Freely Eating Sugar Ruined Me

[sladerunner69]

+1


I would be surprised if it weren't more than that for quite a lot of people for quite a lot of the time, when available. Scarcity has been an important limiter for most of history.
Not representative, but Chris Kresser has this to say about working class Briton 1850-1880:
"Another advantage they had is that due to their physically demanding lifestyle, men and women during that time period ate twice as many calories as we do today. Men could consume upwards of 5,000 calories on a workday, and women over 3,000. The sheer quantity of food they ate, combined with its superior quality, resulted in average micronutrient levels 10 times higher than those of modern diets."
https://chriskresser.com/what-mid-victorians-can-teach-us-about-nutrition-and-health/

based on this paper:

How the Mid-Victorians Worked, Ate and Died
"Analysis of the mid-Victorian period in the U.K. reveals that life expectancy at age 5 was as good or better than exists today, and the incidence of degenerative disease was 10% of ours. Their levels of physical activity and hence calorific intakes were approximately twice ours. They had relatively little access to alcohol and tobacco; and due to their correspondingly high intake of fruits, whole grains, oily fish and vegetables, they consumed levels of micro- and phytonutrients at approximately ten times the levels considered normal today. This paper relates the nutritional status of the mid-Victorians to their freedom from degenerative disease; and extrapolates recommendations for the cost-effective improvement of public health today."
How the Mid-Victorians Worked, Ate and Died


Less than 1000 cals a day?

Yeah I like those articles, quite interesting reads thanks

However Im not talking about modern humans, and Victorians are still considerred modern humans. Im talking about humans up until civilization. Humans have been around in some cro-magnon form for perhaps a million years before modern humans, and I was making the point that none of them would be eating very many carbs or sugars on a daily basis...

 

[Blinkyrocket]

The level of fear-mongering in threads related to sugar, masturbation, drugs, or anything that is both pleasurable and healthy is out of control.

Fear mongering? If the honest truth evokes fear in you, you might need to fix some mental issues. Denial doesn't prove a lack of the thing you're denying. My own experience confirms that sugar has opioid-like withdrawals when you stop eating it completely and that after awhile you start to feel better and more clear headed. However, this is all based on taste, if the sugar taste is not that dense the effects are moderate at best. It happens when the sweetness is dense enough to make you sick if you eat too much.

When I stopped eating sugar I had severe anxiety for a couple weeks, but after I started eating more food and starch and protein with nothing sweet I was actually able to overcome my agoraphobia for the first time oddly enough. My relapse into agoraphobia happened during my Ray Peat dieting days, maybe a coincidence? Or maybe the studies that show that pure sucrose provokes anxiety after chronic eating of it are onto something. (Honey does not provoke anxiety with chronic ingestion, as it has anti-oxidant effects)

 

[Tenacity]

Fear mongering? If the honest truth evokes fear in you, you might need to fix some mental issues. Denial doesn't prove a lack of the thing you're denying. My own experience confirms that sugar has opioid-like withdrawals when you stop eating it completely and that after awhile you start to feel better and more clear headed. However, this is all based on taste, if the sugar taste is not that dense the effects are moderate at best. It happens when the sweetness is dense enough to make you sick if you eat too much.

When I stopped eating sugar I had severe anxiety for a couple weeks, but after I started eating more food and starch and protein with nothing sweet I was actually able to overcome my agoraphobia for the first time oddly enough. My relapse into agoraphobia happened during my Ray Peat dieting days, maybe a coincidence?

Your own experience cannot account for everyone, nor can your own experience actually explain what is going on in your body on the sub-ocular level. Multiple times on my own health journey I think I can explain myself chemically, when the reality is I don't know nearly enough to be able to explain what exactly is going on in my body.

However Im not talking about modern humans, and Victorians are still considerred modern humans. Im talking about humans up until civilization. Humans have been around in some cro-magnon form for perhaps a million years before modern humans, and I was making the point that none of them would be eating very many carbs or sugars on a daily basis...

If you accept the view that evolution occurs as a result of increasing complexity, caused by the complexifying nature of energy, I think one needs to accept that our pre-human ancestors must have had quite an ample access to carbohydrates - how else would they raise their metabolic rate enough to become human? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the Peatian view of evolution, however.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Your own experience cannot account for everyone, nor can your own experience actually explain what is going on in your body on the sub-ocular level. Multiple times on my own health journey I think I can explain myself chemically, when the reality is I don't know nearly enough to be able to explain what exactly is going on in my body.

At least I mentioned that study, phew.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Obviously I'm specifically talking about excessive and dense sources of sugar, btw. I drink orange juice still because it doesn't negatively affect me.

