Fungal Infection... The Missing Link?

[Sweatshop Toad]

Greetings fellow Peaties. First time long time.

I've been lurking this fine forum for the better half of a decade and adhered to a fairly cookie cutter Ray Peat inspired diet, yet could never stem the overwhelming amount intestinal distress that so plagued my life. Constant brain fog, constipation, low libido, numerous food sensitivities... just about everything that can go awry with a human gut, despite very rarely straying from the list of Peat-approved foods.

More recently however, I stumbled upon /x/'s "Cosmic Death Fungus General" threads and after a week of adhering to the protocol (NAC, Oregano, Black Cumin Seed Oil, Pau d'arco) plus a low carb candida diet I'm feeling substantially better aside from the fungal dieoff symptoms.

Is it possible a good portion of this community also suffers from undiagnosed fungal overgrowth which prevents their gut from healing? Perhaps tailoring a Peat-inspired anti-fungus diet could be in order, although with the way they thrive on carbohydrate I'm not sure how that would work. I've also experimented with Ray's recommendations of turpentine and flowers of sulphur and while they yield short term benefit, they unfortunately aren't suitable for long term consumption.

If anyone else struggles with this issue I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

[GTW]

Or fight fire with fire. Benign fungus such as blue and white mold cheese, miso, etc.

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

Or fight fire with fire. Benign fungus such as blue and white mold cheese, miso, etc.

I’ve tried s. boulardii many times in the past but unfortunately it just makes me bloated and constipated. That coupled with an intense intolerance to anything fermented (plus dairy) makes any kind of cheese a no go.

My diet for the past couple years has been ground beef, white sugar (the only carbohydrate I tolerate) and broccoli to prevent scurvy as I’ve yet to find a vitamin C source that doesn’t make me ill.

Last night I tried frying some white rice in coconut oil to refill my glycogen stores after a few days of low carb, and when I woke up this morning I felt as rotten as before I’d begun the antifungal protocol.

Could the fungi have rebounded that quickly after one starchy meal, or is it more likely my body is responding to a coconut sensitivity?

 

[GTW]

You can't sterilize your gut. That would be nearly impossible and can only end badly. Recognize that you need a symbiotic balance of microbes and the dietary nutrients to feed them, aka prebiotics.
If you have a dysfunctional gut microbiome you have to nudge it in the right direction. Don't be so quick to categorize foods. That presumes a level of understanding even gastroenterologists and nutritionists have only in their dreams. Hedge your bets. Cut and try.
Look into South Asian/Ayurveda foods as a systemic method.
Butyrate is essential for the immune cells lining the gut. Healthy microbiome and diet will generate butyrate. It's in butter, so named. Butter has little milk protein, ghi none.

 

[Mauritio]

Greetings fellow Peaties. First time long time.

I've been lurking this fine forum for the better half of a decade and adhered to a fairly cookie cutter Ray Peat inspired diet, yet could never stem the overwhelming amount intestinal distress that so plagued my life. Constant brain fog, constipation, low libido, numerous food sensitivities... just about everything that can go awry with a human gut, despite very rarely straying from the list of Peat-approved foods.

More recently however, I stumbled upon /x/'s "Cosmic Death Fungus General" threads and after a week of adhering to the protocol (NAC, Oregano, Black Cumin Seed Oil, Pau d'arco) plus a low carb candida diet I'm feeling substantially better aside from the fungal dieoff symptoms.

Is it possible a good portion of this community also suffers from undiagnosed fungal overgrowth which prevents their gut from healing? Perhaps tailoring a Peat-inspired anti-fungus diet could be in order, although with the way they thrive on carbohydrate I'm not sure how that would work. I've also experimented with Ray's recommendations of turpentine and flowers of sulphur and while they yield short term benefit, they unfortunately aren't suitable for long term consumption.

If anyone else struggles with this issue I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

I agree.

I'm trying slippery elm and undecylenic acid atm .

 

[Kram]

I've had pretty terrible candida overgrowth most of my life and am close to finally having it completely eliminated. What I have found most beneficial is using systemic enzymes combined with anti-fungals and anti-bacterials. I have been using BiOptimizers products (All) most recently and think they have been most effective. They are also great for digestion.

