For Fat Loss: Eat No Fat Or Eat Some Coconut Oil?

[encerent]

To get lean should I go no fat, or should I keep some coconut oil, maybe 3-4 tablespoons?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Body fat is a white gooey substance called adipose tissue. There are two kinds of fat; subcutaneous fat, which is the vital thin layer of fat under your skin, and visceral fat, which is the dangerous fat that builds up around your organs. It can also go to the thighs and upper arms but the rest of the bloat you see in an overweight person around their neck/face/feet/lower arms/hands is mostly water/fluid from salt. The only way to get rid of body fat is a process called lipolysis. Fat is one of the storage organs of animals and plants. It makes no sense to eat the storage organ of another animal or plant if your goal is to get rid of your own storage organ. That's where a HCLF diet comes in. You get rid of body fat by breathing it out but that only happens if you force your body to use it's stored fat. Coconut fat is a special kind of fat, MCT, but I think 1 tablespoon per day is enough. I do think CO should be the only fat that one consumes when their goal is fat loss. It takes time. The normal pace is about two pounds per week. Not all of it will be fat. Some of it will be water (depending on your salt intake) and food still in your GI and some may be muscle depending if you're building muscle or losing it. The biggest problem I see with people wanting to lose body fat is they eat too much dairy fat. Not everyone has the patience and determination to really stick to a fat loss lifestyle long term. If someone is overweight, meaning they have excess body fat, that means that they haven't been eating healthy for a while. Therefore, it takes a major change for them to truly succeed. No, that doesn't mean they have to starve (which is actually an incorrect use of that word because starvation is when you run out of adipose tissue and muscle and you're close to death because you're now burning your organs for sugar) but it does mean change.

“Some muscle-building resistance exercise might help to increase the anabolic ratio, reducing the belly fat.”-RP

Positive Peat Quotes On Exercise

Being overweight can hurt more than just your looks (diagram)

 

[encerent]

Thanks for the answer and explanations!

Love those quotes of RP on exercise too. I already do light walks and occasional lifting.

I'll reduce the CO for a bit and see how it goes.

RP did mention that the more coconut oil he consumed, the more weight lost:

"But over the next few months, I saw that my weight was slowly and consistently decreasing. It had been steady at 185 pounds for 25 years, but over a period of six months it dropped to about 175 pounds. I found that eating more coconut oil lowered my weight another few pounds, and eating less caused it to increase."

 

[Westside PUFAs]

In one of the Herb Doctor shows, Sarah asked him about someone wanting to swallow 3-5 tablespoons of CO oil per day and he said no, more like 1 tbsp. I'm still trying to find that clip.

 

[DrJ]

It's also important to get your calcium-to-phosphate ratio up to lose weight. It's been working for me. See this, especially the first quote:

Calcium to Phosphorus Ratio, PTH, and Bone Health – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[tca300]

Calories are what matters. You can drop your fat to 5 grams per day and still gain weight ( fat ) if your eating too much. Keeping your sugars high to keep thyroid up is very important. I can maintain my weight on 5% calories from fat @ 2800 calories, but if I add 2-3 tbsp of hydrogenated coconut oil my body weight starts going down, seemingly because of the increase in metabolism. Basically the higher the metabolism the more you can eat and either maintain or lose weight ( fat ). Calories are still the end all be all. This has been a passion of mine for over 10 years, and I still find it strange that people think its about macronutrients specifically, not calories. Ya, adjusting the macronutrients can allow for more calories to be eaten, but at some point you can screw up your weight loss with too many calories. Find a diet you enjoy, then experiment with how many calories you need on that specific diet to maintain your weight ( through trial and error ) then either eat a little less than maintenance, or eat at your maintenance and burn extra calories through exercise, preferably walking and strength training. Best of luck!

 

[DaveFoster]

The easiest way to lose fat: increase DHT.

Coconut oil should be consumed for reasons well beyond its facilitation of weight loss.

 

[paymanz]

Its my big question for a while too.

I think ray is not sure about this as well , which is no surprise , these are very complex subject and also depend on so many other variable.

He talks about protective properties of palmetic acid and other saturated fats but here:

Just about everything that goes wrong, involves free fatty acids increase. If they're totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose, and turning on various stress-related things (by lowering the carbon dioxide production, I think, is the main mechanism).

In peat experience and also as some studies(around30g a day) showed CO even in unhydrogenated type makes people loss fat.

But maybe losing fat and getting healthier are two different thing.

Just look at that fat free experiment that showed less fatigue and disappeared migrens , or good result that documented with rice diet.

And very good results people get from taking mildronate.

