Full Hydrogenation

[Blinkyrocket]

I just found out full hydrogenation completely removed polyunsaturated fat..... Is there a downside to this? Cuz it would seem hydrogenation is another thing that's been extremely demonized or whatever. I know partial hydrogenation creates trans fats, but if full hydrogenation just gets rid of everything but saturated.... Why not do that to everything?

 

[narouz]

You may be right about this, Blinky.
Seems like I heard Peat talk about this briefly in an interview...
the hydrogenation thing.

 

[HDD]

"However, the basic hardening process, hydrogenation of the oils, has been found to make the oils less likely to cause cancer. If I had to choose between eating ordinary corn oil or corn oil that was 100% saturated, to make a hard margarine, I would choose the hard margarine, because it resists oxidation, isn't suppressive to the thyroid gland, and doesn't cause cancer. " RP

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

This is interesting. Any idea what percentage of "hydrogenated vegetable oil" is actually not fully hydrogenated. I've seen hydrogenated coconut oil... For those of you who like to be lab rats - would you consider replacing your coconut oil with fully hydrogenated coconut oil for a month and see what happens? :)

 

[SaltGirl]

The most common refined coconut oil where I live in is hydrogenated. Been using it for some time now and haven't had ill effect from. Most people respond with only positive effects if anything.

 

[burtlancast]

This is interesting. Any idea what percentage of "hydrogenated vegetable oil" is actually not fully hydrogenated.

I've wondered the same thing.
The answer is very straightforward: a fully hydrogenated vegetable oil solidifies at room temperature and should be nearly free of unsaturated fatty acids.

The less you hydrogenate it, the more PUFAS remain, and the more liquid it stays.

If you read the ingredients lists for sunflower cooking oil, you'll read it contains about 50% PUFAS, 25% mono unsaturated and 10% saturated fatty acids.

Take this same coooking oil, hydrogenate it completely, and it will become rock solid like a margarine .

I believe pastries always use partially hydrogenated oils, as to make them tender but not hard.

 

[tara]

If you read the ingredients lists for sunflower cooking oil, you'll read it contains about 50% PUFAS, 25% mono unsaturated and 10% saturated fatty acids.

Do you know what the other 15% is? I expected a fairly pure oil to be close to 100% PUFA, MUFA, SFA?

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

Do we have any expert chemists here? What other molecules (besides properly saturated fatty acids) can pop out of a hydrogenating PUFA reaction? We should be able to classify:
1) the percentage of various lengths of fats
2) how fully saturated they are

 

[schultz]

Do we have any expert chemists here? What other molecules (besides properly saturated fatty acids) can pop out of a hydrogenating PUFA reaction? We should be able to classify:
1) the percentage of various lengths of fats
2) how fully saturated they are

I'm definitely not an expert chemist but here's sub par answer

Trans and cis fats. They are sort of in between hydrogenation.

In old experiments on diabetes, rats fed hydrogenated (or partially) vegetable oil were more protected than the rats getting just regular corn oil or whatever.

If I had to choose between corn oil or fully hydrogenated corn oil I'd choose the hydrogenated.

 

[SaltGirl]

This would also explain why my parents and their generation is not dead despite eating fat shortening for decades. Most likely the full hydrogenation minimizes the dangers of the polyunsaturated fats.

 

[BingDing]

There is a related thread here.

 

[Such_Saturation]

There is a related thread here.

I'll be damned, there's a German Ray Peat forum.

 

[schultz]

If anybody listened to the last Politics and Science episode, Ray mentioned that he now uses fully hydrogenated coconut oil. Just thought I would mention that.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Better buy some hydrogenated coconut oil stocks, I predict an upwards surge

 

[BingDing]

If anybody listened to the last Politics and Science episode, Ray mentioned that he now uses fully hydrogenated coconut oil. Just thought I would mention that.

I wonder where he gets it. I googled myself silly trying to find a source and couldn't. Has anyone had any luck finding it?

 

[schultz]

http://www.tkbtrading.com/item.php?item_id=983

They sell it.

 

[BingDing]

Cool, thanks schultz.

 

[narouz]

If anybody listened to the last Politics and Science episode, Ray mentioned that he now uses fully hydrogenated coconut oil. Just thought I would mention that.

This fits into a pattern here in recent years with Dr. Peat.
I can't be exact here
because going on memory of radio shows
and an imprecise knowledge of exactly what their date is.

But in one show--
I'll say within the last 10 years and more likely within the last 5 years--
Peat said
when asked about what the proportions of protein/carbs/fats should ideally be in the diet
Peat said he didn't know exactly,
but it should probably be about equal parts (one-third each).
But I believe in the same interview,
perhaps elsewhere,
he said that in recent years he had been trying to cut back on fats
because even the fatty foods he recommends (with qualifications--like eggs, for example)
will almost inescapably contain some PUFA.

And in another place he made a comment, recently,
about how the problem with PUFA is that they tend to accumulate with age.
He seemed to me to be emphasizing
that it is indeed a tough fight to keep that accumulation at bay.

So he said he had been modifying his diet,
eating less fat and replacing that with more fruit.

The general principle that emerged for me
is that Peat is increasingly vigilant against PUFA.
I mean: not like he was not vigilant going way back!
Still...even more vigilant as time passes.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think if they bioaccumulate, 4g in the diet is going to become ten times as much in the tissues. The stuff itself acts like a hormone so we are talking about micrograms or milligrams to have an effect. This is especially clear when you see that Ray Peat has aged quite normally with that amount.

 

[janus]

Can't wait to hear some observations from anyone who tries fully hydrogenated coconut oil.