Frozen Feet

[Elchapchapchapo]

@waldenpond

On days I've had close to 10,000 calories (not a typo), my euphoria is so high that I'm laughing at EVERYTHING. If that's not a sign of a high metabolic rate I dunno what is =)

I use to be like this , until i fell more ill, teach me your secrets!!

 

[redred]

before I ventured into becoming a living furnace I was knitting wool socks like a mad man

wool/cashmere is great for keepin feet and hands warm

 

[gaze]

A hypo individual can eat 10000 calories and not gain weight because the body isn’t using the energy being eating. most of it’s being wasted. it’s why ray had to eat 8000 calories when he was really hypo. Weight gain is actually a decent sign because it means your body is making use of the energy being taken in. What that means for weight gain loss calories in general i’m not sure..but eating ungodly amounts of food with no weight fluctuations is not a good sign. possible many who experience weight gain have decent thyroid function and slow metabolism at the same time?

 

[Jing]

A hypo individual can eat 10000 calories and not gain weight because the body isn’t using the energy being eating. most of it’s being wasted. it’s why ray had to eat 8000 calories when he was really hypo. Weight gain is actually a decent sign because it means your body is making use of the energy being taken in. What that means for weight gain loss calories in general i’m not sure..but eating ungodly amounts of food with no weight fluctuations is not a good sign. possible many who experience weight gain have decent thyroid function and slow metabolism at the same time?

When you say the body isn't using the energy it is being wasted, what is it being wasted on?

 

[gaze]

When you say the body isn't using the energy it is being wasted, what is it being wasted on?

wasted as it’s not being used for anything. not for fat storage or for proper cellular energy usage. it’s not producing co2 within the cells, not providing minerals to the cells, etc. it’s as if you arnt eating anything. that’s what can happen in some cases of hypo, specifically those of Rays where in 8000 calories are needed just to feel normal, because a large portion is not being utilized at all by the body. it’s why when he supplemented thyroid he cut his calories by more than half because the food wasn’t being wasted anymore

 

[Jing]

wasted as it’s not being used for anything. not for fat storage or for energy usage. it’s not producing co2 within the cells, not providing minerals to the cells, etc. it’s as if you arnt eating anything. that’s what can happen in some cases of hypo, specifically those of Rays where in 8000 calories are needed just to feel normal, because a large portion is not being utilized at all by the body. it’s why when he supplemented thyroid he cut his calories by more than half because the food wasn’t being wasted anymore

It has to be going somewhere, it can't just disappear, I'm quite sceptical about rays claims on this because thyroid supplement is used by so many people to lose weight, there is a reason bodybuilders will use T3.

T3 Increases the metabolic rate which means food is being used for energy and other processes instead of being stored.

 

[gaze]

It has to be going somewhere, it can't just disappear, I'm quite sceptical about rays claims on this because thyroid supplement is used by so many people to lose weight, there is a reason bodybuilders will use T3.

T3 Increases the metabolic rate which means food is being used for energy and other processes instead of being stored.

Much of the beneficial aspects of food can be excreted instead of utilized for proper cellular energy. and No doubt t3 can be used for weight loss. but I think it’s highly individual. often thyroid supplementation will cause people to go to a “normal” weight for their height, which for some can include healthy weight gain usually all around the body both in muscle and fat

 

[Jing]

Much of the beneficial aspects of food can be excreted instead of utilized for proper cellular energy. and No doubt t3 can be used for weight loss. but I think it’s highly individual. often thyroid supplementation will cause people to go to a “normal” weight for their height, which for some can include healthy weight gain usually all around the body both in muscle and fat

Are there any studies to show T3 can make you gain weight? I'm kind off sceptical of this but I'm trying to lose fat ATM and I'm taking T3 so I'm thinking now if it could be stopping me lose fat.

