From Spider Bite To Possible C.difficile

[Goat-e]

If there's one thing I've learnt to do in life, it's avoid doctors whenever possible. But unfortunately I got bitten by something (Dr reckons spider, I'm not so sure) a while back on my shin and it got badly infected. Was prescribed a seven day course of Pencillin (flucloxacillin) which proceeded to wreck my gut. Had to stop on day six because it was so bad, but a couple of days later the diarrhoea hasn't eased up any, and it's looking horribly like c.diff. Going back to the Dr's tomorrow and if it is then I'll most likely be prescribed even worse antibiotics.

Anyone got any experience with this, mitigating the risks etc? I'm generally not a fan of probiotics, pretty sure they were part of the reason I got RA (which thanks to Peat and the this forum I've since got rid of) so I'm really wary of them, but maybe the situation will warrant it...

I've been taking S. Boulardii which has had no effect, and pepto bismol as I found a study saying bismuth was antagonistic to c.diff but neither seems to have done anything. And to top it all, the wound doesn't seem to have improved any.

 

[Wagner83]

@Constatine

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Rev up that sweet tooth

Antibacterial effect of Manuka honey on Clostridium difficile.

Antimicrobial effects of Manuka honey on in vitro biofilm formation by Clostridium difficile.

The conventional antibiotics used in CDI therapy are often unsuccessful, and recurrent infections may occur. Biofilm formation by C. difficile is associated with chronic or recurrent infections; biofilms may contribute to virulence and impaired antimicrobial efficacy. Manuka honey, derived from the Manuka tree (Leptospermum scoparium), is known to exhibit antimicrobial properties that are associated with its significant content of methylglyoxal, a natural antibiotic. The aim of the present study was to determine the antimicrobial effect of Manuka honey on clinical C. difficile strains belonging to four prominent polymerase chain reaction (PCR) ribotypes (RTs) (RT017, RT023, RT027 and RT046) and on their biofilm formation in vitro. Minimal inhibitory and bactericidal concentrations (MICs and MBCs, respectively) were determined using the broth dilution method. The biomass of the biofilm and the clearance of C. difficile biofilms by Manuka honey were determined using the crystal violet staining method. The MIC and MBC of Manuka honey for C. difficile strains were equal at 6.25% (v/v). PCR RT027 strains produced more biofilm in vitro than the other examined strains. Manuka honey effectively inhibited biofilm formation by C. difficile strains of different PCR RTs.

 

[Luann]

Sorry Goat-e! The hospital I worked for recognized C. diff as a threat to be reckoned with. Sounds very unpleasant and I hear it's killed some older people, so remember to hydrate!! Hope you can figure it out <3

 

[Constatine]

I've been in a very similar situation as you. All my health problems have started with 2 brown recluse bites followed by a heavy course of antibiotics. My advice is to focus on keeping your gut barrier intact over worrying about the bacteria. It seems that a degraded intestinal mucosa leads to gut dysbiosis and not just the other way around. Eat plenty of protein, plenty of high quality (emphasis on the high quality) bone broth and collagen, get your vitamin A, and get your minerals through oysters. Vitamin A in high doses is great vs sepsis.

 

[Goat-e]

Thanks everyone.

@Constatine sounds like great advice, thank you.

 

[EIRE24]

I've been in a very similar situation as you. All my health problems have started with 2 brown recluse bites followed by a heavy course of antibiotics. My advice is to focus on keeping your gut barrier intact over worrying about the bacteria. It seems that a degraded intestinal mucosa leads to gut dysbiosis and not just the other way around. Eat plenty of protein, plenty of high quality (emphasis on the high quality) bone broth and collagen, get your vitamin A, and get your minerals through oysters. Vitamin A in high doses is great vs sepsis.

I thought that antibiotics were good for the gut and advised by some? Would it be more that the bites wrecked your gut or the antibiotics?