When dealing with a fungal infections or parasites, it's also important to detox heavy metals. I have been using fulvic & humic acid, cilantro and citrus pectin for this.

 

[golder]

I've had pretty terrible candida overgrowth most of my life and am close to finally having it completely eliminated. What I have found most beneficial is using systemic enzymes combined with anti-fungals and anti-bacterials. I have been using BiOptimizers products (All) most recently and think they have been most effective. They are also great for digestion.

When dealing with a fungal infections or parasites, it's also important to detox heavy metals. I have been using fulvic & humic acid, cilantro and citrus pectin for this.

I’m still fighting this battle. Inspired that you’ve managed to get it under control. Other than the Biooptimizer product, what other systemic enzymes and anti-fungal/bacterials have you used? Thanks for your input!

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

I've had pretty terrible candida overgrowth most of my life and am close to finally having it completely eliminated. What I have found most beneficial is using systemic enzymes combined with anti-fungals and anti-bacterials. I have been using BiOptimizers products (All) most recently and think they have been most effective. They are also great for digestion.

When dealing with a fungal infections or parasites, it's also important to detox heavy metals. I have been using fulvic & humic acid, cilantro and citrus pectin for this.

Thanks for the tips, Kram. How do you prepare your cilantro? I’ve suspected I have mercury toxicity myself and have been boiling cilantro then drinking the water as Ray has recommended for leafy greens, but so far haven’t noticed much of an effect.

What else has helped you eliminate your candida?

 

[Kram]

I’m still fighting this battle. Inspired that you’ve managed to get it under control. Other than the Biooptimizer product, what other systemic enzymes and anti-fungal/bacterials have you used? Thanks for your input!

Yeah, I've been trying to get rid of it for the past 6+ years. Literally had gallons of this crap throughout my body.

I have tried just about everything this point. Most anti-fungals work pretty well like oregano, coconut oil, clove, methylene blue, pau d'arco etc. but I think black walnut hull is probably the best and, for me, it has the least amount of side effects. Methylene blue gives me serotonin symptoms, Pau d'arco crashed my estrogen etc. But again, combining different antifungals with enzymes is most effective as the enzymes help break-up biofilms. That's why I like BiOptimizers enzyme product and their parasite cleanse product.

I also use garlic, rosemary and other herbs on my food.

 

[Jam]

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Fungal Infection/liver Problems After A Batch Of Hallucinogenic Mushrooms

Hello everyone, Any suggestions for clearing up a fungal infection from a bad batch of mushrooms and a bad diet for years? I am taking currently doing the peat protocol(if you can call it that) including methylene blue with the occasional ingestion of flowers of sulphur. I've also been eating...

raypeatforum.com

Potassium iodide is most certainly highly effective, it is also: safer, cheaper, and more available than synthetic azole constructs. This does not negatively-affect the thyroid, and you can even buy it from ebay.com.

Lehrer, R. I. "Antifungal effects of peroxidase systems." Journal of bacteriology (1969)​

The reason the iodide ion (I⁻) works is likely because of the enzyme neutrophil myeloperoxidase, which converts in into the hypoiodite ion (IO⁻) using a hydrogen peroxide (H₂O₂) cosubstrate and a heme cofactor. The second greatest risk factor for candidiasis—and for all yeast & fungal infections in general—is neutropenia, or having low concentrations of circulating neutrophils. Studies on rats both consistently and plainly demonstrate the importance of neutrophils, and more elaborate genetic knockout studies prove myeloperoxase accounts for nearly all of this activity. Injections of only myeloperoxidase, the bare enzyme itself, have been shown to greatly enhance in vivo yeast killing potential and greatly promote survival.

​

Wright, C. D. "Candidacidal activity of myeloperoxidase: therapeutic influence of the enzyme in vivo." Infection and immunity (1985)​

