Food Without Enough Salt: Complete Depression, With Salt: Feels Great

malibumaniac

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What does this say about me? If I eat any meat without enough salt, I fall into complete doom and depression. But once I add salt, I get an immediate boost that lasts hours. What does that mean?
Same thing with carbs, without salt, doom, with salt I feel ok but eating carbs causes fatigue and ache so I have to keep them low.
 

somuch4food

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I don't know about any specifics, but I also seem to have a similar relationship with salt.

Even if carbs make you feel tired, I wouldn't limit them. They make you tired because they allow your body to relax and release less stress hormones. Salt is also beneficial to balancing stress hormones. If you need to be able to function, increase carbs gradually to keep an acceptable energy level to get through the day.
 

Dobbler

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Salt lowers serotonin, adrenaline and cortisol powerfully, while boosting thyroid and heat production. Something like 10g of salt is required daily or else stress hormones can go up. I can't go without salt for longer than 2 days. Craving salt can mean that your body is in high stress state and salt helps to calm things down. Especially if you feel really depressed without salt then that's clear implication that your body is under stress. I have same thing, i get really intense salt cravings like "i need to get salt asap" .
 

somuch4food

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Salt lowers serotonin, adrenaline and cortisol powerfully, while boosting thyroid and heat production. Something like 10g of salt is required daily or else stress hormones can go up. I can't go without salt for longer than 2 days. Craving salt can mean that your body is in high stress state and salt helps to calm things down. Especially if you feel really depressed without salt then that's clear implication that your body is under stress. I have same thing, i get really intense salt cravings like "i need to get salt asap" .

You're lucky. I seem to have a broken instinct for salt. I only realize it after I start feeling off.

It also seems that the more sugar I consume the more salt I need.
 

malibumaniac

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Salt lowers serotonin, adrenaline and cortisol powerfully, while boosting thyroid and heat production. Something like 10g of salt is required daily or else stress hormones can go up. I can't go without salt for longer than 2 days. Craving salt can mean that your body is in high stress state and salt helps to calm things down. Especially if you feel really depressed without salt then that's clear implication that your body is under stress. I have same thing, i get really intense salt cravings like "i need to get salt asap" .
Yeah my initial conclusion pointed me to serotonin. What are the side affects of eating so much salt though? One thing I notice is that my beard has been graying fast since upping my salt, I'm early 30s. Anyone to counter that? My research says high sodium could be the reason.
 

Birdie

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I think that Ray recommends thyroid supplements for almost everybody over 30. And here is a little info re salt:

Dr. Ray Peat:
The absorption and retention of magnesium, sodium, and copper, and the synthesis of proteins, are usually poor in hypothyroidism. Salt craving is common in hypothyroidism, and eating additional sodium tends to raise the body temperature, and by decreasing the production of aldosterone, it helps to minimize the loss of magnesium, which in turn allows cells to respond better to the thyroid hormone. This is probably why a low sodium diet increases adrenalin production, and why eating enough sodium lowers adrenalin and improves sleep. The lowered adrenalin is also likely to improve intestinal motility.


An Interview With Dr. Raymond Peat: A Renowned Nutritional Counselor Offers His Thoughts About Thyroid Disease / Thyroid Disease Information Source - Articles/FAQs
 

ScurveDream

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Something like 10g of salt is required daily or else stress hormones can go up. I can't go without salt for longer than 2 days. Craving salt can mean that your body is in high stress state and salt helps to calm things down.

I'm curious what it could mean then if I don't crave salt much, but don't get nearly as much as I could -- maybe 2-3 on average now. Oddly I didn't crave salt that much when I would be super low on intake of it either before (when I was really low calories as well). I mean I would eat it on junking/PUFA before Peat, but now I sometimes do not crave any salts at all even throughout most of the day. Could this be a blunted appetite in general?

I've gone so long on such low calories that maybe I need to re-adjust my baseline more properly because cravings seem to be hit or miss & random for me now.

Maybe it takes a gradual salt re-introduction or such. It obviously does affect stress hormones, but my cravings/etc. are all out of whack. One suggestion would be to only eat heavy/calorie-dense/protein foods with good amounts of sodium, but everything else it wouldn't matter as much, like small meals/juice/milk/etc.
 

Birdie

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I've never craved salt. Of course, I used to try to use as little as possible before Peat.
He often says to salt and sugar his recommended milky coffee. I don't like salt in mine, but can take a pinch before drinking it.

Some of my favorite Peaty advice is to make changes slowly and gradually.
He doesn't make changes without research and thinking each thing over. That sounds like your approach. Should be good.
 

pauljacob

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What about people with high blood pressure who should avoid salt? How much salt can I safely take per day? Currently I take none and I rely on the salt in the bread and vegetables and fruits I eat. I'm a vegetarian.
 
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What about people with high blood pressure who should avoid salt? How much salt can I safely take per day? Currently I take none and I rely on the salt in the bread and vegetables and fruits I eat. I'm a vegetarian.