 

[tyler]

Calories are what matters. You can drop your fat to 5 grams per day and still gain weight ( fat ) if your eating too much. Keeping your sugars high to keep thyroid up is very important. I can maintain my weight on 5% calories from fat @ 2800 calories, but if I add 2-3 tbsp of hydrogenated coconut oil my body weight starts going down, seemingly because of the increase in metabolism. Basically the higher the metabolism the more you can eat and either maintain or lose weight ( fat ). Calories are still the end all be all. This has been a passion of mine for over 10 years, and I still find it strange that people think its about macronutrients specifically, not calories. Ya, adjusting the macronutrients can allow for more calories to be eaten, but at some point you can screw up your weight loss with too many calories. Find a diet you enjoy, then experiment with how many calories you need on that specific diet to maintain your weight ( through trial and error ) then either eat a little less than maintenance, or eat at your maintenance and burn extra calories through exercise, preferably walking and strength training. Best of luck!

I agree with this. My experience has been the same. Macros don't matter in terms of losing or gaining weight. But I have found that that macros do have an effect on the water weight I hold (which is part of weight loss, I guess.) When I go too low in fat, my face and eyes get puffy, and I lose definition.

 

[Braveheart]

Calories are what matters. You can drop your fat to 5 grams per day and still gain weight ( fat ) if your eating too much. Keeping your sugars high to keep thyroid up is very important. I can maintain my weight on 5% calories from fat @ 2800 calories, but if I add 2-3 tbsp of hydrogenated coconut oil my body weight starts going down, seemingly because of the increase in metabolism. Basically the higher the metabolism the more you can eat and either maintain or lose weight ( fat ). Calories are still the end all be all. This has been a passion of mine for over 10 years, and I still find it strange that people think its about macronutrients specifically, not calories. Ya, adjusting the macronutrients can allow for more calories to be eaten, but at some point you can screw up your weight loss with too many calories. Find a diet you enjoy, then experiment with how many calories you need on that specific diet to maintain your weight ( through trial and error ) then either eat a little less than maintenance, or eat at your maintenance and burn extra calories through exercise, preferably walking and strength training. Best of luck![/QU

Calories are what matters. You can drop your fat to 5 grams per day and still gain weight ( fat ) if your eating too much. Keeping your sugars high to keep thyroid up is very important. I can maintain my weight on 5% calories from fat @ 2800 calories, but if I add 2-3 tbsp of hydrogenated coconut oil my body weight starts going down, seemingly because of the increase in metabolism. Basically the higher the metabolism the more you can eat and either maintain or lose weight ( fat ). Calories are still the end all be all. This has been a passion of mine for over 10 years, and I still find it strange that people think its about macronutrients specifically, not calories. Ya, adjusting the macronutrients can allow for more calories to be eaten, but at some point you can screw up your weight loss with too many calories. Find a diet you enjoy, then experiment with how many calories you need on that specific diet to maintain your weight ( through trial and error ) then either eat a little less than maintenance, or eat at your maintenance and burn extra calories through exercise, preferably walking and strength training. Best of luck!

Yes, you are absolutely correct....best of luck to you too!

 

[schultz]

I may be wrong with this reasoning, but here I go!

I feel as though the body doesn't convert and store sugar as fat as easily as it stores dietary fat. I am under the impression that de novo lipogenesis (the conversion of carbohydrate to fat) is not a very strong pathway in humans and that it takes quite an excess of carbohydrates before any meaningful amount of fat made. If someone eats a mixed meal of carbohydrates and fat, the body will more likely store the fat from the meal and use the carbohydrate as energy.

If this is true, then one could simply eat very low fat (like under 10g) and high carbohydrate (like 500g) as well as a decent protein. Walking uses fat as fuel so if you had such a diet and also walked like 1 hour a day you would burn something like 400 calories of fat (or 44g of fat) from the walk (if the walking calorie calculator is correct, which it probably isn't) plus whatever else you burn through the day (depending on your calorie intake).

If you're going to try and get into the EFAD range (1g PUFA or lower... or so... depending on how much AA you eat) then you could add HCO to the mix. In the studies I read on essential fatty acid deficiency, the rats given hydrogenated coconut oil lost more weight than the zero fat diet. HCO seems to amplify EFAD, which is not surprising since we know saturated fat displaces PUFA (as Ray has talked about). Animals on an EFAD diet can actually eat more calories than the regular animals yet lose more weight, suggesting that they are burning calories like crazy.

 

[superhuman]

I agree with this. My experience has been the same. Macros don't matter in terms of losing or gaining weight. But I have found that that macros do have an effect on the water weight I hold (which is part of weight loss, I guess.) When I go too low in fat, my face and eyes get puffy, and I lose definition.