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

Fear mongering? If the honest truth evokes fear in you, you might need to fix some mental issues. Denial doesn't prove a lack of the thing you're denying. My own experience confirms that sugar has opioid-like withdrawals when you stop eating it completely and that after awhile you start to feel better and more clear headed. However, this is all based on taste, if the sugar taste is not that dense the effects are moderate at best. It happens when the sweetness is dense enough to make you sick if you eat too much.

When I stopped eating sugar I had severe anxiety for a couple weeks, but after I started eating more food and starch and protein with nothing sweet I was actually able to overcome my agoraphobia for the first time oddly enough. My relapse into agoraphobia happened during my Ray Peat dieting days, maybe a coincidence? Or maybe the studies that show that pure sucrose provokes anxiety after chronic eating of it are onto something. (Honey does not provoke anxiety with chronic ingestion, as it has anti-oxidant effects)

Could easily be a coincidence.

 

[Tenacity]

Obviously I'm specifically talking about excessive and dense sources of sugar, btw. I drink orange juice still because it doesn't negatively affect me.

Excessive and dense sources of sugar don't exist without human processing (excluding honey). I think we're both in agreement that white sugar is in no way an optimal food source.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Could easily be a coincidence.

Yeah, if you're into rationalizations.

 

[Xisca]

When I stopped eating sugar I had severe anxiety for a couple weeks, but after I started eating more food and starch and protein with nothing sweet I was actually able to overcome my agoraphobia for the first time oddly enough. My relapse into agoraphobia happened during my Ray Peat dieting days, maybe a coincidence? Or maybe the studies that show that pure sucrose provokes anxiety after chronic eating of it are onto something. (Honey does not provoke anxiety with chronic ingestion, as it has anti-oxidant effects)

You are right mhen you mention a BAD too exclusive use of sugar, because it is one portion of a plant and cannot be equal to fruits. But then you went to a NO sugar diet, so from an extreme to another. You mention adding more proteins, but did you remove some, when you ate what you call RP diet? Or was your diet just removing starch and replacing by sugar? A RP diet is not pure sucrose. Glycemia should not look like Andies peaks more like the altiplano!

Multiple times on my own health journey I think I can explain myself chemically, when the reality is I don't know nearly enough to be able to explain what exactly is going on in my body.

+1 and more!
I think I try to explain myself so that my mind keeps quiet, but it is not important to have the full explanation. I have accepted to change my cortex view since long, it is better for keeping calm. When we are lucky we get faster results... Then let's define luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Blinkyrocket]

You are right mhen you mention a BAD too exclusive use of sugar, because it is one portion of a plant and cannot be equal to fruits. But then you went to a NO sugar diet, so from an extreme to another. You mention adding more proteins, but did you remove some, when you ate what you call RP diet? Or was your diet just removing starch and replacing by sugar? A RP diet is not pure sucrose. Glycemia should not look like Andies peaks more like the altiplano!


+1 and more!
I think I try to explain myself so that my mind keeps quiet, but it is not important to have the full explanation. I have accepted to change my cortex view since long, it is better for keeping calm. When we are lucky we get faster results... Then let's define luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Technically less protein just because it would be hard to eat the same amount I was eating before AND all the liquid.

 

[Xisca]

As I have fruits and honey, I use sugar only in coffee. I do not eat that much liquid, and I care about a high intake of protein. You can look at the balance of macro, the type of sugar, to use sweet taste in a way that does not cause the addiction symtoms. We need some fat or some protein with carbs, and I think we also need the soluble fiber that is in the fruit, and the sugar does not have it.
Anything that avoid hyperglycemia and thus hypo, is what is needed, whatever carb we eat. It maybe more esay to acheive when we eat carbs and veggies and meat, than when you use sugar? It can be only because we lack some skill or ingredients to acheive the goal. I personnaly like meat with fruits, I have cooked plums and kiwi with my meat today. And when I eat liver, my body screams for honey with it!

 

[Such_Saturation]

OP did NOT gain 25 pounds eating 1000 cals per day
and unicorns don't actually bleed rainbow blood
#realitycheck

I understand that 1000 cal was after his hunger crashed.

Fear mongering? If the honest truth evokes fear in you, you might need to fix some mental issues. Denial doesn't prove a lack of the thing you're denying. My own experience confirms that sugar has opioid-like withdrawals when you stop eating it completely and that after awhile you start to feel better and more clear headed. However, this is all based on taste, if the sugar taste is not that dense the effects are moderate at best. It happens when the sweetness is dense enough to make you sick if you eat too much.

