Fructose Is A Great Dieting Tool

[Ulla]

The last meal of the day may be when fructose is most useful. But again, this is just speculation, and one will have to put it to the test.

I always thought the earlier meal is more appropriate for fruit [fructose] because of liver being 'empty' after the night time, and more starches is better in the other half of the day when muscles are being more tired after all day.
I am saying this as thinking out loud :)

 

[jaa]

Great post @tyw!

That helped uncover and resolve a few of the conflicting ideas about fructose I had rolling around in my head and the general conclusion about fructose:glucose ratios and amount of fructose per meal jives with my personal experience.

 

[tyw]

I always thought the earlier meal is more appropriate for fruit [fructose] because of liver being 'empty' after the night time, and more starches is better in the other half of the day when muscles are being more tired after all day.
I am saying this as thinking out loud :)

Regarding fructose earlier in the day, Yes, it's likely useful there as well.

That does not have anything to do with the suitability of glucose during the rest of the day though. Metabolic tolerance for Fructose, should be treated as a distinct concern from that of Glucose tolerance.

I personally wouldn't consider glucose any more or less useful at different times, but tolerance varies. Circadian variance of insulin sensitivity would favour earlier bouts of glucose:

(a) muscle insulin sensitivity highest in the morning, and then falls through the day

=> muscles more able to deal with glucose in the morning​

(b) whereas adipose tissue insulin sensitivity lowest in the morning, and rises through the day up until noon, then usually stays elevated through the day (depending on various circadian effects) -- Human adipose tissue expresses intrinsic circadian rhythm in insulin sensitivity. - PubMed - NCBI

=> insulin's increased action on adipose tissue in the afternoon may cause disproportionate fat cell growth with high glucose intakes later during the day. Note that this may be possible for protein as well. Note that these are just generalities (see note below).​

Activity levels and type of activity through the day will also affect glucose handling.

Most of these factors generally make early-in-the-day glucose consumption preferred.

Bill Lagakos did a good post about circadian insulin sensitivity, and why the morning is the generally the best time for carbohydrate consumption -- “Afternoon diabetes” and nutrient partitioning

Keep in mind my comments in this thread -- Mycircadianclock.org - Time Restricted Feeding(eating During Daylight)

TL;DR: Yes, I think eating earlier during daylight hours is in general more circadian appropriate, but have seen so many exceptions to the rule. People should experiment for their own meal timing.​

Fructose is not as affected by these insulin mediated pathways, and hence the comment that even a relatively small amount of fructose like 20g later in the day would have a disproportionately large effect at maintaining a higher metabolic rate. It is this disproportionate effect that I called "useful".

....

 

[Ulla]

@tyw
Thank you for the feedback :)

 

[tankasnowgod]

While listening again to Danny Roddy's recent podcast with Ray Peat, Peat mentioned that increased carbon dioxide can stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis, and this could be a reason people lose weight when moving to a higher altitude, without consciously restricting calories or doing more exercise. Since Fructose is supposed to increase the body's production of CO2, I wondered if there were any studies that used fructose to stimulate new mitochondria. I found one that indeed did just that, though the results seem to be somewhat negative, at least in the abstract-

Increased skeletal muscle mitochondrial efficiency in rats with fructose-induced alteration in glucose tolerance.

"In the present study, the effect of long-term fructose feeding on skeletal muscle mitochondrial energetics was investigated. Measurements in isolated tissue were coupled with the determination of whole-body energy expenditure and insulin sensitivity. A significant increase in plasma NEFA, as well as in skeletal muscle TAG and ceramide, was found in fructose-fed rats compared with the controls, together with a significantly higher plasma insulin response to a glucose load, while no significant variation in plasma glucose levels was found. Significantly lower RMR values were found in fructose-fed rats starting from week 4 of the dietary treatment. Skeletal muscle mitochondrial mass and degree of coupling were found to be significantly higher in fructose-fed rats compared with the controls. Significantly higher lipid peroxidation was found in fructose-fed rats, together with a significant decrease in superoxide dismutase activity. Phosphorylated Akt levels normalised to plasma insulin levels were significantly lower in fructose-fed rats compared with the controls. In conclusion, a fructose-rich diet has a deep impact on a metabolically relevant tissue such as skeletal muscle. In this tissue, the consequences of high fructose feeding are altered glucose tolerance, elevated mitochondrial biogenesis and increased mitochondrial coupling. This latter modification could have a detrimental metabolic effect by causing oxidative stress and energy sparing that contribute to the high metabolic efficiency of fructose-fed rats."

I've requested the full text, cause something just doesn't make sense here. Fructose stimulated new mitochondria, but lowered RMR and increased coupling? I'm wondering if there were other elements of the diet that were used in the fructose fed rats to mask the potential benefits of the new mitochondria.

