Formula for calories

Aussiepopeye

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Hey Peatians,

Just wondering if anyone knows a formula to work out a starting point for calories. Guess it should include activity levels for people who want to cycle macros throughout the week?? I know some want body fat%...

I've seen here that % have been stated at roughly 25% fat, 25% protein, 50% carbs. (Might need tweaking for individuals)

Anyway, I don't know which formula to use so any ideas would be helpful :)
 

tara

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My take is that most standard calorie calculators suggest calories too low to maintain a healthy metabolism, at least partly because they are based on poor data collected from what peolple say they eat, not what they actually eat.

I haven't seen Peat talk about specific calorie recommendations often, though there was a quote were he talked about 130-150 g protein in a normal 3000 cal diet. For people who are hypothyroid, he suggests 80-100 g protein.
I haven't seen anything from him to suggest cycling macros though the week. He tends to generally favour mixed meals for blood sugar balance, optimal protein use, and optimal absorption of nutrients.

I found Gwyneth's calorie recommendations at youreatopia.com eye opening, and I think they may be on a sounder footing than many. It's a site about recovering from anorexia etc (which no-one has every said applies to me). She says that based on measurements average weight-stable non-dieting women actually eat about 2500 cals, and need ~500cals more in late teens and early twenties to complete the growth required to mature fully. This not from Peat, and no everyone here agrees.
More would be needed by a woman who was doing hard physical labour or exercise.

Uncontroversially, underreating or overexercising are quite efficient ways to undermine thyroid function and metabolism, which can be a key contributor to reproductive hormone disruption.

So are PUFAs. I guess you've found by now that Peat recommends getting PUFAs very low, ideally under 4g, so the fat component would ideally be as saturated as possible.
 
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Aussiepopeye

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Wow Tara, your a legend thankyou!!., I will check out the site . I don't want to under or overeat. And i am being very careful of pufas. After 20 years of taking fish oil and eating what you thought was right and being healthy it's a big life change.
I threw a lot out of the fridge and pantry that I thought were ok- almond milk, all my nuts , oats, quinoa etc. the fitness industry which I'm a part of teaches you these are ok. It's daunting :shock:
The zone diet uses blocks of p,c,f so I was considering the size of a particular block as a guide then modifying to RP food guidelines.
Thankyou for all the information
 

purelaur

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well, I think certain types do better on certain diets. There are people thrive on vegan diets, because their bodies are better at digesting pufas and nuts and grains. Great for them. Then there are those of us who have bounced around from different "diet cults" because everything makes us feel kind of shitty. Peating is sort of going against the grain, testing what the diet industry tells you, and finding what works for your body. There is no one "Peat diet" because each of us do it a little differently depending on what stage we are currently in. Learn the basics and tweak it to fit :)
 
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Aussiepopeye said:
Hey Peatians,

Just wondering if anyone knows a formula to work out a starting point for calories. Guess it should include activity levels for people who want to cycle macros throughout the week?? I know some want body fat%...

I've seen here that % have been stated at roughly 25% fat, 25% protein, 50% carbs. (Might need tweaking for individuals)

Anyway, I don't know which formula to use so any ideas would be helpful :)
Managing PUFAs is what matters most in the beginning. You need to safely shuttle those PUFAs out through the urine and the albumin, or possibly burn them in muscle. You don't want to release them into the blood stream, which is what happens with rapid weight loss.

The safest route is to go zero PUFAs if you can, but that's hard. Next best is to use foods that are low in PUFAs such as coconut oil (2%), cocoa butter (3%) and well, that's pretty much it. Most other fatty foods have even more PUFAs than that.

How many calories to eat? Start by tape measuring your neck below the adams apple, and the narrowest part of your waist (and if you're a woman, widest part of the hips).

Track how many calories you eat on something like cronometer.com and then watch those tape measure readings. If the waist and hips are decreasing, you may not be eating enough, and actually harming your metabolism. If the the waist and hips are increasing, you may be eating a little too much. The ideal is to keep waist and hips about the same, while your neck increases, which correlates to increases in your lean body mass of skeleton, organs and muscle.

But in general, it's better to err on the side of too much than too little, when starting out. You don't want those PUFAs flooding into your bloodstream when you are starving!

What proportion of carbs to protein? At least one to one, but if you are stressed/anxious/depressed/fatigued, just increase the carbs -- especially the fructose, not the starch -- until you feel better. Think of sugar as really potent medicine. As long as your dietary PUFAs are low, you almost can't have too much. Mother's milk has a 4:1 ratio or more of sugar to protein!

Along with PUFAs you need to reduce: 1) glucose/cortisol ups and downs from stress (lots of small meals may help); and 2) endotoxins from intestinal irritants (raw carrot with salt and coconut oil may help).

