Folate And Other B's

Discussion in 'Vitamins' started by mamaherrera, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. mamaherrera

    mamaherrera Member

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    I am checking up on cronometer daily to make sure I'm getting all my nutrients, since I'm breastfeeding and I want to improve health overall. I notice with Peat, I've back very lacking in iron and folate EVERY DAY. I'm missing something in this diet, or I'm not eating specific foods that you all get to get these two important things in my diet. I know Peat doesn't think iron is important, but I do think you need to get your daily dosage of it all, it's good to have a balance, and not avoid a certain thing in diet, especially knowing I'm breastfeeding and I need more of everything. What foods do you all know of that are rich in folate and iron, maybe not together like that, but you know what I mean. I do liver once a week already, but I mean on the daily mode, how to get more of these two things. Thanks
     
  2. mt_dreams

    mt_dreams Member

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    Things high in folate are orange juice, liver, & beets. Things high in iron are liver, clams (being the best), octopus, oysters, sun dried tomatoes, etc. I believe Peat also recommends nutritional yeast as a way to supercharge your b-vitamins if you are not eating enough liver. There's a reason why pregnant women sometimes get cravings for liver, even if they normally can't stand it. keep in mind if you plan on increasing liver consumption, also add in some oysters to balance out the zinc to copper ratio.
     
  3. OP
    mamaherrera

    mamaherrera Member

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    thanks much for those ideas, I've forgotten beets and clams lately. next on my list!
     
  4. Stilgar

    Stilgar Member

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    I didn't know this! Do you know where he said that? I love the stuff.
     
  5. OP
    mamaherrera

    mamaherrera Member

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    how do you eat yeast, mixed in orange juice??? I don't really like it but I've heard good things about it, it's brewer's yeast, right?
     
  6. HDD

    HDD Member

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    We love it on popcorn and also wondered if it was ok.
     
  7. OP
    mamaherrera

    mamaherrera Member

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    but is nutritional yeast the same as brewer's yeast or is it different?
     
  8. narouz

    narouz Member

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    No, they are different.
    Peat has spoken about them a little bit
    in some interviews--couldn't really tell you which ones, sorry :cry:

    As far as I know
    I wouldn't say that Peat really recommends yeast.
    He does tell an amazing story about his dad,
    who was seriously wasting away with diagnosed diabetes.
    His dad ate only brewers yeast for a prolonged time--
    like 2 weeks or 2 months...can't remember exactly--
    and cured his diabetes.
    Lived many more years without return.

    Nutritional yeast tastes great on foods.
    Brewer's yeast...not so much.
    Isn't brewer's yeast a brewing industry bi--product?

    I believe I've heard Peat say that yeast is often fortified with selenium.
    I think both yeasts are very phosphate heavy.
    I think Peat has talked about the dangers of excito-toxins,
    and I believe there may be excito-toxins in yeast.

    Hard to hate yeast,
    it having saved Ray Peat's dad.
    Wouldn't be on an everyday great Peat diet list.
    But it seems clear that it can, in certain situations,
    be very valuable.
    I would imagine that it could be strongly indicated for vegetarians.

    There should probably be a little niche category within a Peat diet
    for "special foods" or something.
     
  9. pboy

    pboy Member

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    the yeasts have a ton of vitamins (particularly b) and minerals, especially selenium and zinc, but they have a terrible phosphorus to calcium ratio, soluble immune stimulating fiber, and yeast amine by products. So it can be a tool to use if you need on occasion but can throw you out if you eat it too often. I personally don't like it just because of the taste, smell and texture...its like slightly rotten goo. There was a Peat quote where he said that if you do use it, to stir it into the cup, let it sit for a little bit, and then pour off the top thin liquid and leave the yeast at the bottom...which id say is a really good idea, you avoid a lot of the fibers and amines that way
     
  10. tara

    tara Member

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    Brewers yeast has lots of estrogen (bad), but rich in B vitamins (good). As pboy says, mix with [edit:] HOT water, and only drink the liquid - Bs are soluble in water. Hopefully most of the estrogen stays in the solids at the bottom.

    http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2013/0 ... ers-yeast/

    I guess you can counter the excess phosphorous by also supplementing calcium.

    As Mittir has suggested, I've started eating smaller quantities of liver on more days of the week. I like it this way, though more time consuming, and it spreads the goodies through the week.
     