Although neutrophil myeloperoxidase can convert the more ubiquitous chloride ion (Cl⁻) into hypochlorite (ClO⁻) in an analogous manner: the iodide product is always shown more effective in in vitro combat assays, those pinning Neutrophils vs Fungi. Upon incubation with sodium or potassium iodide, yeast cell wall chitin has analytically been found iodinated after such neutrophil/fungi interactions—ostensibly by myeloperoxidase acting through a hypoiodide (IO⁻) intermediate. The efficacy of hypoiodide relative to the other hypohalide products (ClO⁻, BrO⁻, SCNO⁻) can be understood by noting: (1) hypoiodite is second only to hypothiocyanite (SCNO⁻) in oxidizing potential; (2) the kinetic rate of formation is the greatest for hypoiodide (IO⁻), meaning that more of this can be formed per unit time than any other; (3) iodide is most lipophilic of the group, enhancing its affinity for yeast cell membranes; (4) hypotiodite's conjugate acid has the highest Pka of the series, meaning that most will actually exist in the protonated hypoiodous acid form (HIO). [The neutral electronic charge of hypoiodous acid (HIO) means that it's the only hypohalide that is not repelled by the negatively-charged yeast cell membrane.] Thus: hypoiodous acid (HIO) is the most effective product of myeloperoxidase, the most effective enzyme against yeast that—in turn—also happens to be one secreted by the most effective immune cell type against same.

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Lehrer, Robert I. "Leukocyte myeloperoxidase deficiency and disseminated candidiasis: the role of myeloperoxidase in resistance to Candida infection." The Journal of clinical investigation (1969)​

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Aratani, Yasuaki. "Severe Impairment in Early Host Defense against Candida albicans in Mice Deficient in Myeloperoxidase." Infection and immunity (1999)​

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Neutrophil myeloperoxidase has consistently been shown to enhance the survival of several species of small furry animals. These effects of course not limited to rodents, and potassium iodide—i.e. the preferred myeloperoxidase substrate—has clinically been used for human yeast/fungal infections for centuries. Potassium iodide is still used in countries having less pharmaceutical presence, and between 1–3 grams per day are often given with very few side effects; that observed in 5% of cases can be attributed to an increased concentration fungal 'die-off' metabolites. This certainly works in humans, and massive tumors of Basidiobolus haptosporus have been veritable dissolved in this manner:

Thotan, Sundeep Payyanur. "Subcutaneous Phycomycosis—Fungal Infection Mimicking a Soft Tissue Tumor: A Case Report and Review of Literature."Journal of tropical pediatrics (2009)​

Even high doses do not appreciably effect thyroid hormone concentrations because the substantial volume of the extracellular space compartment, and iodide's (I⁻) natural affinity for it, prevents plasma iodide (I⁻) concentrations from undergoing large fluctuations. Iodide of course naturally ionically-associates with polysaccharides, perhaps why plasma levels remain stable after even gram-sized doses. Extracellular glycogen and fatty membranes act analogously to a 'buffer,' or a 'ballast,' in this scenario; toxicity only appears to occur at levels over 20 grams per day. And perhaps surprisingly, side effects from über-megadose KI has more to do with the potassium ion than with the iodide ion.

Utz, John. "Pulmonary aspergillosis with cavitation: iodide therapy associated with an unusual electrolyte disturbance." New England Journal of Medicine (1959)​

This certainly shouldn't be viewed as a reason for avoidance; even sodium chloride can be fatal at 30 grams per day.

 

[Kram]

Thanks for the tips, Kram. How do you prepare your cilantro? I’ve suspected I have mercury toxicity myself and have been boiling cilantro then drinking the water as Ray has recommended for leafy greens, but so far haven’t noticed much of an effect.

What else has helped you eliminate your candida?

I bought a detox powder that combined cilantro, fulvic & humic acid and citrus pectin. I don't think you want to only use cilantro if you are detoxing - that can help chelate metals but you need to use a binder like citrus pectin or zeolite to make sure they are flushed out of your system. Otherwise, I think your body reabsorbs them.

See my post above. I think black walnut hull is one of the best anti-fungals but I prefer to use formulations that have multiple anti-fungals in them.

Besides BiOptimizers products, this is also a pretty good resource (Recommended Products) and their products are pretty similar to BiOptimizers.

Edit: as @Jam pointed out, I also use Iodine for immunity and detoxing. This is the best Iodine product I have found: Acceleradine® - Bioactive Ionic Iodine Supplement

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

I bought a detox powder that combined cilantro, fulvic & humic acid and citrus pectin. I don't think you want to only use cilantro if you are detoxing - that can help chelate metals but you need to use a binder like citrus pectin or zeolite to make sure they are flushed out of your system. Otherwise, I think your body reabsorbs them.