 

[gaze]

Are there any studies to show T3 can make you gain weight? I'm kind off sceptical of this but I'm trying to lose fat ATM and I'm taking T3 so I'm thinking now if it could be stopping me lose fat.

probably, i’m just basing it off peat. Also i’m not saying you should stop taking t3. it will probably help you if you track your temps. i’m just saying it can also make people who are underweight gain weight. both can be true at once

“Stereotypes are important. When a very thin person with high blood pressure visits a doctor, hypothyroidism isn't likely to be considered; even high TSH and very low T4 and T3 are likely to be ignored, because of the stereotypes. (And if those tests were in the healthy range, the person would be at risk for the “hyperthyroid” diagnosis.) But remembering some of the common adaptive reactions to a thyroid deficiency, the catabolic effects of high cortisol and the circulatory disturbance caused by high adrenaline should lead to doing some of the appropriate tests, instead of treating the person's hypertension and “under nourished” condition”

from his article on tsh and pulse rate

also in the full email response desecribing his caloric intake he describes it much better than I did

“About your high metabolic rate and high temperature: In my teens and twenties, I needed about 8000 calories per day when I was physically active, about 4000 to 5000 when I was sedentary, but after I took thyroid, I needed only about half as many calories. Thyroid is the basic regulator of blood glucose, and it causes it to be fully oxidized for energy, so that it produces ATP efficiently, on relatively few calories. If blood glucose falls, because it's being used very quickly, the body responds with stress hormones, including glucagon, adrenalin, and cortisol. They cause fat and protein to be burned for energy, while in hypothyroidism, glucose can still be used inefficiently for glycolysis, producing lactic acid, displacing bicarbonate and carbon dioxide. This causes mineral imbalances, with effects including cramps and nerve-muscle tension, which produce heat and waste energy. When you first start taking thyroid again, your tissues will need some extra magnesium, during the time when the dose is increasing, and when the mineral balance is restored your temperature and metabolic rate might decrease a little. Orange juice, milk, and coffee are good for the main minerals, while salting your food to taste”

So i was wrong when i said it’s not being used for energy, it is just from a result of things like adrenaline and cortisol

 

[accelerator]

My experience is that obese individuals are constantly dieting, skipping meals and keeping calories low. I lost a whopping 40kg which is around 88 pounds since following a Peat inspired diet (2012). Initially, when I upped my calories and eating every 4 hours, my weight ballooned, then as I reduced meat and increased fruit and milk, the weight rapidly shed. I never thought I would be worrying about being too skinny. The biggest obstacle to losing weight is a stressful and chaotic lifestyle. It was not only the diet I changed; I changed my whole lifestyle.

Did you go low fat as well? What % milk did you use? cheese?

 

[baccheion]

My experience is that obese individuals are constantly dieting, skipping meals and keeping calories low. I lost a whopping 40kg which is around 88 pounds since following a Peat inspired diet (2012). Initially, when I upped my calories and eating every 4 hours, my weight ballooned, then as I reduced meat and increased fruit and milk, the weight rapidly shed. I never thought I would be worrying about being too skinny. The biggest obstacle to losing weight is a stressful and chaotic lifestyle. It was not only the diet I changed; I changed my whole lifestyle.

What specifically did you eat? Any salt, gelatin, etc? How did you determine amounts? How many calories? How many over/under maintenance? Macros? How much protein? Protein:carb ratio? Fats? Why would meats result in absent weight loss?

 

[Jing]

@iLoveSugar did you manage to fix your cold feet ? I also have cold feet all the time the only time they get warm is while walking for a while or if I have a run on the treadmill but after I stop they just get cold again , I'm starting to think mine is a blood flow issue as my hands are always warm so don't think it's a thyroid issue .

 

[HHB]

i have had the feeling of the icicle feet in the past - it is an adrenaline response - .5-1tsp 3x/day in orange juice is VERY helpful. it is also helpful to warm them under hot water and then put on warm socks immediately after

 

[Jing]

i have had the feeling of the icicle feet in the past - it is an adrenaline response - .5-1tsp 3x/day in orange juice is VERY helpful. it is also helpful to warm them under hot water and then put on warm socks immediately after

For me I'm not sure it's an adrenaline response as my hands will be very warm at the same time as my feet being very cold I can also be very relaxed with no other adrenaline symptoms and they are still cold.

 

[Dr. B]

PTH is tricky because it can be a vicious loop to get out of. The higher your phosphate is, the more calcium/Vitamin D you need but the higher your phosphate is, the more damaging calcium/Vitamin D will be if you suddenly increase them in the diet. I think coffee helps to break out of the loop though because of how it increases metabolic efficiency, the more coffee you drink the higher doses of calcium/vitamin D you will be able to handle until you stabilize at a lower PTH level and no longer need the coffee.