  11. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    I wasn't sure if I was going to post this. If I remember correctly there's a second edition of this book and it no longer has the chapter on zinc and folate interaction. Maybe they found it to be irrelevant enough that they decided to exclude it, don't know. I'm sharing only the introduction and conclusion just so you can grasp if it's something you find worth investigating further:

    Folate in health and disease (classic)
    ESPN: 0-8247-9280-7

    upload_2017-9-8_19-33-9.png
    upload_2017-9-8_19-33-17.png
     
  12. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  13. Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    You can find folate in beans, and I use only red lentils as they have no husk. Also split peas. And still, I wash them well before cooking. The water comes out sooo dirty at the beginning!
    I sprout chickpeas and remove the husk if I want to eat some.
     
  14. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Asparagus and spinach are similar. 1 cup of asparagus yields 67% of RDA for it, and 100% of K1. But Chickpeas and Lentils are richest sources
     
  15. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279402461_Folate_and_Choline_Interrelationships

    "It is likely that the dietary requirement for choline is affected by folate and possibly the intake of other methyl donors. The interrelationship between choline and folate arises from the participation of these nutrients in one-carbon metabolism (Figure 18.2). In liver and kidney tissue, either folate or betaine may serve as methyl donors for the conversion of Hcy [non-burtlancysteine] to methionine. Thus, deficiency of one nutrient may increase the demand for the other. Further, hepatic biosynthesis of phosphatidylcholine through the PEMT pathway is a major consumer of one-carbon units [18,56]. Thus, 5-methyl-THF, as a primary source of methyl groups for PEMT, is integral to de novo biosynthesis of choline. Finally, the catabolism of choline provides one-carbon units that ultimately feed into folate-mediated one-carbon metabolism as formate [57,58]. However, the quantitative signifi cance of the choline oxidation pathway to one-carbon metabolism is uncertain."

    "The choline-sparing effect and the lipotropic properties of folate depend on its possession of biologically labile methyl groups that may be used for the biosynthesis of choline (i.e., phosphatidylcholine) through the PEMT pathway. Evidence of interplay between folate and choline was demonstrated by showing perturbed choline metabolism, as assessed by abnormalities in hepatic betaine concentrations, in rats following the administration of the folate antagonist methotrexate [59]. Subsequent work showed that rats made severely folate deficient had 65% to 80% lower hepatic choline and phosphocholine concentrations than did folate-adequate controls; moderately folate-deficient rats had a 36% (P < .09) reduction in hepatic choline [60]. Investigations with healthy male [61] and female [62–64] study participants have also demonstrated an effect of folate intake on biomarkers of choline status. In premenopausal Mexican American (MA) women consuming a constant intake of choline (i.e., 349 mg/day), plasma phosphatidylcholine decreased in response to folate restriction (i.e., 135 μg of dietary folate equivalents [DFE]/day) and increased in response to folate treatment with 800 μg of DFE/day [62] (Figure 18.3). These findings are consistent with the important role of folate in providing labile methyl groups required for de novo biosynthesis of phosphatidylcholine through the PEMT pathway."

    "The interplay between folate and choline was recognized more than 50 years ago when the choline-sparing effect of folate was noted in animal models of fatty liver."​
     
  16. Travis

    Travis Member

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    I think I remember reading that folate was the one responsible for turning serotonin into melatonin, which is more-or-less just methylated and acetylated serotonin.
     
  17. Lucenzo01

    Lucenzo01 Member

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    B's are complicated and the typical b-50 or b-100 formulations don't make any sense and the labs usually don't use the optimal form of each vitamin. I'm still waiting for a topical B-complex with all the vitamins in decent quantities and form. Meanwhile I'm doing my own with powder but it's a mess every time I do the mix lol.
     
  18. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Do you feel energetic after consuming the B-vitamins? I do realize that they are a common addition to energy drinks, but I don't drink those. I've had a few Red Bulls in my day, but this also has caffeine. I couldn't decide if it was the caffeine, refined sugar, B-vitamins, or some combination of the three.
     
  19. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    L-Methylfolate, Methylfolate, 5-MTHF, L-5-MTHF. Why many variations?

    "Metafolin® (L-methylfolate calcium) is a substantially diastereoisomerically pure source of L-methylfolate containing not more than 1% D-methylfolate which results in not more than 0.03 milligrams of D-methylfolate in Metanx®"

    "Quatrefolic: What is this?
    This is a new form of methylfolate that uses glucosamine instead of calcium to bind the L-methylfolate."

    @Travis
     
  20. Eric Yim

    Eric Yim Member

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    nice bro
     
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