When I stopped eating sugar I had severe anxiety for a couple weeks, but after I started eating more food and starch and protein with nothing sweet I was actually able to overcome my agoraphobia for the first time oddly enough. My relapse into agoraphobia happened during my Ray Peat dieting days, maybe a coincidence? Or maybe the studies that show that pure sucrose provokes anxiety after chronic eating of it are onto something. (Honey does not provoke anxiety with chronic ingestion, as it has anti-oxidant effects)

So I assume you know what an opioid withdrawal feels like?

 

[jitsmonkey]

Sugar is addictive like cocaine.*
Never add sugar*
Limit your sugar consumption.*
Sugar is bad*
The white devil will steal your soul (and your dopamine apparently)*
*citation* Google Scholar

Is this real life?
Where people on the Ray Peat Forum discuss the evils and dangers of sugar?

Yeah yeah "intelligent debate/conversation"

Minus the intelligent part.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

As I have fruits and honey, I use sugar only in coffee. I do not eat that much liquid, and I care about a high intake of protein. You can look at the balance of macro, the type of sugar, to use sweet taste in a way that does not cause the addiction symtoms. We need some fat or some protein with carbs, and I think we also need the soluble fiber that is in the fruit, and the sugar does not have it.
Anything that avoid hyperglycemia and thus hypo, is what is needed, whatever carb we eat. It maybe more esay to acheive when we eat carbs and veggies and meat, than when you use sugar? It can be only because we lack some skill or ingredients to acheive the goal. I personnaly like meat with fruits, I have cooked plums and kiwi with my meat today. And when I eat liver, my body screams for honey with it!

Yeah, I definitely agree. In order to talk seriously about addiction, one has to try and not get defensive about it in order to not have all the hostility and stuff. I'm guilty of this as well everytime it happens. But, when it comes to withdrawal symptoms and neurochemistry changes induced by substances, I don't want to deny what happens. For those that are vulnerable, dopamine receptor downregulation can definitely happen along with withdrawal symptoms. It doesn't mean I don't eat a shred of food containing sucrose, and it doesn't mean I preach for people to abstain from sucrose or even to not eat drastically high amounts because whatever actually works for someone is what they should do. However, I also sympathize with the people who develop negative consequences from drastic amounts of sugar or anything else really and want to provide them with actual things to try and do to treat the symptoms, even possibly without altering diet until the symptoms are assuaged enough for it to be comfortable. Which is why I recommended herbal extracts (preferably pure from Bulksupplements, none of that filler crap) because some of them can significantly repair the dopaminergic system, regardless of whether or not the dopaminergic system was negatively affected by high amounts of sugar or endotoxin or something else. Course, I've done tons of research on specifically which constituents of these herbs are the ones that actually work, so Idk about every herb and I also wouldn't trust a google search to be all that fruitful.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Sugar is addictive like cocaine.*
Never add sugar*
Limit your sugar consumption.*
Sugar is bad*
The white devil will steal your soul (and your dopamine apparently)*
*citation* Google Scholar

Is this real life?
Where people on the Ray Peat Forum discuss the evils and dangers of sugar?

Yeah yeah "intelligent debate/conversation"

Minus the intelligent part.

So because sugar has ONE minor setback that you can't handle emotionally, you have to paint the assertion of that setback with wild hyperbole? If it happens, it happens, and you have to do what you have to do. If it's true, it's true. You remind me of modern Liberals, calling everything that other people say that they don't like "hate speech/microaggressions".

 

[Blinkyrocket]

I understand that 1000 cal was after his hunger crashed.


So I assume you know what an opioid withdrawal feels like?

Insomnia, yawning, goosebumps, hot and cold flashes, severe aches and pains in muscles and bones, noticeably pounding heart, and severe anxiety and depression. Check, check, check, check...

Curiously enough, it was the most severe set of symptoms I've had in my life, which leads me to think it couldn't have been just the sugar. It was tremendously more severe than the Phenibut withdrawal I went through a little more than a month ago. But, of course, I was eating 8600 calories a day before I decided to plummet that number all the way down to 1500-1700 and then eventually even lower. So, quite obviously there was some starvation in there too, I was also drinking tons of water and not enough sodium, not enough AT ALL.

 

[Xisca]

Yeah, I definitely agree. In order to talk seriously about addiction, one has to try and not get defensive about it in order to not have all the hostility and stuff. I'm guilty of this as well everytime it happens. But, when it comes to withdrawal symptoms and neurochemistry changes induced by substances, I don't want to deny what happens. For those that are vulnerable, dopamine receptor downregulation can definitely happen along with withdrawal symptoms.
Which is why I recommended herbal extracts (preferably pure from Bulksupplements, none of that filler crap) because some of them can significantly repair the dopaminergic system, regardless of whether or not the dopaminergic system was negatively affected by high amounts of sugar or endotoxin or something else. Course, I've done tons of research on specifically which constituents of these herbs are the ones that actually work, so Idk about every herb and I also wouldn't trust a google search to be all that fruitful.