Hi,a member posted this on Hi-BP:"I am in my sixties and potassium bicarbonate has changed my blood pressure of from
about 135/84 to 120/72."

Furthermore:
Recent work by Titze and colleagues (18, 33) has dem-
onstrated that sodium retention is not always accompanied
by commensurate water retention. Using23NaMRI in hu-
mans and chemical analysis in rodents, they have shown that
the skin and skeletal muscle of hypertensive patients and
animals contain levels of salt far greater than that of plasma.
Moreover, they found that in humans, blood pressure is
positively correlated with both skin and muscle sodium
content (18).

my understanding is that hypertensives are collecting salt in their skin and in their musculature,where it is driving a
inflammation-pathway,high-intensity.3-1g NaCl is possible and the physiologic amount of a non-saltdispenser-diet.
 

lampofred

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Salt lowers aldosterone and aldosterone is highly associated with depression
 

pauljacob

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Mar 9, 2018
Messages
301
Hi,a member posted this on Hi-BP:"I am in my sixties and potassium bicarbonate has changed my blood pressure of from
about 135/84 to 120/72."

Furthermore:
Recent work by Titze and colleagues (18, 33) has dem-
onstrated that sodium retention is not always accompanied
by commensurate water retention. Using23NaMRI in hu-
mans and chemical analysis in rodents, they have shown that
the skin and skeletal muscle of hypertensive patients and
animals contain levels of salt far greater than that of plasma.
Moreover, they found that in humans, blood pressure is
positively correlated with both skin and muscle sodium
content (18).

my understanding is that hypertensives are collecting salt in their skin and in their musculature,where it is driving a
inflammation-pathway,high-intensity.3-1g NaCl is possible and the physiologic amount of a non-saltdispenser-diet.
Thank you Tristan, good leads to research further. Much appreciated.
 

GreekDemiGod

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They make you tired because they allow your body to relax and release less stress hormones.
So how does one get into a high-energy state combined with low stress hormones? What does it take?

Another aspect to mention is that salt on meat increases its palatability, so if you need to eat a lot, it's best to salt your meat.
Got this tip from my Carnivore times.
 

somuch4food

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So how does one get into a high-energy state combined with low stress hormones? What does it take?

My understanding is that you have to first heal, then the body will towards more energetic states.

My personal experience tells me that adequate sleep is the most important aspect of recovery that helps with overall energy levels. Eating helps, but its much more short term than a good night of sleep.

Another thing that greatly helps with energy levels is a sense of purpose which helps increase dopamine from the reward system.

As you can see, lifestyle is also important to reach those higher levels.
 

RWilly

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Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
452
Yeah my initial conclusion pointed me to serotonin. What are the side affects of eating so much salt though? One thing I notice is that my beard has been graying fast since upping my salt, I'm early 30s. Anyone to counter that? My research says high sodium could be the reason.
Graying hair often has to do with copper.

Does sodium impact copper levels?
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2,207
Salt lowers aldosterone and aldosterone is highly associated with depression

good thinking.
i was in the same boat,but look at this:
Wikipedia on aldosterone:"Serum potassium concentrations are the most potent stimulator of aldosterone secretion."
and:Aldosterone synthesis is stimulated by several factors: "plasma acidosis"

high potassium comes from potassium sparing effect of sodium,acidosis from chlorine-excess.a nephrology-review maintains the view that the renal system
is specced for elimination of excess alkalinity,not excess acid.
it actually acid-damages the kidney to up-concentrate acid for excretion.

also:excess acid has to be complexed with substance,it cant be breathed off.

also self-quote from another thread:

"The thing is, that likely above-average healthy would-be-astronauts had all these

immune derangements.
One Study,mouse model,had graft-VS-host self-tolerance
as its topic.

it was vertical axis:bodyweight[100g mouseweight],horizontal axis:[days to decline of

health,0-40days].

mouse with low salt kept on trucking
at 100grams,0-to day40;salt-mouses had BW-reduction at day 20 to only 60grams...

its all about self-tolerance in "autoimmunity",and salt has the honorable
duty to initiate the infection cascade.thats how the body is doing it:it is no

saltpoisoning,it is physiologic.the body iniates and maintains it by virtue of water

control,tonicity.

the authoritarian,towering salt-dispenser is looking
like a hooligan to me. "
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2,207
What does this say about me? If I eat any meat without enough salt, I fall into complete doom and depression. But once I add salt, I get an immediate boost that lasts hours. What does that mean?
Same thing with carbs, without salt, doom, with salt I feel ok but eating carbs causes fatigue and ache so I have to keep them low.


Carbohydrate feeding and weakness and fatigue are signs of vitamin-deficiency,maybe Thiamine?
A lot of Peat-readers think he gives plain sugar a thumbs up,but maybe thats not the case?
Did you feed with white sugar,coke,Junkfood?
 
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