Fruit Juit Remove Fats

mimmo123

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actually just checked cronometer you get 1 gram of pufa in 80 ounces
and 5 grams of total fat
 

Beefcake

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actually just checked cronometer you get 1 gram of pufa in 80 ounces
and 5 grams of total fat

Checked 3 different orange juice in chronometer and says 2,5, 3 and 5 grams of total fat. Sure there’s some fatty acids in juice but 1 glass of juice has 0,4 total fat. Probably 0,08 grams pufa. Nothing to worry about. Trying to remove fat from juice is just over doing it.
 
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I while back I was thinking about this. Whole fruits turned out to have more fat than fruit juices( when equalized by the same amount of sugar), and I think it's because the fiber from the fruit tends to bind to fatty acids, so when you juice and filter the liquid, some of the fat stays in the filtered fiber. So that means fruit juices, especially filtered ones are even safer than whole fruits, if you plan on drinking them a lot.
 

mimmo123

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yes I drink a lot 80 oz plus of orange juice per day plus beef liver milk etc. the pufas add up to being a lot like 5 grams or so per day.
the only way to avoid it is skim milk and store bought orange juice. Ray says he gets closer to 1gram of pufa per day now since his been using hydrogenated coconut oil, he used to be around 2 grams of pufa per day
 

rei

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Just run it through a coffee filter. It can absorb quite a lot of fat.

I would think of filtered juice to be more like a medicine you use as you isolate things and experiment. But as your digestion improves i bet eating the whole fruit is better for you than the filtered juice.
 
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CLASH

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Rays quote on PUFA’s is 4g/ 2000kcal/day, not 4g/ day. I wouldnt worry about PUFA content of things like sugary fruits and sugary fruit juices. I also wouldnt worry about PUFA content of things like carrots. I would worry about PUFA content of protein sources and fat sources. If you stick to low PUFA seafood, dairy, ruminant meat, coconut oil, beef tallow, cocoa butter, and butter your overall PUFA content will be very low, especially compared to the rest of the world, even populations that supposedly have low PUFA contents in thier diets.

Another thing to consider is PUFA to saturated fat intake, @haidut has mentioned a 10:1 ratio or more in favor of saturated fats being ideal. Idk where he got this from though, I’ve been adhering to it tho, for fun of course.

Stearic acid can help to mitigate the damaging effects of PUFA, this is high in cocoa butter and beef tallow.

Using vit E daily can help.

Using aspirin a few times a week can help.

Adequate carb intake with adequate protein intake can help with liver detoxification and glucoronidation of PUFA.

Adequate b vitamins help to detoxify PUFA’s.

Maintaing a higher muscle mass can help to burn fatty acids at rest and keep PUFA low.

Keeping iron stores low can help to avoid oxidation of PUFAs and lipofuscin formation.

Keeping endotoxin low can help to avoid setting off inflammatory reactions that trigger PUFA conversion into inflammatory mediators. High saturated fat, adequate fruit and vegetable fibers in the diet can help with this.

^these are all the things i do to micromanage PUFA. I think if you do more than me your obsessive and anal and should probably look into taking an SSRI.... :eek: ;)
(This part is a joke)
 

Beefcake

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yes I drink a lot 80 oz plus of orange juice per day plus beef liver milk etc. the pufas add up to being a lot like 5 grams or so per day.
the only way to avoid it is skim milk and store bought orange juice. Ray says he gets closer to 1gram of pufa per day now since his been using hydrogenated coconut oil, he used to be around 2 grams of pufa per day

I really dont believe 1-2 grams pufa per day is gonna ve the ultimate thing that age you/kill you. Getting even under 4-5 grams per day in todays society is kinda hard and studies show disease correltion when you get way above that number.
 

mimmo123

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Those are all great points and appreciated! But when your in a serious condition your going to optimize every factor so you can get out of the hell your in
Ray has specifically said 2 grams of pufa and under is for cancer prevention. Also it still accumulates even if your saturated fat is at a higher ratio then pufa and metabolically running on a high fat diet isn't that great. Everything he talks about is about blocking the fat oxidation so you can burn glucose instead

Ray Peat, PhD:

“In every type of tissue, it is the failure to oxidize glucose that produces oxidative stress and cellular damage.”

At 0.5 grams and under of pufa with a total low fat diet you can stop the accumulation (Ray has mentioned this). Yes I agree a healthy person can get away with eating something way more balanced then this extreme low fat high carb diet I'm talking about and be fine. But I'm talking about a diet when someone is in a sick state like they did with the kempner rice diet.
 

CLASH

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@mimmo123
How long have you been playing with peats ideas?

Quite a few of us here have been playing with peats ideas for a few years. Alot of us tried very low PUFA and atleast for me I dont think it made that much of a difference. It made my diet too restrictive. I’m not saying not to try it out, but i dont think there are many people thriving on super low fat diets with pufa as low as .5g or even under 2g, especially if they are eating whole foods. Its pretty much impossible without using isolated nutrients and supplements, especially if your a larger individual who requires a decent amount of food. Super low PUFA, i just dont think is the answer or holy grail that we all think it is when we first find peat. I’d definetly try to limit it and mitigate its damage for sure, but i think theres a threshold where trying to go too low can cause an issue. Again experiment as you will, this is just my experience after playing with peats ideas for around 4 years. I think 4g/2000kcal is a more realistic yet still pretty difficult goal to obtain and one that has been directly mentioned by peat himself. There may be benefits to going lower but what is the cost to those benefits.
 