I'd also suggest at least taking a glimpse at the proposed RDAs to help in thinking about the various components of Peatian nutrients. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5551&start=30#p66013

Careful though. The actual dosages that work for you are always something you need to customize carefully to your own personal needs, based on things like headache, nausea, constipation or diarrhea, and ultimately, your own metabolic condition.

Peatian nutrition really is pretty easy in concept, if only you could somehow find really good food to put in your mouth.

But in practice, good food may be hard to come by, and progress in reducing PUFAs, cortisol and endotoxins may be slow.

Please don't be discouraged: it's not you, it's this very mad world we live in, with estrogenic contaminants everywhere in our food supply.
 

Kasra

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In this study, three freshly-weaned babies were allowed to select their own foods. I calculated some rough macros based on the data - the ranges were 17-22% protein, 24-49% fat, and 31-60% carbs.

o4j695X.jpg


In this paper, surveys of different groups of elite athletes found that they ate similar macronutrient ratios (12-26% protein, 29-49% fat, 33-57% carbs.)

hDQRmyZ.jpg
 
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Kasra said:
In this study, three freshly-weaned babies were allowed to select their own foods. I calculated some rough macros based on the data - the ranges were 17-22% protein, 24-49% fat, and 31-60% carbs.

o4j695X.jpg


In this paper, surveys of different groups of elite athletes found that they ate similar macronutrient ratios (12-26% protein, 29-49% fat, 33-57% carbs.)

hDQRmyZ.jpg
Is there a sense of what kind of fats? The Peatian idea is that we start out with high metabolic rates, eat PUFAs (or the mother does even while the baby is in the womb), and hence suffer gradual, relentless metabolic decline. It's a compelling narrative.

Athletes who eat PUFAs may be the worst off, often suffering tragic degeneration later in life.
 

Kasra

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visionofstrength said:
Is there a sense of what kind of fats?

The majority of fat in the baby study was from whole milk and bone marrow, so PUFA intake was very low.

I'm not sure about the athletes.
 
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Kasra said:
visionofstrength said:
Is there a sense of what kind of fats?

The majority of fat in the baby study was from whole milk and bone marrow, so PUFA intake was very low.

I'm not sure about the athletes.
Yes, it seems an open question in Peatian terms how much saturated fat is good for you. Do you have a view? Even if it's not altogether in line with whatever Peat may think? I know some here have argued persuasively for a somewhat higher proportion of saturated fat, and lower carb, and I don't mean to dismiss that view if you share it?
 

Kasra

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visionofstrength said:
Yes, it seems an open question in Peatian terms how much saturated fat is good for you. Do you have a view? Even if it's not altogether in line with whatever Peat may think? I know some here have argued persuasively for a somewhat higher proportion of saturated fat, and lower carb, and I don't mean to dismiss that view if you share it?

If I go too low on fat or carbs, I feel cold and don't sleep well. The main reason I can think of for not going too low on fat is to maintain androgen production.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/64/6/850.short
 
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Aussiepopeye

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Wow guys this information is amazing, I'm totally blown away by it thankyou.
I was reading a magazine today ( waiting at the hairdresser) and it was listing all the different diets celebrities are on - the zone, the paleo, the alkaline etc. everyone tries to lose weight and be healthy but they have no idea at all do they? It's frightening.
And I was taking fish oil when I was pregnant with my last few kids thinking I was doing them a service- and I mean 9-12 tablets a day!!
Am definitely removing all pufas and need protest e as well for pmdd by the sounds of it.
It's exciting looking ahead to a future of normal hormones and truly eating well
Thanks guys :)
 

tara

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Aussiepopeye said:
Wow Tara, your a legend thankyou!!., I will check out the site . I don't want to under or overeat. And i am being very careful of pufas. After 20 years of taking fish oil and eating what you thought was right and being healthy it's a big life change.
I threw a lot out of the fridge and pantry that I thought were ok- almond milk, all my nuts , oats, quinoa etc. the fitness industry which I'm a part of teaches you these are ok. It's daunting :shock:
The zone diet uses blocks of p,c,f so I was considering the size of a particular block as a guide then modifying to RP food guidelines.
Thankyou for all the information
I know what you mean about thinking you were eating right and healthy. I had trouble with milk and used a lot of soy milk and margarine (though fortunately olive oil) for years, and ate lots of various whole grains and pulses, and yes, I got through a few fish oil capsules too, dammit. :) I put the canola oil in the garage in case it 's handy for oiling wood or something sometime. Very occasionally I still have a bowl of porridge, and I haven't thrown out all the qinoa yet, in case I get a hankering for pancakes. It is so liberating knowing that I don't need to avoid sugar any longer, and butter and coconut oil surely taste better than any other vege oils. :)

If you are going to modify that zone block, it might be helpful to assess that in conjunction with how hot your metabolism (thyroid function) is running, and maybe also how much you have been eating - but whatever you pick is probably best seen as a starting point, that you modify as you observe the effects. I'd suggest starting with at least 2:1 carb:protein, preferably with more sugar than starch.
 
