Fructose Doesn't Make Sense

[lampofred]

How can something lower FFA and cortisol yet raise metabolism at the same time?

Doesn't anything that raises metabolism necessarily have to raise FFA & cortisol in order to increase fuel availability?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Doesn't anything that raises metabolism necessarily have to raise FFA & cortisol in order to increase fuel availability?

That's pretty much the opposite of everything stated in Ray Peat's work and most of the posts on this forum. Both FFA and cortisol lower metabolism.

 

[lampofred]

That's pretty much the opposite of everything stated in Ray Peat's work and most of the posts on this forum. Both FFA and cortisol lower metabolism.

Things that raise metabolism raise FFA & cortisol (coffee for example) but then FFA & cortisol slow down metabolism in a protective reaction if they get too high relative to glucose. That's how I understand it.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Things that raise metabolism raise FFA & cortisol (coffee for example) but then FFA & cortisol slow down metabolism in a protective reaction if they get too high relative to glucose. That's how I understand it.

Again, Peat has stated otherwise, and Haidut posted this study that backs up that view- Coffee Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis

 

[lampofred]

Again, Peat has stated otherwise, and Haidut posted this study that backs up that view- Coffee Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis

Not sure if you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe I didn't word it clearly, I'll try to think of how to better word it in the morning. And coffee might have a substance that lowers cortisol but that is not the substance that raises metabolism. Caffeine is the substance in coffee that raises metabolism and caffeine does raise FFA & cortisol in a dose-dependent manner.

 

[rei]

Not sure if you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe I didn't word it clearly, I'll try to think of how to better word it in the morning. And coffee might have a substance that lowers cortisol but that is not the substance that raises metabolism. Caffeine is the substance in coffee that raises metabolism and caffeine does raise FFA & cortisol in a dose-dependent manner.

It found caffeine to be neutral in regards to 11β-HSD1 and an unknown compound in coffee to be a strong inhibitor.

Seems like Peat was right again, i wonder where from this knowledge of caffeine increasing cortisol comes from, can you link some studies?

edit: seems like cortisol only rises from caffeine if the stimulatory effect exceeds the available energy: Caffeine Stimulation of Cortisol Secretion Across the Waking Hours in Relation to Caffeine Intake Levels

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

How can something lower FFA and cortisol yet raise metabolism at the same time?

Doesn't anything that raises metabolism necessarily have to raise FFA & cortisol in order to increase fuel availability?

I guess it's because fructose itself is a great fuel, so it can both boost metabolism and provide calories to the cells at the same time. Caffeine increases metabolism, but doesn't provide calories.

 

[Kingpinguin]

Not sure if you are understanding what I'm saying. Maybe I didn't word it clearly, I'll try to think of how to better word it in the morning. And coffee might have a substance that lowers cortisol but that is not the substance that raises metabolism. Caffeine is the substance in coffee that raises metabolism and caffeine does raise FFA & cortisol in a dose-dependent manner.

Again, Peat has stated otherwise, and Haidut posted this study that backs up that view- Coffee Inhibits Cortisol Synthesis

Cortisol can likely both be decreased and increased by caffeine. If you drink black coffee in the mornig on an empty stomach you will likely get an cortisol increase

It makes a lot of sense. Caffeine increases the rate you burn blood sugar. When you burn blood sugar your body will release cortisol to compensate since your running out of fuel in your blood it has cortisol to release more fuel to burn. This cortisol contributes to the release of free fatty acids to burn a fuel in emergency. In the morning you have already fasted the whole night so you’re likely already low blood sugar. Adding caffeine to that will worsen that and cause a bigger cortisol spike and may end you up with shakes and anxiety.

But if you supplement with simple sugars like fructose or glucose you’ll supply the body enough fuel to keep the fire going and there wont be any need to release cortisol. And like thankasnowgod says in this scenario caffeine combined with fuel likely boost thyroid which boost steroids/neurosteroids which in turn suppress cortisol.

It’s very simple and logical. Havent you read and understood rays work? Iampofred?

The same can be applied to any metabolic booster like amphetamine, cocaine, testosterone, thyroid and many many more substances. My point is that anything that increases metabolism needs fuel. These substances are only signals. They are not fuel. You have to supply fuel ”sugars mainly” to avoid your bodys buildt in break system and stress respons. Thats why you have cortisol to help you sustain in emergency but if you over stimulate it your body will eventually tell you. STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!! Coz you are breaking down body tissue, fat, skin ages, bones, organs. Eventually if you starve for too long your brain can actually start eating itself to preserve the more vital parts and organs like the heart.

That sustained release of cortisol and the brain autophagy that happens during starvation seems to be correlated. Would not suprise me if high cortisol levels eventually triggered your brain to eat itself for energy and thus cause brain shrinkage. Funny is that ”fasting believers” says the brain eating and high cortisol is healthy because the brain is clearing out bad/defective brain cells. But I think they just had most of their own brains eaten away so they cant think straight.

 

[Tarmander]

Gbolduev, the fake guru, always said this. You cannot raise metabolism without also raising cortisol. Maybe in theory you can, but it does seem to be quite the rare sight in practice.

 

[olive]

Gbolduev, the fake guru, always said this. You cannot raise metabolism without also raising cortisol. Maybe in theory you can, but it does seem to be quite the rare sight in practice.

Mirtazapine lowers cortisol while increasing TDEE, as do almost all AAS.

 

[rob]

@lampofred Regarding fructose and cortisol, here's a study explaining how sucrose, which obviously is one part fructose, inhibited the stress response in human test subjects:
Excessive Sugar Consumption May Be a Difficult Habit to Break: A View From the Brain and Body

In brief:

"Besides increasing opioids, it [sucrose] suppresses HPA axis stress reactivity, and this may be due in part to activation of the hippocampus during stress.

The hippocampus plays a primary role in glucocorticoid negative feedback, and diminished hippocampal structure and function is linked to exaggerated HPA responsiveness."

As to a fundamental principle at play, the study concludes with the familiar idea of energy supply and demand, which others have spoken about above:

"Unlike artificial sweeteners, sugar may provide the fuel needed to meet the energetic demands of stress, which may reduce the need for glucocorticoid-driven energy catabolism and mobilization of the body's energy stores."