And high doses of vitamin K will help to reverse the mild calcification that will inadvertently happen, even if you are making sure to drink lots of coffee.

why are calcium/vitamin d damaging with high phosphate, what happens from increasing them?

 

[Dr. B]

A hypo individual can eat 10000 calories and not gain weight because the body isn’t using the energy being eating. most of it’s being wasted. it’s why ray had to eat 8000 calories when he was really hypo. Weight gain is actually a decent sign because it means your body is making use of the energy being taken in. What that means for weight gain loss calories in general i’m not sure..but eating ungodly amounts of food with no weight fluctuations is not a good sign. possible many who experience weight gain have decent thyroid function and slow metabolism at the same time?

interesting
so the people who are hypo, and easily gain weight, you think are metabolically healthier than people with the wasteful hypothyroidism where theyre super sickly thin?
it means its harder to overcome the slim hypothyroidism form, and Ray overcoming it is more impressive?
also means fixing the overweight form of hypo should be fairly simple?

Are there any studies to show T3 can make you gain weight? I'm kind off sceptical of this but I'm trying to lose fat ATM and I'm taking T3 so I'm thinking now if it could be stopping me lose fat.

it can make you gain weight and can raise cortisol too. T3 burned up my muscle, and gained weight off of it, end result was a slowed metabolic rate with less muscle. NDT is much safer and probably better than a standalone t3 or t4 or t4/t3 combo... its got the t1 and t2, parathyroid, calcitonin

@gaze when Ray mentions only needing half the calories after adding in thyroid does he mean NDT, plain T3 or a T4 T3 combo? I wonder if he used T3 only, which lowered the metabolic rate, thus him only needing half the calories? T3 alone can shred up muscle tissue, hair, skin, organs and glands to be used as sugars.

 

[gaze]

interesting
so the people who are hypo, and easily gain weight, you think are metabolically healthier than people with the wasteful hypothyroidism where theyre super sickly thin?
it means its harder to overcome the slim hypothyroidism form, and Ray overcoming it is more impressive?
also means fixing the overweight form of hypo should be fairly simple?

in my opinion, if youre eating thousands of calories and sickly skinny, youre in the cancer type of metabolism. like cachexia. i think overweight hypo can more easily be solved than the cancer type of muscle wasting.

 

[Dr. B]

in my opinion, if youre eating thousands of calories and sickly skinny, youre in the cancer type of metabolism. like cachexia. i think overweight hypo can more easily be solved than the cancer type of muscle wasting.

whats the metabolism of the overweight type of hypo? that seems to be autoimmune mode...
its true, people ive seen with hypo and sickly skinny had cancer...
but the overweight hypo ive seen, seem to have autoimmune issues
they seem very opposite on both ends. fat vs thin. mainstream medicine considers autoimmunity the opposite of cancer.
but also, the overweight hypo do seem to have the cushings look. which is very thin arms and legs, with a big belly, buffalo hump fat on the back and neck... fattened face.
i think it could be in the initial stages of adrenal overactivity, you have excess cortisol aldosterone, and eventually once the adrenals are destroyed, you dont make cortisol anymore, hence become super thinned out?

 

[gaze]

whats the metabolism of the overweight type of hypo? that seems to be autoimmune mode...
its true, people ive seen with hypo and sickly skinny had cancer...
but the overweight hypo ive seen, seem to have autoimmune issues
they seem very opposite on both ends. fat vs thin. mainstream medicine considers autoimmunity the opposite of cancer.
but also, the overweight hypo do seem to have the cushings look. which is very thin arms and legs, with a big belly, buffalo hump fat on the back and neck... fattened face.
i think it could be in the initial stages of adrenal overactivity, you have excess cortisol aldosterone, and eventually once the adrenals are destroyed, you dont make cortisol anymore, hence become super thinned out?

both problems are hard to figure out. in both there might be high cortisol, high estrogen, low thyroid, insulin resistance, low vitamin D. it could be any. i think the difference is that in the sickly skinny people t3 is almost non existent, obese people probably are producing some t3, but have other problems

 

[Kaur Singh]

yes, a body that is under catabolism.
it cannot hold on to glucose
you are burning through food and your own tissues to produce energy to simply be
your body is not building up, it's building down.
it's why injuries never heal in this state

I'm amazed that some live like this for so long
I'm amazed still standing - though that is precisely the problem: dysautonomia is losing the basic ability of being upright.