Why do you think that happens? does not make sense that to low fat makes you puffy?

 

[tyler]

Why do you think that happens? does not make sense that to low fat makes you puffy?

I'm not sure exactly why it happens. Probably because of how it effects the GI system. Low fat compromises my digestion. And with compromised digestion, there isn't proper assimilation of energy and nutrients. Probably resulting in a stressed system, hence the swelling.
Ray has said that he's seen or done studies where they observed human intenstine, and digestion was most optimal with a mix of macros. This has been very true for me.

 

[superhuman]

@tyler thats very interesting. Are calories also the same? You dont drop total kcals when going higher fat?

What have you found as the threshold? How low % of fat calories or grams of fat a day before puffyness happens?

 

[tyler]

@tyler thats very interesting. Are calories also the same? You dont drop total kcals when going higher fat?

What have you found as the threshold? How low % of fat calories before puffyness happens?

Yeah probably the same amount of calories. Maybe even more with the higher fat. I don't track so I'm not too positive on that.

I'm also not too sure on threshold. Once I raised my fat intake and saw the results, I haven't tried to go back to lower fat. I don't want to derail this thread too much, but if you search my recent posts, I just posted a thread sharing my recent success and I touch on the low fat/higher fat a bit there.

To get back to OP, I would most definitely experiment with addidng coconut oil. I use mct oil in my coffees all day and to put it in the words of member Stryker "that ***t is rocket fuel."

 

[superhuman]

@tyler thanx

@tca300 totally agree. But there will be a bif difference in terms of calories burned vs stored and also effect on calories burned in terms of neat etc based on carb vs fat. But yeah i wonder how much no fat/low fat have vs medium. I know zach and max on this forum did super low fat and could maintain and loose fat on alot more kcals a day, like 1000+ kcals daily

 

[superhuman]

I may be wrong with this reasoning, but here I go!

I feel as though the body doesn't convert and store sugar as fat as easily as it stores dietary fat. I am under the impression that de novo lipogenesis (the conversion of carbohydrate to fat) is not a very strong pathway in humans and that it takes quite an excess of carbohydrates before any meaningful amount of fat made. If someone eats a mixed meal of carbohydrates and fat, the body will more likely store the fat from the meal and use the carbohydrate as energy.

If this is true, then one could simply eat very low fat (like under 10g) and high carbohydrate (like 500g) as well as a decent protein. Walking uses fat as fuel so if you had such a diet and also walked like 1 hour a day you would burn something like 400 calories of fat (or 44g of fat) from the walk (if the walking calorie calculator is correct, which it probably isn't) plus whatever else you burn through the day (depending on your calorie intake).

If you're going to try and get into the EFAD range (1g PUFA or lower... or so... depending on how much AA you eat) then you could add HCO to the mix. In the studies I read on essential fatty acid deficiency, the rats given hydrogenated coconut oil lost more weight than the zero fat diet. HCO seems to amplify EFAD, which is not surprising since we know saturated fat displaces PUFA (as Ray has talked about). Animals on an EFAD diet can actually eat more calories than the regular animals yet lose more weight, suggesting that they are burning calories like crazy.

i agree with you.
It has also been proven in studies that DNL is a very inefficient way to store carb to fat. The only thing or question is if it ramps up after a x amount of time of no/low fat so that the conversion happens easier

 

[tca300]

@superhuman I ate an average of 4500 kcals of rice, potatoes and fruit for a little over a year, extremely strict with no added fat, not once and I gained 44lbs, and lost a lot of lean mass. Sugars are important, perhaps the most important, but too much will turn into fat.

 

[superhuman]

@tca300 Thats cool man. Do you also think that was because of to little protein in terms of loosing lean mass? Or do you think also that fat has a role in all of this ? and if so, what does fat intake contribute to? i mean one should be able to get the fat from converting sugar to the most beneficial saturated fat.

 

[tca300]

@superhuman Acording to the idea of Keto acids in potatoes and fruits, I should have been getting the equivalent of over 150 grams of protein per day, but my legs, back, chest and arms shriveled up and were replaced with fat. ( Not literally replaced, but you get it ) Saturated fats improve digestion, are antibacterial/ antifungal, and greatly help with the absorption of nutrients, especially the fat soluble vitamins. ( Which can highly effects testosterone ) I suspect most of the lean mass loss was due to lack of protein, but I will say whenever I drop my fat below 10% My gains, and libido go bye-bye. I have never heard of a bodybuilder or strength athelete that maintain their physique and built it on a very low fat diet, maybe temporarily low for cutting, but thats it. I think Carbs should ALWAYS have priority over fats, but I see some fat as highly beneficial.