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Freaking Out about Blood Sugar

JDW

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27
Greetings Everyone.

I'm a brand new Peatarian (like BRAND new) but I've been reading about him for months and I've been transitioning my kids to his way of eating for the past couple of weeks. I finally took the plunge for myself today (not well planned) and let me tell you, I am literally freaking out having a panic attack.

My blood sugar is through the roof. I wasn't able to test this morning BUT I did test many times throughout the day.

Breakfast - egg with cheddar, 2 slices of watermelon, roughly 6 oz. of salted OJ

Snack - Coffee with LOTS of HnH, MCT oil, sugar and 1TB gelatin

BS - 270 (I breathed through it and trusted the process)

I heard that OJ can actually reduce blood sugar as well as raise it so for lunch I had another 6 oz of salted OJ, some swiss cheese, and a handful of grapes.

1 hr blood sugar - 360 (I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a number in the 3 hundred. PANIC.) :shock:

Snack - another coffee with HnH, sugar, and 1TB of Gelatin.

BS at roughly an hour - 280

I've also been literally RAVENOUS... I want to chew my own leg off. And, I'm physically exhausted.

Can someone please tell me this is normal? Please tell me I'm not going to go blind from high sugars. Please tell me this is going to work. I know I've read all the articles and read all the message boards but it's not helping alleviate my utter HORROR at my BG numbers.

HELP... :cry:
 
J

j.

Guest
I couldn't handle sugar at the beginning. I went for about 3 months without polyunsaturated fats, that's the only advice I followed at the beginning, and 3 months later I was able to eat tons of sugar without discomfort.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
22
got milk? My experience in the my month or so of peating is that my diet predominantly revolves around salted, syruped, coffee'd and cocoa'ed milk. Finding your happy balance for your milk concoction has to be the first step. OJ's good but it's job it's job is to provide fructose as a first energy source to liberate the energy in your sweetened milk which in turn liberates the energy from fats/proteins. It's kinda like a fire and oj is the kindling, milk is the smaller pieces of wood( to be clear were talking upwards of a half gallon a day) that make a coal bed so that you can then burn the logs which are the fats/proteins. Anyways good luck.
 

JDW

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Oct 22, 2012
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j. said:
I couldn't handle sugar at the beginning. I went for about 3 months without polyunsaturated fats, that's the only advice I followed at the beginning, and 3 months later I was able to eat tons of sugar without discomfort.
Here's hoping but this is scary as HECK! I know I need to give it time.

texas peatatarian said:
got milk? My experience in the my month or so of peating is that my diet predominantly revolves around salted, syruped, coffee'd and cocoa'ed milk. Finding your happy balance for your milk concoction has to be the first step. OJ's good but it's job it's job is to provide fructose as a first energy source to liberate the energy in your sweetened milk which in turn liberates the energy from fats/proteins. It's kinda like a fire and oj is the kindling, milk is the smaller pieces of wood( to be clear were talking upwards of a half gallon a day) that make a coal bed so that you can then burn the logs which are the fats/proteins. Anyways good luck.
OK. More milk... I sorta figured I'd need more milk. It's always been sorta repulsive to me but I'm working on it slowly but surely.

Thanks for the response!
 

JDW

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Oct 22, 2012
Messages
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Let me ask you, is it important to keep sugar under control OR is it better to plow forward regardless of the number on my meter? How long does it take for the body to adapt and the sugar levels to come down?
 
Joined
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I'm no expert, but you can read some of my other posts to see if they are at all helpful. But If your feeling discomfort your not going to be able to plow through anything. My success with peating comes moment by moment. By and large I'm feeling better energy, mood etc. but this requires constant vigilance identifying and minimizing the many stresses I encounter from diet, work, and life in general.
 

JDW

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Oct 22, 2012
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texas peatatarian said:
I'm no expert, but you can read some of my other posts to see if they are at all helpful. But If your feeling discomfort your not going to be able to plow through anything. My success with peating comes moment by moment. By and large I'm feeling better energy, mood etc. but this requires constant vigilance identifying and minimizing the many stresses I encounter from diet, work, and life in general.

I will read your posts as I'm sure they hold a lot of info!! And I appreciate you trying to help me... it's VERY much appreciated! Your tidbit about the fire clarified the milk/OJ thing for me. To be honest, I've been reading for months but somehow I still don't have all the pieces and feel a little bewildered.

