For Those Who "crave" Starch, Are You Sure It's Not The Fiber Or The Salt?

[Such_Saturation]

How is you no-added-salt experiment going?

 

[Travis]

The 1∶10 ratio could be a bit high, I think most natural foods were probably closer to 1∶8 on average—which depends on how many foods you look at. I have looked at the ratios found in beef and various plants and fruit. But even 1∶4 is a great improvement over the standard American diet, which approaches unity and can even be found inverted in inner cities. Of course sodium is a physiological ion and is in no way 'toxic,' but the main criticism against it is that it will almost certainly raise blood pressure over time. The sodium potassium ratio can also effect the membrane potential, which can in turn affect metabolism.

 

[nbznj]

I have wondered whether there is a difference between salt requirements of those who swim in sea vs those who don't. Most of human evolution has probably happened near oceans where getting enough salt was convenient.

It's possible sea salt is absorbed which then requires a bit of tweaking. My GF and I went to the Caribbean during Xmas break, she avoids salt at all costs and is slightly hypothyroid IMO, she has some signs. Whereas I've been close to 1.0 TSH as far as I can remember, am never cold even in the Canadian winter unless it's friggin single digits, you get the picture.

The sea salt transformed her skin, hair, energy... She still wasn't salting anything. So I'd guess that helped her a lot. I was salting my foods as usual - my health didn't improve. Probably too much salt? Hard to tell.

 

[Wagner83]

Sunlight? Heat?

 

[michael94]

I don't really know, I don't get it too often and I always have starch or some junk food at hand I've had partial success with simple sugars, salt, coconut oil. It sucks because apart from the cravings, my body works better than usual then, but it's hard to bear. It almost feels like you are breaking a threshold and need some kind of opiaceous feeling to bring you back down to comfort, as if you aren't ready for that state yet.

Yea. Like a certain part of you is ready but it all has to come together under the right circumstances because youll be torn apart... or the victory will be fleeting.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Yea. Like a certain part of you is ready but it all has to come together under the right circumstances because youll be torn apart... or the victory will be fleeting.

Ah I see you also did acid

 

[EIRE24]

Sunlight? Heat?

I'd be putting it down to the sunlight too. Powerful stuff.

 

[mipp]

Zero starch high sugar diet will eventually make me fantasize about food that isn't sweet, is filling, firm or crunchy, can be bitten and chewed. I usually crave wheat in various forms, some rice. potatoes to a lesser degree. Dried fruit and a glass of salt water won't really satisfy me at this point.

 

[johnwester130]

Zero starch high sugar diet will eventually make me fantasize about food that isn't sweet, is filling, firm or crunchy, can be bitten and chewed. I usually crave wheat in various forms, some rice. potatoes to a lesser degree. Dried fruit and a glass of salt water won't really satisfy me at this point.

salted cheese

orange juice/coconut water/gelatin with salt also works

 

[Vinero]

We crave starch because the human being is the only animal to consume cooked starch in its natural diet and the human being the highest producing savilary and pancreatic amylase producing animal, the enzyme that breaks down starch. We were cooking starch before we were human in this form.

Our craving for carbohydrate varies from sweet to soothing and savory. It's not about salt. It's about satiation from carbohydrate. Many people will tell you that they don't feel well on fruit and lactose as their main carb sources. Starch solves their problem. Not salt. You don't know about it because they don't post publicly here too much.

Fruit is a light fuel for many. Starch is more energy producing for these types.

What do you think are the safest starches to consume?

 

[nbznj]

I'd go with bananas, yams/potatoes puréed, carrots. I'm not him tho, but those are the only ones I consume and they are the only ones to fill 100% fine.

Basically I'd avoid all grains. It's being misinformed to keep consuming them. This documentary makes a great job at giving information in a layman-ish way:

What's with Wheat | Netflix

 

[ilikecats]

Being on this forum sometimes feels like being in the movie Groundhog Day.... do you have any idea how many times this subject has been brought up? And do you realize how many times people have made these same arguments/ counter arguments that you find in this thread?

 

[lollipop]

Being on this forum sometimes feels like being in the movie Groundhog Day.... do you have any idea how many times this subject has been brought up? And do you realize how many times people have made these same arguments/ counter arguments that you find in this thread?

I also noticed certain repetition. I have surmised mainly from an ever revolving door of new people coming and going. IMO and I could be wrong. I also find it nice to see new people to the forum grappling with ways to serve their health needs.

 

[tara]

but how else can you get salt in the diet ? dried fruit wouldn't work

If you want ways to eat salt without starch, then I find I can add a fair bit of salt to:
- broth
- eggs
- meat, including fish, liver etc.
- tomatoes or other veges
And if cheese is not salty enough in itself then add salt to that (if you eat cheese). Cheese can be eaten melted or not by itself, or with non-starchy fruit or veges.