mimmo123

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I been doing it for 7 years I've done 4 grams, 2 grams and 0.5 grams of pufa per day

Eating even 1 gram of pufa for long term is not that difficult if thats something someone wants to try
80 oz of skim milk with 80 oz store bought orange juice
half an once of beef liver, 3 oz wild blueberries or store bought pineapple juice for manganese
and a small carrot about 2 oz, hydrogenated coconut oil 15 grams or as much as you want that makes you feel good, 50 or 100 grams of gelatin, salt,coffee for b3 and magnesium etc

You hit all your nutritional needs with the above foods and actually stay under 0.5 grams of pufa and thats extreme so eating something like 2 grams of pufa per day is very easy It's a simple diet that can all be prepared in 10 minutes for the whole day


Supplements I take Vitamin,D,K2,E
Vitamin E once a week small amounts. Vitamin D as needed to keep levels up based on blood test
and vitamin K2 I just love taking its very powerful

Yes there is a difference in going low pufa you would know if you done it for years consistently. and tracked temps,co2,blood pressure, cholesterol etc. I was coming from death I was doing raw vegan super food crap my cholesterol was 140 from all the pufa I couldn't function at all
following David Wolfe and eating all that superfood and like a bag of sunflower seeds a day sometimes. then I switched and would do the calorie restriction stuff and fasting because I felt like crap from all that fat.

Gurus would always tell me NO SUGAR, Low Protein, and High Fat and they didn't even care what type of fat

when I cut out the fat and did high amounts of fruit there was such a huge difference in me it wasnt even funny thats when I went searching for answers and found Ray and the things he was saying made sense and matched my experience.

I added Milk and gelatin, increasing protein was a game changer in addition to the fruit I just kept refining the diet based on Rays articles
 

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CLASH

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Those are all great points and appreciated! But when your in a serious condition your going to optimize every factor so you can get out of the hell your in
Ray has specifically said 2 grams of pufa and under is for cancer prevention. Also it still accumulates even if your saturated fat is at a higher ratio then pufa and metabolically running on a high fat diet isn't that great. Everything he talks about is about blocking the fat oxidation so you can burn glucose instead

Ray Peat, PhD:

“In every type of tissue, it is the failure to oxidize glucose that produces oxidative stress and cellular damage.”

At 0.5 grams and under of pufa with a total low fat diet you can stop the accumulation (Ray has mentioned this). Yes I agree a healthy person can get away with eating something way more balanced then this extreme low fat high carb diet I'm talking about and be fine. But I'm talking about a diet when someone is in a sick state like they did with the kempner rice diet.


@mimmo123
If you’ve been doing this for 7 years why are you implying to some extent with this post that you are sick and need to restrict your PUFA that much?

The diet you discussed above has more than 1g of PUFA. Also, its extremely restrictive overall in my opinion.

You changed quite a few things in the diet, sure its just the PUFA?
 

mimmo123

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I was sick thats why I started this diet and restricting Pufa was very beneficial
The diet above is less then .05 grams of pufa screenshot was attached. I been doing the .5 grams of pufa for a little over a year now

Yes doing a high carb in general was a lot better I was eating a lot of fruits mangos berries and cooked vegetables much more balanced then this restrictive diet I'm talking about. I was probably getting around 4-5 grams of pufa eating 3,500 calories a day felt good! Eating that much fruit was restrictive to me as it takes up a lot of time and is expensive verse drinking juice and milk for example. But on that diet Protein was low, pufa high and toxins from the vegetables not good

As I said I kept refining the diet based on Rays works adding milk to increase protein and lowering pufa etc the results continued to improve based on how I felt and measurements. So to me it's not restrictive because I just feel better on it and saves a bunch of time. Until blood tests indicate something is wrong then I'll stop

Why do you think pufa are beneficial?

Have you measured anything so you can compare how you feel when your on x diet and have x measurement in blood verse not. like how much mead acid your producing, cholesterol,co2, t3 etc on each diet?
 

CLASH

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@mimmo123

Lol I never stated that i thought PUFA was beneficial, just that its difficult to restrict PUFA to the degree you discuss in general. It requires using a lot of isolated and specific foods in my experience. I also was implying that I wonder if restricting PUFA to such an extent really adds that much extra value i.e. where is the point of diminishing returns? I have played around with peats principles for around 4 years now and I have found other things besides restricting PUFA to be much more helpful for me, besides the fact that I do in fact restrict PUFA, just not to the levels that you discuss. I’m fine with my 4g/2000kcal target which is still difficult to reach for most people.

I have measured the basic stuff you mention but not mead acid. Low fat dairy and orange juice with gelatin, did not improve my numbers so much even after years of PUFA restriction.

As I said in my original post, this was all just based on my experience. I did my best to stipulate everything with “i think” or “in my experience”. Not telling you what to do, just sharing perspective. If what your doing works for you then enjoy.
 

rei

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Small amounts of PUFa are only problematic if you are constantly eating. Eating 1-2 meals per day gives you enough time in catabolic metabolism to burn the pufa off as fast as it comes in, preventing to a large degree the toxicity. The catastrophic problems start when you consume pufa that cannot be burned away before your next meal.
 

mimmo123

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@CLASH

Awesome thanks for sharing your experience. Yea what I'm talking about is something extreme and don't recommend it to anyone. I just been doing it for a little while now and so far so good but if benefits are not there no sense to keep on doing something.
 
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