 

[Jsaute21]

If you have to lose weight and restrict calories, which Peat does not recommend, it looks like fructose can be a great tool to help you do that safely. This study showed that adding 100g of fructose daily (administered IV) spares protein loss, keeps thyroid hormone high (T3) and prevents the overall negative effects of starvation. The only problem is that the study used IV administration of fructose, so the oral dose will have to be several times higher. Also, it is not clear if with the oral dose the overall effects will be similar/same since all that fructose will have to pass through the liver and get metabolized differently (maybe).
But still, a great boost for the image of fructose!

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/10 ... ctose.html

P.S. The blog post has another image, which shows protein sparing effects of sodium bicarbonate, and potassium bicarbonate + calcium carbonate. This matches well Ray's statement that increasing intake of the alkaline minerals will reduce muscle catabolism.

What are your thoughts on a fructose powder made from crystalline fructose, derivative of corn I believe? I got the now brand which seems pretty quality.

 

[haidut]

What are your thoughts on a fructose powder made from crystalline fructose, derivative of corn I believe? I got the now brand which seems pretty quality.

As long as it does not have any unprocessed starch as the fructose syrup in sodas turned out to have it should be OK.

 

[Jsaute21]

As long as it does not have any unprocessed starch as the fructose syrup in sodas turned out to have it should be OK.

I assume you mean HFCS? Yeah ingredient is pure fructose(non gmo).

 

[chispas]

As an aside, I've been thinking about the timing of macronutrients recently, as it appears to be that throughout human development there wasn't always the availability of carbs/fats/protein at every moment of the day. Given the way sugar (sucrose) has been described to work in the body, is it a good inference to think that loading up on sucrose in the morning is preferable?

From a laymen's perspective, it seems to me, that once liver glycogen is high, the body can cope with the digestion of protein and caffeine without the threat of low blood sugar occurring. Perhaps its preferable to start the day with *only* fruits and sweet juices, eat protein around the middle of the day while glycogen remains high, and then as evening comes, revert to higher fat, lower sugar products, like milk/custard/ice cream.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

 

[ecstatichamster]

As an aside, I've been thinking about the timing of macronutrients recently, as it appears to be that throughout human development there wasn't always the availability of carbs/fats/protein at every moment of the day. Given the way sugar (sucrose) has been described to work in the body, is it a good inference to think that loading up on sucrose in the morning is preferable?

From a laymen's perspective, it seems to me, that once liver glycogen is high, the body can cope with the digestion of protein and caffeine without the threat of low blood sugar occurring. Perhaps its preferable to start the day with *only* fruits and sweet juices, eat protein around the middle of the day while glycogen remains high, and then as evening comes, revert to higher fat, lower sugar products, like milk/custard/ice cream.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

I do very well with low low fat until dinner. If I have fat in the morning I get cravings and eat poorly all day. I think early morning fat consumption causes insulin resistance.

 

[chispas]

I do very well with low low fat until dinner.

Do you mean, you do well on low fat until dinner (and then suddenly do worse at dinner)? Or do you mean, you do well on low fat until dinner, because you eat high fat at dinner (and this makes dinner worse)?

If I have fat in the morning I get cravings and eat poorly all day.

I tend to fair well eating high sugar and very low fat throughout the day - very little protein until noon, except for whatever protein is in a couple of cheese sticks (probably approx. 10g). Then around lunch, I have approx 40g casein protein in a drink, with a bit more fruit sugar in the form of mango, while I also tend to snack on raisins, gummy bears, etc. It's funny but sugar cravings disappear for the rest of the day when you begin the day with high sugar intake. Then towards dinner, maybe a bit more protein (in the form of meat) with a small quantity of saturated fat, some good quality chocolate, maybe custard or ice cream (not huge servings, because my appetite for fat has diminished a bit). Then I notice I don't get hungry into the evening, and I don't go to bed hungry or get hungry during the night.

Ray Peat should do an article about timing foods at particular times of the day. Since I have applied these small adjustments to my diet, I feel a sense of improved mood and increased libido, as well as my hair started growing faster. With very low fat, long term, I didn't even need a haircut after four months - I usually get one every three weeks.

 

[Jsaute21]

@haidut have you tried pure fructose yet? This is the product i bought and it is delicious.

NOW® Real Food - Crystalline Fructose - 24 oz (680 Grams)

 

[haidut]

@haidut have you tried pure fructose yet? This is the product i bought and it is delicious.

NOW® Real Food - Crystalline Fructose - 24 oz (680 Grams)

Yes, I have a few bags like that at home. I like it but find that just like the steroids (i.e. androsterone/DHEA/pregnenolone) a combination of fructose with a little glucose seems to be synergistic over pure fructose. Maybe not 50/50 ratio like sucrose but more like 80/20 ratio for fructose/glucose would be optimal as fuel. However, for people with serious health issues pure fructose may be better as it activates the enzyme PDH, which is universally downregulated in all chronic conditions.