See my post above. I think black walnut hull is one of the best anti-fungals but I prefer to use formulations that have multiple anti-fungals in them.

Besides BiOptimizers products, this is also a pretty good resource (Recommended Products) and their products are pretty similar to BiOptimizers.

Edit: as @Jam pointed out, I also use Iodine for immunity and detoxing. This is the best Iodine product I have found: Acceleradine® - Bioactive Ionic Iodine Supplement

I’ll be sure to check them out, thanks!

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

UPDATE:

After two weeks on the NAC protocol, I’m experiencing serotonin symptoms (lethargy, anhedonia, depersonalization) and the candida seems to be resilient as ever.

Will try a new modified protocol and report back with my findings if anyone is still interested.

 

[Lollipop2]

UPDATE:

After two weeks on the NAC protocol, I’m experiencing serotonin symptoms (lethargy, anhedonia, depersonalization) and the candida seems to be resilient as ever.

Will try a new modified protocol and report back with my findings if anyone is still interested.

Your case is interesting, following. Please keep updating.

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

UPDATE: Dropped the NAC in exchange for half a mug of refined coconut oil in the morning and an entire bulb of raw crushed garlic in the evening.

No changes so far other than I now smell like a Shakey’s Pizza. Seems the yeast budding within me has combined with the garlic stench to give me the odor of moldy old garlic bread. Hilarious but zero improvements to report.

I’ve spent about two years guzzling coconut oil to try and kill this thing so I feel I may have made it more resilient. Going to order the black walnut hull Kram suggested and report back.

May also do another round of flowers of sulfur as I’m getting desperate and it seems to be the only thing with even a minor degree of efficacy anymore. The fungal rate of growth seemingly outpaces treatment at this point.

 

[revenant]

Hard to determine whether I have a bacterial (SIBO) or fungal issue but something is wrong with my digestion anyway, and both anti-microbials and anti-fungals seem to offer relief.

The most effective combination I have found is Thorne's SF7222 (undecylenic acid), oregano oil and activated charcoal. But whenever I stop taking them the symptoms slowly but surely come back.

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

Hard to determine whether I have a bacterial (SIBO) or fungal issue but something is wrong with my digestion anyway, and both anti-microbials and anti-fungals seem to offer relief.

The most effective combination I have found is Thorne's SF7222 (undecylenic acid), oregano oil and activated charcoal. But whenever I stop taking them the symptoms slowly but surely come back.

I’ve actually been taking that exact regimen sans the charcoal with very little relief. Starting to think my gut problems are autoimmune in origin and the candida is just a symptom.

 

[revenant]

I’ve actually been taking that exact regimen sans the charcoal with very little relief. Starting to think my gut problems are autoimmune in origin and the candida is just a symptom.

Do you get dieoff symptoms from those? If not then I guess they aren't doing much.

 

[Sweatshop Toad]

Do you get dieoff symptoms from those? If not then I guess they aren't doing much.

No dieoff symptoms but I have reason to believe my candida is all sequestered within biofilms snd therefore resistant.

 

[Matestube]

Greetings fellow Peaties. First time long time.

I've been lurking this fine forum for the better half of a decade and adhered to a fairly cookie cutter Ray Peat inspired diet, yet could never stem the overwhelming amount intestinal distress that so plagued my life. Constant brain fog, constipation, low libido, numerous food sensitivities... just about everything that can go awry with a human gut, despite very rarely straying from the list of Peat-approved foods.

More recently however, I stumbled upon /x/'s "Cosmic Death Fungus General" threads and after a week of adhering to the protocol (NAC, Oregano, Black Cumin Seed Oil, Pau d'arco) plus a low carb candida diet I'm feeling substantially better aside from the fungal dieoff symptoms.

Is it possible a good portion of this community also suffers from undiagnosed fungal overgrowth which prevents their gut from healing? Perhaps tailoring a Peat-inspired anti-fungus diet could be in order, although with the way they thrive on carbohydrate I'm not sure how that would work. I've also experimented with Ray's recommendations of turpentine and flowers of sulphur and while they yield short term benefit, they unfortunately aren't suitable for long term consumption.

If anyone else struggles with this issue I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Oregano oil to kill the candida

Heavy metal chelation to get at the root cause of the issue and have candida counts decrease.