Thanks for sharing this ONE LITTLE drawback, and the hours of search you did about herbal extracts!
We are on the forum to hopefully save time by sharing it.
Do you think the symtoms are or can be linked to bacterial overgrowth on sugar, glucose or fructose, and thus endotoxins? Or is it more linked to the hyper-hypo?

I think the hunger crash could have come from the stop-point given by the sweet taste... This stop point can also be what gives a want to eat salty crispy food?

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Thanks for sharing this ONE LITTLE drawback, and the hours of search you did about herbal extracts!
We are on the forum to hopefully save time by sharing it.
Do you think the symtoms are or can be linked to bacterial overgrowth on sugar, glucose or fructose, and thus endotoxins? Or is it more linked to the hyper-hypo?

I think the hunger crash could have come from the stop-point given by the sweet taste... This stop point can also be what gives a want to eat salty crispy food?

It was so long ago that I don't remember these details but I can say that nowadays, I'd say it feels like both, because there seems to be an increase in energy and then a decline in energy but throughout all that there's a consistent level of brain fog and just a sort of "sick" feeling that I know all too well. When I drink orange juice consistently in small sips throughout the day, basically probably giving me a completely flat blood sugar level with basically no dips or peaks, I feel great.

 

[jitsmonkey]

So because sugar has ONE minor setback that you can't handle emotionally, you have to paint the assertion of that setback with wild hyperbole? If it happens, it happens, and you have to do what you have to do. If it's true, it's true. You remind me of modern Liberals, calling everything that other people say that they don't like "hate speech/microaggressions".

You remind me of people who make up narratives to fit the smallest potentiality of a substantially larger subject with 101 higher probabilities
and write that narrative to suit your own myopic view toward that 1 extremely unlikely potentiality.
So there we both remind eachother of people we find unpleasant.

A guy gained 25 pounds and feels terrible after behaving like a reckless child in a candy store for a ridiculous amount of time.
You don't gain 25 pounds in a day. You do it by repeating an unchecked behavior over time.
The most likely scenario is he ate himself into fatness and misery

not "blame the sugar"
the OP needs to be checked.
YES the OP is responsible for his predicament not sugar
"OMG the shaming the blaming" you can now scream in your sensitive little voice

That's your highest probability no citations needed.
Check Google Scholar it'll agree.

Not saying he doesn't need help.
He DOES need help.
"Help" = giving in intelligent information based upon the extremely limited information provided.
intelligent = a solution that involves the HIGHEST probabilities not the LEAST most miniscule.

But you wouldn't understand that because "hate speech/microagressions" whatever TF that is lolol
I'll look them up on Google Scholar maybe that'll help me get smart like you.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

You remind me of people who make up narratives to fit the smallest potentiality of a substantially larger subject with 101 higher probabilities
and write that narrative to suit your own myopic view toward that 1 extremely unlikely potentiality.
So there we both remind eachother of people we find unpleasant.

A guy gained 25 pounds and feels terrible after behaving like a reckless child in a candy store for a ridiculous amount of time.
You don't gain 25 pounds in a day. You do it by repeating an unchecked behavior over time.
The most likely scenario is he ate himself into fatness and misery

not "blame the sugar"
the OP needs to be checked.
YES the OP is responsible for his predicament not sugar
"OMG the shaming the blaming" you can now scream in your sensitive little voice

That's your highest probability no citations needed.
Check Google Scholar it'll agree.

Not saying he doesn't need help.
He DOES need help.
"Help" = giving in intelligent information based upon the extremely limited information provided.
intelligent = a solution that involves the HIGHEST probabilities not the LEAST most miniscule.

But you wouldn't understand that because "hate speech/microagressions" whatever TF that is lolol
I'll look them up on Google Scholar maybe that'll help me get smart like you.

If the sugar that he ate is what is causing his symptoms, the sugar is what's causing his symptoms. The best part about this theory is that it can be confirmed or debunked simply by changing the diet for a period of time and seeing where you end up...

What's with your overbearing need to blame the guy? If you go look up "eating disorder" online you may find that it's not as simple as blaming the person for their actions regarding diet. Your attitude towards sugar is baffling, it's a freaking nutrient, a "foodstuff". Why would you be willing to throw a fellow human being under the buss to defend... food. Sure you could assert that sugar doesn't actually cause those symptoms but you're actually just blaming the guy for them instead of trying to logically defend sugar... Gosh, I can't remember the word for that... Deflection? Yeah, that's it.