 

[Jsaute21]

Yes, I have a few bags like that at home. I like it but find that just like the steroids (i.e. androsterone/DHEA/pregnenolone) a combination of fructose with a little glucose seems to be synergistic over pure fructose. Maybe not 50/50 ratio like sucrose but more like 80/20 ratio for fructose/glucose would be optimal as fuel. However, for people with serious health issues pure fructose may be better as it activates the enzyme PDH, which is universally downregulated in all chronic conditions.

Yeah, I completely agree. Can be a cheap, useful tool though certainly. Thanks for referring.

 

[Momado965]

If you have to lose weight and restrict calories, which Peat does not recommend, it looks like fructose can be a great tool to help you do that safely. This study showed that adding 100g of fructose daily (administered IV) spares protein loss, keeps thyroid hormone high (T3) and prevents the overall negative effects of starvation. The only problem is that the study used IV administration of fructose, so the oral dose will have to be several times higher. Also, it is not clear if with the oral dose the overall effects will be similar/same since all that fructose will have to pass through the liver and get metabolized differently (maybe).
But still, a great boost for the image of fructose!

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/10 ... ctose.html

P.S. The blog post has another image, which shows protein sparing effects of sodium bicarbonate, and potassium bicarbonate + calcium carbonate. This matches well Ray's statement that increasing intake of the alkaline minerals will reduce muscle catabolism.

You mean Calcium Carbonate + Either Sodium Caebonate or Potassium Carbonate? Also I had a similar experience 2 weeks ago. I fasted a dry fast for three days then continued to fast with lots of pineapple juice + taurine about 15 g. It was a considerably long fast in terms of days. Currently I have been reciprocating for over a week by not fasting and eating frequently. My pufa intake averages 4.5 most days. Highest after fasting till today was 5.7g a couple of times a week. Though I avidly control it and eat 10x or more SAFAs. The next time around I'll add egg shells to the pineapple juice.

 

[Momado965]

I always thought the earlier meal is more appropriate for fruit [fructose] because of liver being 'empty' after the night time, and more starches is better in the other half of the day when muscles are being more tired after all day.
I am saying this as thinking out loud :)

This is very true. We Muslims break our Ramadan fast with dates and in non fasting days we take a tablespoon of honey diluted in water or not upon wake up. Before knowing about Dr Peat I wasn't regular with the practice however now I always break my fast with honey, fruits, or juice.

 

[haidut]

You mean Calcium Carbonate + Either Sodium Caebonate or Potassium Carbonate? Also I had a similar experience 2 weeks ago. I fasted a dry fast for three days then continued to fast with lots of pineapple juice + taurine about 15 g. It was a considerably long fast in terms of days. Currently I have been reciprocating for over a week by not fasting and eating frequently. My pufa intake averages 4.5 most days. Highest after fasting till today was 5.7g a couple of times a week. Though I avidly control it and eat 10x or more SAFAs. The next time around I'll add egg shells to the pineapple juice.

Look at the link I posted. It is all explained there in the section colored in red.

 

[Momado965]

Look at the link I posted. It is all explained there in the section colored in red.

*sighs* Such an inconvenience.

 

[lvysaur]

Do you mean, you do well on low fat until dinner (and then suddenly do worse at dinner)? Or do you mean, you do well on low fat until dinner, because you eat high fat at dinner (and this makes dinner worse)?

I'm pretty sure he means he eats low fat all day, but then eats high fat at dinner.

 

[Collden]

As an aside, I've been thinking about the timing of macronutrients recently, as it appears to be that throughout human development there wasn't always the availability of carbs/fats/protein at every moment of the day. Given the way sugar (sucrose) has been described to work in the body, is it a good inference to think that loading up on sucrose in the morning is preferable?

From a laymen's perspective, it seems to me, that once liver glycogen is high, the body can cope with the digestion of protein and caffeine without the threat of low blood sugar occurring. Perhaps its preferable to start the day with *only* fruits and sweet juices, eat protein around the middle of the day while glycogen remains high, and then as evening comes, revert to higher fat, lower sugar products, like milk/custard/ice cream.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

I think you are on to something here, and it is an eating pattern replicated by modern societies that eat a western diet yet remain relatively healthy, such as the french and italians. They tend to eat a breakfast that is high in sugars and low in protein, then eat a substantial protein-heavy lunch, and in the evening eat similar to lunch, but smaller amounts and higher in fats (think cheeses and high-fat charcuteries).

I used to think that I needed a lot of protein in the morning to get the liver going, but it turns out I can be absolutely fine with just high-sugar pastries and fruits/juices in the morning, whereas I seem to digest a large protein-heavy meal the best around noon.