I'm not uncomfortable in the typical sense of the word. The sugars aren't causing me physical discomfort but rather mental discomfort. They scare me BUT I'm not sure they are avoidable. As a diabetic, even without sugar, to keep my numbers in check I'd have to eat no fruit, drink no milk and have no potato or squash. I would be eating an almost ketogenic diet which I know doesn't work long-term not to mention I hate eating that way.

I was hoping to find another diabetic who succeeded at this. Someone to say, "hey, this is normal... my sugars fluctuated wildly but eventually it will sort itself out." I just don't find a lot of diabetics doing the Peat thing BUT it seems that he may be JUST the thing we need.

It's scary and I feel like I leapt off the side of a cliff.

I had a big glass of milk with a bit of chocolate before bed... :shock: I have truly lost my mind.
 
J

j.

Guest
RP thinks polyunsaturated fats contribute to diabetes. One thing you could do, which is what I did, is just completely stop consuming polyunsaturated fats for 3 to 6 months, and do only that, if you don't want to try other aspects of the diet yet. Avoiding polyunsaturated fats is the most important part of Peating, in my view. To avoid PUFAs, you simply need to use coconut oil instead of any other oil. Avoid margarine and mayo. Avoid most nuts, except maybe those low in PUFAs like macadamia. Beef fat is preferable to fish or chicken fat, because the latter have a lot of PUFAs.

I should say that I have no idea whether coconut oil is compatible with diabetes or your medication.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
22
Carrot or carrot salad is also a must. IMO how you feel is the most important thing, it's hard to relax about something and obsess about it at the same time. You'll know your making progress when you don't feel like eating your own leg.
 

JDW

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Thread starter
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27
j. said:
RP thinks polyunsaturated fats contribute to diabetes. One thing you could do, which is what I did, is just completely stop consuming polyunsaturated fats for 3 to 6 months, and do only that, if you don't want to try other aspects of the diet yet. Avoiding polyunsaturated fats is the most important part of Peating, in my view. To avoid PUFAs, you simply need to use coconut oil instead of any other oil. Avoid margarine and mayo. Avoid most nuts, except maybe those low in PUFAs like macadamia. Beef fat is preferable to fish or chicken fat, because the latter have a lot of PUFAs.

I should say that I have no idea whether coconut oil is compatible with diabetes or your medication.

Coconut oil is fine... I have tons of it but the virgin stuff. I ordered some refined because frankly, I grew weary of the flavor of the virgin oil. Blech. I did put MCT oil in my carrot salad yesterday.

The PUFA part I've been trying to do for a couple of weeks as I've transferred my kids over to Peat-Eats. I've only been using grassed butter, Ghee or beef tallow. I'm using grassed organic milk and gelatin. I am still doing a little organic chicken breast for them but sans skin. They hate coconut oil so I'm hoping the refined stuff will have less flavor.

Did you have blood sugar issues?

I'm trying to stay calm but I had a fasting sugar of 239 this AM and after having 8oz of milk and 6oz of juice with gelatin my sugar is 386 an hour later! I know I could strictly avoid PUFA for a period of time but I'm anxious to start healing. If I don't do Peat, what do I do? I avoid PUFA but still do a ketogenic diet? Wouldn't that still 'F' with my thyroid? I'm still new to all of this and I don't have a problem looking past the sugars if I had some other diabetics who have healed to look to as an example. Have you seen any on the boards that I could hunt down?

Thanks so much for taking the time to advise... :)
 
G

gummybear

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texas peatatarian said:
Carrot or carrot salad is also a must. IMO how you feel is the most important thing, it's hard to relax about something and obsess about it at the same time. You'll know your making progress when you don't feel like eating your own leg.

The carrot (endoxin enemy) is just one of the remedies. There is a bunch load of stuff to think about

Unsaturated fat
Iron
Lactic acid
Estrogen (big one)
Serotonin
Light Deficency
Not enough sugar, or calcium, or protein etc etc

The list goes on.

The goal is to produce energy. And alot of things can disrupt that.
 

JDW

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Thread starter
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27
texas peatatarian said:
Carrot or carrot salad is also a must. IMO how you feel is the most important thing, it's hard to relax about something and obsess about it at the same time. You'll know your making progress when you don't feel like eating your own leg.

And I LOVED the carrot salad. I forgot to put that on yesterday's menu... I used MCT oil instead of coconut. Do you think that's fine?