 

[tara]

I think the "starch' craving is simply a need for dense calories or salt.

Speak for yourself.

It's not about salt. It's about satiation from carbohydrate. Many people will tell you that they don't feel well on fruit and lactose as their main carb sources. Starch solves their problem. Not salt.

This describes me, as far as I can tell. Eating dense sugar till I feel sick, with well-salted protein, does not do it.

Being on this forum sometimes feels like being in the movie Groundhog Day.... do you have any idea how many times this subject has been brought up?

Lol. Yeah. And I know I participate in the repeats. I don't like being told that someone else knows my experience better than I do, and I don't want newbies to get just the one side of the story, so I get tempted to respond ... again. :)

 

[DaveFoster]

Hypothyroidism promotes aldosterone synthesis, which itself causes hyponatremia (the losing of sodium in the urine.)

Euthyroidism (good thyroid function) diminishes starch cravings in favor of sugars, and the lowering of aldosterone and improved retention of sodium renders excess salt unnecessary.

 

[tara]

Euthyroidism (good thyroid function) diminishes starch cravings in favor of sugars,

Where did you get this from?

 

[theLaw]

Speak for yourself.

This describes me, as far as I can tell. Eating dense sugar till I feel sick, with well-salted protein, does not do it.

I did, hence the "I think" at the beginning.

Sounds like liver issues.

 

[DaveFoster]

Where did you get this from?

I should've said that caffeine diminishes starch cravings in favor of sugar.

"Excessive sugar-sweetened beverage (SSB) consumption has been associated with overweight and obesity. Caffeine is a common additive to SSB, and through dependence effects, it has the potential to promote the consumption of caffeine-containing foods. The objective of the present study was to assess the influence that caffeine has on the consumption of SSB. Participants (n 99) were blindly assigned to either a caffeinated SSB (C-SSB) or a non-caffeinated SSB (NC-SSB) group. Following randomisation, all participants completed a 9 d flavour-conditioning paradigm. They then completed a 28 d ad libitum intake intervention where they consumed as much or as little of C-SSB or NC-SSB as desired. The amount consumed (ml) was recorded daily, 4 d diet diaries were collected and liking of SSB was assessed at the start and end of the intervention. Participants (n 50) consuming the C-SSB had a daily SSB intake of 419 (sd 298) ml (785 (sd 559) kJ/d) over the 28 d intervention, significantly more than participants (n 49) consuming the NC-SSB (273 (sd 278) ml/d, 512 (sd 521) kJ/d) (P< 0·001). A trained flavour panel (n 30) found no difference in flavour between the C-SSB and NC-SSB (P>0·05). However, participants who consumed the C-SSB liked the SSB more than those who consumed the NC-SSB (6·3 v. 6·0 on a nine-point hedonic scale, P= 0·022). The addition of low concentrations of caffeine to the SSB significantly increases the consumption of the SSB. Regulating caffeine as a food additive may be an effective strategy to decrease the consumption of nutrient-poor high-energy foods and beverages."

Reference: Caffeine increases sugar-sweetened beverage consumption in a free-living population: a randomised controlled trial

Dr. Ray Peat: The absorption and retention of magnesium, sodium, and copper, and the synthesis of proteins, are usually poor in hypothyroidism. Salt craving is common in hypothyroidism, and eating additional sodium tends to raise the body temperature, and by decreasing the production of aldosterone, it helps to minimize the loss of magnesium, which in turn allows cells to respond better to the thyroid hormone. This is probably why a low sodium diet increases adrenalin production, and why eating enough sodium lowers adrenalin and improves sleep. The lowered adrenalin is also likely to improve intestinal motility.

Reference: An Interview With Dr. Raymond Peat: A Renowned Nutritional Counselor Offers His Thoughts About Thyroid Disease / Thyroid Disease Information Source - Articles/FAQs

 

[tara]

I did, hence the "I think" at the beginning.

That phrase says you are describing your own thoughts, not your own personal experience. It looked like you thought something that was generally applicable, ie that applied to my experience too.

Sounds like liver issues.

Possibly.
I suspect my liver doesn't like being overloaded with too much sugar or too much fat at once. But it doesn't seem to object to starchy foods in satisfying quantities themselves (as long as other factors are also taken into account - eg minerals, transit, etc).
This doesn't seem to be unusual. I'm not convinced that it is pathological, though maybe it sometimes reflects pathology. It might be that starchivores are normal too. I'm not aware of adequate data to definitively prove/disprove one way or the other.

In the meantime, eating what works better for us is probably a good idea.