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Aussiepopeye

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Hey Vos, just wondering what you meant by "
"you don't want those puffs flooding your blood stream when you are starving". I am learning as I go but can you - or anyone- explain to me why this is so? Or point me in the direction of RPs article so I can read it ?

You see the best way for people to lose body fat while training is to do HIT intervals first, then rest totally for a timed 5 mins so fat enters your blood stream . You then go and do your steady state for however long you want. This burns twice as much fat as opposed to doing them separately. Lyle McDonald writes about this and explains this in his work. You can then go and do a set of longer intervals to totally deplete yourself and burn even more although he doesn't recommend the average person doing this second bout of intervals, or very often.
 
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Aussiepopeye

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Oh and I recorded what I ate for the very first day. Was a ratio of 70g fat, 78g protein and180g carbs - 1700 calories. Prob not enough calories and too much fat??
 
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Aussiepopeye said:
Hey Vos, just wondering what you meant by "
"you don't want those puffs flooding your blood stream when you are starving". I am learning as I go but can you - or anyone- explain to me why this is so? Or point me in the direction of RPs article so I can read it ?

You see the best way for people to lose body fat while training is to do HIT intervals first, then rest totally for a timed 5 mins so fat enters your blood stream . You then go and do your steady state for however long you want. This burns twice as much fat as opposed to doing them separately. Lyle McDonald writes about this and explains this in his work. You can then go and do a set of longer intervals to totally deplete yourself and burn even more although he doesn't recommend the average person doing this second bout of intervals, or very often.
That may well be, according to Lyle, but that would not be Peat's advice on exercise, at all. The last thing you would want is to be burning Poly Unsaturated Fatty Acids (PUFAs) for energy. Picture what happens when you put vegetable oil. loaded with PUFAs, on a hot griddle... Smoke!!! That's the same nasty poisonous residue you get inside your body when you burn PUFAs.

Luckily, you only burn PUFAs when you run out of good forms of energy. If you're going to exercise make sure you have a little baking soda and fructose before and after the exercise. Stop exercising before you get winded or feel the burn.

Short contractions of your muscles are best, followed immediately by a rest while the muscle extends -- Peat compares the best exercise to a heart muscle beating... contract, rest, contract, rest...
 
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Aussiepopeye said:
Oh and I recorded what I ate for the very first day. Was a ratio of 70g fat, 78g protein and180g carbs - 1700 calories. Prob not enough calories and too much fat??
Depends on what kind of fat: was it poly unsaturated fat (PUFAs)?

1,700 calories is not much at all, but if you have a very low metabolism that may be all you actually burn in a day. What is your body temperature and pulse as soon as you open your eyes upon waking?
 
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Aussiepopeye

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Fats were from cheese, yolk, coconut oil.
It's probably not enough but I've just begun tracking for the last few days. Have seen on the forum everyone is taking their pulse and temp so I need to go and buy a thermometer. Did check it mid morning out of curiosity yesterday and resting pulse rate was 74 bom
I guess exercise will be interesting then as I do a lot of Crossfit. Might have to go back to the traditional gym stuff with TuT
 

tara

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If I were you. I wouldn't worry about lowering the fat at least at this stage, but maybe try to bump up the protein a bit , and carbs more, to get your overall calories up. Once you've done that for a while, if you wanted to you could experiment with swapping out some of the fats for carbs to see if that improves things more for you. For some people it seems to, for others not.

If the main aim is to get rid of fat as fast as possible, Lyle's methods may work. If the purpose is to improve health, Peat says letting unsaturated fats (PUFAs and to a lesser extent MUFAs) be detoxified slowly is safer. I think VoS's reference to smoke was metaphorical, but he is right that releasing PUFAs into the bloodstream does contribute to a number of toxic chemicals and antimetabolic effects.

Here is one of Peat's articles on fats; you can find others on his articles page:
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/un ... fats.shtml
 
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Aussiepopeye said:
Fats were from cheese, yolk, coconut oil.
It's probably not enough but I've just begun tracking for the last few days. Have seen on the forum everyone is taking their pulse and temp so I need to go and buy a thermometer. Did check it mid morning out of curiosity yesterday and resting pulse rate was 74 bom
I guess exercise will be interesting then as I do a lot of Crossfit. Might have to go back to the traditional gym stuff with TuT
Yes, it's unfortunate how all the diets and exercise programs that claim to make you burn fat only make you more fat eventually, as it gets harder and harder to maintain what you think you lost.

The reason is that when you actually burn fatty acids your body builds up a metabolic energy deficit, similar to starving, which it then fights to protect against by storing even more fat as soon as it can.

I've posted about it over here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5525&p=67177#p67177
 

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