So wanting to gnaw off limbs is normal in the early stages? Thank God! I've done 500 calorie diets that lasted over 30 days and didn't feel hungry. Wanting to EAT EAT EAT is a new one for me. And my body wants to eat but my mind is worried that if I'm sitting at a sugar of 385 and eat something else, I may end up in the 400's and frankly, that number sorta makes me want to shoot myself in the face. :evil:
 

JDW

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Thread starter
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27
gummybear said:
texas peatatarian said:
Carrot or carrot salad is also a must. IMO how you feel is the most important thing, it's hard to relax about something and obsess about it at the same time. You'll know your making progress when you don't feel like eating your own leg.

The carrot (endoxin enemy) is just one of the remedies. There is a bunch load of stuff to think about

Unsaturated fat
Iron
Lactic acid
Estrogen (big one)
Serotonin
Light Deficency
Not enough sugar, or calcium, or protein etc etc

The list goes on.

The goal is to produce energy. And alot of things can disrupt that.

So do you think that while balancing these things, I shouldn't be overtly worries about such high sugar levels? It's hard to get the numbers out of my head.

•I've removed the unsaturated fat but I'm sure it'll take a LONG time to get the PUFA's out of me...
•Iron - not sure about yet
•Lactic Acid - not sure about
•Estrogen - I'm taking Progest-E
•Seratonin - not sure about
•Light deficiency - I live in SW Florida so I doubt that's a problem although I could probably stand to get my whole body in the sun since my vitamin D levels are chronically low... low to the point of deficiency NOT just insufficiency
•The sugar/calcium/protein - That's what I'm actively working on but it's sending my sugar levels into the 300s so I'm second guessing everything.

Any tricks for getting this under control more quickly?
 
J

j.

Guest
JDW said:
j. said:
RP thinks polyunsaturated fats contribute to diabetes. One thing you could do, which is what I did, is just completely stop consuming polyunsaturated fats for 3 to 6 months, and do only that, if you don't want to try other aspects of the diet yet. Avoiding polyunsaturated fats is the most important part of Peating, in my view. To avoid PUFAs, you simply need to use coconut oil instead of any other oil. Avoid margarine and mayo. Avoid most nuts, except maybe those low in PUFAs like macadamia. Beef fat is preferable to fish or chicken fat, because the latter have a lot of PUFAs.

I should say that I have no idea whether coconut oil is compatible with diabetes or your medication.

Coconut oil is fine... I have tons of it but the virgin stuff. I ordered some refined because frankly, I grew weary of the flavor of the virgin oil. Blech. I did put MCT oil in my carrot salad yesterday.

The PUFA part I've been trying to do for a couple of weeks as I've transferred my kids over to Peat-Eats. I've only been using grassed butter, Ghee or beef tallow. I'm using grassed organic milk and gelatin. I am still doing a little organic chicken breast for them but sans skin. They hate coconut oil so I'm hoping the refined stuff will have less flavor.

Did you have blood sugar issues?

I'm trying to stay calm but I had a fasting sugar of 239 this AM and after having 8oz of milk and 6oz of juice with gelatin my sugar is 386 an hour later! I know I could strictly avoid PUFA for a period of time but I'm anxious to start healing. If I don't do Peat, what do I do? I avoid PUFA but still do a ketogenic diet? Wouldn't that still 'F' with my thyroid? I'm still new to all of this and I don't have a problem looking past the sugars if I had some other diabetics who have healed to look to as an example. Have you seen any on the boards that I could hunt down?

Thanks so much for taking the time to advise... :)

I would say don't exceed the amount of sugar that you can eat without feeling uncomfortable. If you are more comfortable with startch (bananas, apples, or even wheat) have more startch and less sugar. I consumed startch mostly at the beginning because I used to feel bad when I ate more than a limited amount of sugar. I have no known sugar issues today, and the discomfort I felt in the past when eating certain amount of sugar wasn't very serious.

Also, I'm clueless about diabetes and am probably wrong.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
22
No, wanting to gnaw is not been a part of my peat experience. But without drinking milk what you ate yesterday was fundamentally flawed, which is fine after all peating is about trial and error. But don't equate doing it wrong with being a part of the process.
 

peatarian

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Sep 18, 2012
Messages
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I have asked Ray Peat about high blood sugar (230) a few weeks ago. This was about a friend, male, older than 60.
Here is RPs answer:

"His cortisol is probably high. Aspirin and sodium bicarbonate, in small repeated amounts during the day, could help to lower his cortisol and blood sugar; taking vitamin K helps to lower inflammation, and he should be getting about 2000 mg of calcium per day, from cheese and milk."

This will not help within hours but over time!