 

[Goat-e]

I think it depends... definitely the antibiotics which caused the issue, the bite was weeks previous and the stomach issues started almost immediately on the antibiotic. There is another possibility, which is I'm allergic to Penicillin, some people can be apparently (never had this problem with Minocycline). If that turns out to be the case then the reaction was pretty extreme, but it would obviously be a better outcome than c diff...

 

[Constatine]

I thought that antibiotics were good for the gut and advised by some? Would it be more that the bites wrecked your gut or the antibiotics?

Antibiotics can do both. If you have good gut health antibiotics can destabilize the gut flora and damage the intestinal barrier. If you have a gut microbiome problem then it can help but it can also make it worse. So to derive any benefit from antibiotics I think it is important to take protective measures. Lots of collagen proteins and protective herbs or teas (green tea is quite protective to the gut lining) can be used to keep the intestinal barrier from atrophy.
Also probiotics are fine on antibiotics but should your intestinal barrier become compromised you should stop immediately as it can be quite dangerous (with bacteria leaking into the bloodstream). I've definitely experienced this.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yes. Saccharomyces boulardii. Really fixes it. Should be taken with antibiotics. Or after.

 

[Lurker]

Activated charcoal might help with some of the die off reactions, slow down motility, help with liver burden etc. AC and s. boulardii are the first line of defense for diarrhea. Also some bacteriophages may help as a targeted antibiotic against E. coli strains as well as prebiotic effects feeding more beneficial strains. I would also be drinking a quart of kefir a day.

If it turns out to be c. diff, the best known cure (not treatment) is fecal transplant. Most docs are going to recommend stronger antibiotics even though this is the cause of the overgrowth in the first place.

Fecal Transplantation for the Treatment of Clostridium difficile Infection

 

[Goat-e]

So....bollocks. Confirmed C Diff (Despite walking into the Dr's nearly two weeks ago and telling them exactly what it was I still had to fight to get them to actually run the test, which took ages). Now on Metronidazole (Flagyl) for 14 days.

 

[EIRE24]

So....bollocks. Confirmed C Diff (Despite walking into the Dr's nearly two weeks ago and telling them exactly what it was I still had to fight to get them to actually run the test, which took ages). Now on Metronidazole (Flagyl) for 14 days.

I know someone who got C difficile from taking amoxicilin and was in a terrible state of health. He used a probiotic that was for dogs the name of the particular strain he thought fixed his issue was Bacillus Coagulans.

 

[HDD]

My daughter took Natren Healty Trinity when she had c. Diff. Stopped diarrhea in less than a week.

 

[Goat-e]

I know someone who got C difficile from taking amoxicilin and was in a terrible state of health. He used a probiotic that was for dogs the name of the particular strain he thought fixed his issue was Bacillus Coagulans.

So he didn't take antibiotics?

 

[Goat-e]

My daughter took Natren Healty Trinity when she had c. Diff. Stopped diarrhea in less than a week.

Did she take antibiotics as well, or just the Natren?

 

[HDD]

Did she take antibiotics as well, or just the Natren?

She had been on antibiotics, but not for C. diff. She was receiving chemo treatment and usually antibiotics after each treatment.

 

[EIRE24]

So he didn't take antibiotics?

He did, he took amoxicilin and it killed all gut bugs apart from C diff. Thats why his health took a massive dip. He didnt take antibiotics to fix the issue though, only probiotics.

 

[Goat-e]

She had been on antibiotics, but not for C. diff. She was receiving chemo treatment and usually antibiotics after each treatment.

He didnt take antibiotics to fix the issue though, only probiotics.

Intersting, so two people managed to rid themselves of it without using antibiotics...

 

[Goat-e]

Ok, so B. Coagulans is a spore forming anaerobe like C diff, and so will be susceptible to Mentrondiazole as well. No point taking it now as it will just get killed and possibly reduce the effectiveness of the antibiotic but probably worth doing right after I finish the course. The Natren is all aerobics from what I can tell which aren't affected by Mentrondiazole so might well be worth a shot now. S. Boulardi wasn't effective in this case so I stopped it. The only thing which has controlled the symptoms somewhat up until this point is pepto-bismol, interestingly Bismuth has some activity against C Diff.