. It just made my gut gurgle and I smelled like rotten eggs. Nothing more to say.

(6) Carvacrol -- This is the terpenoid (an alcohol?) found in oregano oil, which makes oregano oil useful against fungi. Chemically, it's related to turpentine and limonene. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like it should be useful.

(7) Menthol -- Everyone knows the smell of menthol. It too is a terpenoid (an alcohol) and seems to be effective for inhaling and even mixed in small amounts with turpentine for oral use. Careful around the eyes. It's very irritating! I am experimenting with organic menthol crystals, which are lipophilic. Not definite results yet.

(8) Terpenoids -- My observation is that the plant kingdom produces all sorts of terpenoids as a protection against fungi, parasites, and bacteria. I'll be there are other non-toxic terpenoids that can be useful against fungal overgrowth.
One you didn't mention was ozone therapy which is effective at controlling and even eradicating fungal issues, depending on what form of therapy, how much, and at what strength. Home rectal insufllations require over 40 gamma setting in order to kill mold, fungus, etc. Check out Promolife if you want/need more info.
 

Christoph

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Messages
46
Location
Reno, NV
One you didn't mention was ozone therapy which is effective at controlling and even eradicating fungal issues, depending on what form of therapy, how much, and at what strength. Home rectal insufllations require over 40 gamma setting in order to kill mold, fungus, etc. Check out Promolife if you want/need more info.
Absolutely correct. I’ve dabbled with cheaper ozone gear but never spent the money to get the real deal. My list, except for red light, provides the cheaper approaches.
 

Goobz

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
302
Location
Australia
I'm glad to see there's a thread taking fungi seriously. Contrary to common wisdom, fungi are very stubborn and very difficult to clear. Internal fungi are probably as persistent as cancer. They never go away, but you can get them under control. My health and metabolic energy have come a long way since experimenting with anti-fungal therapies. I hope my experiments help somebody:

-- Really Good --

(1) Coconut Oil -- Yes, good old organic refined CO taken by the gob does kill GI fungus. 2 or 3 big heaping tablespoons per day caused GI upset with the net result of purging visible fungi. Moreover, 6-1 solution of CO with Limonene is great for skin fungi. Also add some extra virgin olive oil for flavor.

(2) Borax -- Yes the greatly disparaged borax regimen. I've taken as much as 1/4 teaspoon for 3 three weeks at a time. I'm now down to a lower level and only have borax as my taste dictates. (A borax note. Henkel, a German company, definitely owns 20 Mule Team. It's now on the box. The labeling used to state that the product was 100% borax. There are no longer any ingredients listed on the packaging. I would avoid 20 Mule Team and get some "organic" borax from Amazon.)

(3) Turpentine -- I'm talking "organic" gum spirits of turpentine that is distilled pine-tree resin (alpha-pinene and beta-pinene). Many terpenes are anathema to Candida and other fungi. I started turpentine first mixed with castor oil and then with sugar cubes. It's very effective. I've reduced the frequency of taking turpentine to 1 or 2 times a month.

(4) Limonene -- Another terpene, which provides the orange smell in orange peel, can be taken internally (gel caps available) or used on the skin against fungal overgrowth. This one smells and tastes great!

(5) Riboflavin, B2 -- This was the knock-out punch for me! When I added riboflavin to my protocol, my GI tract went into healthy smooth mode. My energy increased to a constant near-euphoric state. No other B vitamins please. 10+ mg riboflavin (daily) is all I'm currently taking.

(6) Lugol's Iodine -- Fungi seem to cultivate an environment that behooves the growth of pathogenic bacteria, and it may be that many of the symptoms associated with fungal overgrowth actually come from endotoxins, not mycotoxins. I used Lugol's and it cleared up my chronic bronchitis and helped ramp up my metabolic energy. Moreover, iodine is somewhat anti-fungal, while antibiotics are generally pro-fungal. Before resorting to an antibiotic, I now try high-dose iodine to see if it takes care of an infection.

(7) Red Light -- I have two of the Red Rush (RR) 360 units and do 6-minutes on each body side at ~1 meter distance. It definitely adds to metabolic energy and consequently helps me fight off infection and parasites. No comparison between a flood lamp bulb and the RR. When the RR arrived in the afternoon, my wife and I tried it and neither one of us could sleep that night. Very potent! The down side is the cost.