Actually I think those numbers (220 - 360 - 400) are mostly numbers. Please don't freak out. Think about what you write: You would shoot yourself into the head if your blood sugar reached 400? What's the worst thing that might happen to you if that number was 400? Or 500? Are you going to explode? You'll certainly not die immediately. So obviously you're more afraid of the idea of a number indicating you might be sick than of the idea of dying. You are a victim of the medical system as most of us are. Its tools are fear and pressure. Try to take a deep breath (preferably more than one into a paper bag and that 5 times a day) and think about this logically. You are not an amoeba. You're a complex organism. Like most of us here you have spent your life until now doing many things absolutely wrong. Now you are changing that. Just by thinking about what might be good for you and how to get it, you tip the scale. You are on the way to being healthier. But being on the way doesn't mean being there. Give it time and put that blood glucose thingy in a drawer.

This is from the diabetes-article by Ray Peat, the whole article explains diabetes well. There is also something about it in the article about Multiple Sclerosis.

"I have known adults and children who were diagnosed as diabetic, and given insulin (and indoctrinated with the idea that they had a terminal degenerative disease) on the strength of a single test showing excessive glucose. When I taught at the naturopathic medical school in Portland, I tried to make it clear that "diabetes" (a term referring to excessive urination) is a function, and that a high level of glucose in the blood or urine is also a function, and that the use of insulin should require a greater diagnostic justification than the use of aspirin for a headache does, because insulin use itself constitutes a serious health problem. (And we seldom hear the idea that "diabetes" might have a positive side [Robinson and Johnston], for example that it reduces the symptoms of asthma [Vianna and Garcialeme], which get worse when insulin is given. Normal pregnancy can be considered "diabetic" by some definitions based on blood sugar."
 

JDW

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peatarian said:
I have asked Ray Peat about high blood sugar (230) a few weeks ago. This was about a friend, male, older than 60.
Here is RPs answer:

"His cortisol is probably high. Aspirin and sodium bicarbonate, in small repeated amounts during the day, could help to lower his cortisol and blood sugar; taking vitamin K helps to lower inflammation, and he should be getting about 2000 mg of calcium per day, from cheese and milk."

This will not help within hours but over time!

Actually I think those numbers (220 - 360 - 400) are mostly numbers. Please don't freak out. Think about what you write: You would shoot yourself into the head if your blood sugar reached 400? What's the worst thing that might happen to you if that number reached 400? Or 500? Are you going to explode? You'll certainly not die immediately. So obviously you're more afraid of the idea of a number indicating you might be sick than of the idea of dying. You are a victim of the medical system as most of us are. Its tools are fear and pressure. Try to take a deep breath (preferably more than one into a paper bag and that 5 times a day) and think about this logically. You are not an amoeba. You're a complex organism. Like most of us here you have spent your life until now doing many things absolutely wrong. Now you are changing that. Just by thinking about what might be good for you and how to get it, you tip the scale. You are on the way to being healthier. But being on the way doesn't mean being there. Give it time and put that blood glucose thingy in a drawer.

This is from the diabetes-article by Ray Peat, the whole article explains diabetes well. There is also something about it in the article about Multiple Sclerosis.

"I have known adults and children who were diagnosed as diabetic, and given insulin (and indoctrinated with the idea that they had a terminal degenerative disease) on the strength of a single test showing excessive glucose. When I taught at the naturopathic medical school in Portland, I tried to make it clear that "diabetes" (a term referring to excessive urination) is a function, and that a high level of glucose in the blood or urine is also a function, and that the use of insulin should require a greater diagnostic justification than the use of aspirin for a headache does, because insulin use itself constitutes a serious health problem. (And we seldom hear the idea that "diabetes" might have a positive side [Robinson and Johnston], for example that it reduces the symptoms of asthma [Vianna and Garcialeme], which get worse when insulin is given. Normal pregnancy can be considered "diabetic" by some definitions based on blood sugar."

Is it wrong to say, "I love you" over the internet?! LOL. Thank you so much. This was beyond helpful. I am anti-medical establishment 100%. I haven't been to a doc in years, don't take meds for my diabetes, and overall distrust the system. But, bats are obviously stuck in the belfry. I see numbers like that and I think of all the people who have lost their vision, or had limbs amputated, and I get so scared. I've always taken comfort in the fact that my diabetes, "wasn't that bad" and I controlled it with my diet (which no longer was controlling it) and by going against the "low-fat" grain of the medical establishment. So seeing my meter go over 270 into the 300's made me panic because like you said, it made me face "I'm sick" sorta head-on. So, this dialogue has been going through my head... "what if Peat's crazy? what if I'm crazy? How much permanent damage am I doing with sugars like this? How long should I let this last? I probably shouldn't put sugar in my milk today... that's gonna jack my sugar up even higher! I'm going to gain weight and it will be harder to keep my sugars in control if this little experiment fails." I think I would feel a lot better if I knew of other diabetics who succeeded but I sorta feel alone in this and its scary.