-- The Sketchy, The Bad, and The Ugly --

(1) Fluconazole (Diflucan) -- It helps but with a metabolic downside. You shouldn't take much and you shouldn't take it for very long. It interferes with cytochrome P450, which is difficult on the liver. I noticed cold hands while using Fluconazole. Moreover, it wasn't enough to cure my problems on its own.

(2) Nystatin -- For whatever reason, I was disappointed with Nystatin products. What's good is that Nystatin is not absorbed and flushes through the GI tract. In my case, it wasn't a solution. If you can get gobs of Nystatin, it's worth a try.

(3) Diets -- Don't get rid of Candida with a diet. You'll regret it! Whether it's a "Candida" diet, ketogenic, low-carb, or carnivore, you will not kill fungi this way. As Ray mentioned, when you starve fungi, they turn into their pathogenic form and send hyphae (like roots) into your intestines and colon. Now the problem is exponentially worse than before. Fasting, or in my case a ketogenic diet, eventually led to worse-than-ever Candida overgrowth.

(4) MCT -- I didn't find that a good MCT product was any more effective than the cheaper organic refined coconut oil.

(5) Sulfur -- Yes, I tried flowers of sulfur. It just made my gut gurgle and I smelled like rotten eggs. Nothing more to say.

(6) Carvacrol -- This is the terpenoid (an alcohol?) found in oregano oil, which makes oregano oil useful against fungi. Chemically, it's related to turpentine and limonene. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like it should be useful.

(7) Menthol -- Everyone knows the smell of menthol. It too is a terpenoid (an alcohol) and seems to be effective for inhaling and even mixed in small amounts with turpentine for oral use. Careful around the eyes. It's very irritating! I am experimenting with organic menthol crystals, which are lipophilic. Not definite results yet.

(8) Terpenoids -- My observation is that the plant kingdom produces all sorts of terpenoids as a protection against fungi, parasites, and bacteria. I'll be there are other non-toxic terpenoids that can be useful against fungal overgrowth.

Great post, thank you. I have had problems with mould and fungi in the past and will be looking to implement some of these. Though in my case it’s been from being exposed to mould via the air rather than my GI tract I think, so problems with sinuses etc.

Butyrate is another good option for candida in the GI tract i believe.
 

Christoph

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Messages
46
Location
Reno, NV
Great post, thank you. I have had problems with mould and fungi in the past and will be looking to implement some of these. Though in my case it’s been from being exposed to mould via the air rather than my GI tract I think, so problems with sinuses etc.

Great point. Apparently, GI tract fungi have adapted to our "hot" metabolism, which is not the case for skin and sinus fungi. Going back to early childhood (before I can remember), I started with sinus problems and I was dosed heavily with broad-spectrum antibiotics, which I believe eventually led to my GI problems. So I had been suffering both from chronic sinus and skin fungus as as well as in the GI tract. I always wondered why antibiotics never gave me diarrhea. I hypothesize that it's because my microbiome was already destroyed before taking them.

Butyrate is another good option for candida in the GI tract i believe.

Can you elaborate on butyrate usage for GI fungal overgrowth? Could you describe your experience with butyrate? I'm always looking for additional effective treatments. Fungi seem to be highly evolved survivors and you need to hit them with multiple treatments over a prolonged period to really clean things up.
 

Lewistx

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
56
Does this explain why my toe nails are infected and my digestive disorders remain what should I tell the doctor since antibiotic s seem to be the approach
 

Goobz

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
302
Location
Australia
Can you elaborate on butyrate usage for GI fungal overgrowth? Could you describe your experience with butyrate? I'm always looking for additional effective treatments. Fungi seem to be highly evolved survivors and you need to hit them with multiple treatments over a prolonged period to really clean things up.

All Ive read are some somewhat related snippets:

- that candida and other yeasts are killed or inhibited by butyrate
- that butyrate is usually produced by balanced gut bacteria, but low levels are seen in IBD, Parkinsons, etc
- supplementing butyrate can encourage growth of these normal species
- that sodium butyrate is used as a part of treatment for these illnesses, along with "mold detox"

There was a form of slow release sodium butyrate that apparently made sure the butyrate made it to the colon, as opposed to other forms. I havent tried it yet myself.
 
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