I need to stop obsessing... this is a process. It's like I've jumped off the cliff but I'm riding the wall down... grabbing and clawing and second guessing. I need to jump again and enjoy the ride instead.

Let me ask you, how is your friend doing? Does Ray have any diabetic "success stories" or is this untested theory when it comes to diabetics?How will I know my body is working better? Is pulse and body temp the grail or should I check in on blood sugar again in a few months?

Thank you... I feel 90% better and now I have to try and work on the other 10%.
 

JDW

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texas peatatarian said:
No, wanting to gnaw is not been a part of my peat experience. But without drinking milk what you ate yesterday was fundamentally flawed, which is fine after all peating is about trial and error. But don't equate doing it wrong with being a part of the process.

Awww, crap. OK, so do you man that if I drank more milk yesterday, the day's eating would have been pretty accurate? Or, are you saying that aside from the milk/HnH I drank in my coffees, everything else I did was wrong? LOL. It definitely is trial and error... it sure would be nice if he put together the "Peat Diet for Healthy Living" but then I suppose he'd be like everyone else and I wouldn't trust him all that much. :)

Hey, I know I keep saying it but thanks for the help. I'm always amazed at how people can be so giving of their time and help to total strangers!
 
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I only was commenting about the milk. But since you asked, I add salt to milk not oj, my coffee is coming strictly as instant added to my milk, milk is always salty to the taste.
 

peatarian

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JDW -- not at all, love is always welcome and I'll take it where I can get it.

I know the second guessing and the fear and the wondering and re-re-re-thinking all by yourself with no authority to ask for affirmation. But let me tell you this: After years and years of listening to people who should have helped me and made me worse I finally found Ray Peat. Of course I questioned him, too. I didn't know him. Everything he says is 180 degrees from what others say. Even when there are some who have the same opinion - it's usually for the wrong reasons. And once you've start questioning and doubting and searching you find out that so much of your 'knowledge' is an illusion or a lie. So it's pretty hard to believe anybody anything.

I have been in much, much worse situations than what you are going trough. Let's say you are standing in the rain - I was swimming in a stormy ocean. After a while I found out that whenever Ray Peat gave me an advice and I listened - it worked out. Every single time. Over the years he has supported me, my entire family and all my friends. With problems ranging from writer's block over genital fungus to cancer and 'autoimmune diseases'. He always has an answer and he always helps. When he tells you something 'might help' you can be sure it will help. If he tells you something 'should better be avoided' you try to get as far away from it as possible.

As for 'diabetes' ... My friend hasn't had any problems. He wasn't in pain or anything. And since he hasn't used his blood sugar machine during the last weeks I suppose that his stress level and by that his cortisol level has dropped. So I am pretty sure his blood sugar will be lower, too. He is doing everything Ray Peat advised but he is also eating lots and lots of sugar. He tells me his temperature is rising constantly (not fewer, just metabolism). I suppose he will use the machine in a few weeks and I will let you know then. But he doesn't really care that much anymore. 'Diabetes' is just a word. The terrible things you associate with it usually occur because of insulin treatment and you don't use insulin, do you? Yes, high blood sugar over a long time can harm you. But that is if you don't do the right things to adjust. You are already doing them.

I think it's a major decision whether you need to know these medical parameters. Ray Peat hardly ever asks about them and I feel like these tests cause a lot of stress and fear. Medical tests usually make sense only in regard to a diagnoses and a treatment. The diagnoses is a name, the treatment a pill (or several). If you don't need the pills, why go through the tests?

Try not to worry, JDW. There is nothing that can't be repaired under the right circumstances.

"For example, a woman who was 6 months pregnant called me around 10 o'clock one morning, to say that she had gone blind, and was alone in her country house. She said she had just eaten breakfast around 9 AM, and wasn't hungry, but I knew that the 6 month fetus has a great need for glucose, so I urged her to eat some fruit. She called me 15 minutes later to report that she had eaten a banana, and her vision had returned."
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/eclampsia.shtml

And this one: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gl ... etes.shtml

Don't forget sugar, salt and protein!
 

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