Fluoride to be added to all UK Tap Water

blob69

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Nov 6, 2015
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This is a f** joke.

I know it's all theatre but who would take health advice from Whitty?
Yeah, the guy looks terrible. Most of the corona-clowns look like they could use some health advice from Ray... ;)
 

blob69

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Nov 6, 2015
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I asked my butcher very nicely - they told me their schedule and process, so I go in on the day it comes in from the abbatoir, which is also local.
I see, thanks! Do you manage to get beef that is not kept in a refrigerator for a couple days or so?
 

CreakyJoints

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Mar 30, 2020
Messages
217
I see, thanks! Do you manage to get beef that is not kept in a refrigerator for a couple days or so?

Usually, but it does sometimes depend on how early I get there, if someone's beaten me to it, if their delivery is late, things like that. If you have a good local butcher who specialises in grass-fed beed, they can normally help you out!

We're sliding a little bit off-topic here... does anyone have any experience with collecting and purifying rainwater at all? Could that be a solution for some of the year, at least?
 

Mr.Bollox

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Mar 16, 2021
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Yes, often tap water is just used to make up the rest of the bottle/carton/whatever. If a very good source can be found there is no reason to avoid it, but I have yet to find one myself. I prefer making my own.

I suppose yes, in the worst case I might be able to supplement it; but like I said a moment ago, it's a dietary staple for me - I rely on it for protein, calories, a favorable ratio of amino acids and trace minerals relative to tryptophan, and so forth. I assume some sources of powdered gelatin might be a reasonable substitute if all else fails but I don't very much like the idea of having a few spoonfuls of powder instead of a meal every day. I have heard, however, that Great Lakes gelatin's manufacture process is very different in the EU/UK than it is in the US, and perhaps even the process in the US has been compromised - do you know much about it? Have you seen any recent COAs or things like that? I'd be interested in case I do ever end up purchasing large amounts of it - at that point I suppose I'll do my own research, but since you are recommending it now could you share what you already know?

Surely ground up bones would be problematic if only on the grounds of your previous issue with bone broth in general? I probably wouldn't ever bother with these, although I appreciate the recommendation.
where did you find that out regarding tap water? are you in the US? i ahvent heard of that.. i thought not from concentrate means it all has to come from squeezing the orange itself

isnt bone broth very very low in calories and protein? its kind of a mineral supplement, maybe a few grams fat and protein?
i havent looked into it. i read posts on here mentioning issues with great lakes, maybe that it had glyphosate residue or something, but it seems peat uses it still sometimes, I think he prefers non hydrolyzed version? its a popular brand and seems the best quality.

it depends on the context, like Ray said bovine blood is fine on the maasai diet of iron deficient milk but most people get too much iron. his comment on bones was something like that tests for bones have shown high lead content, so bones are risky. getting the bone product from ancestral supplements would probably be a lot safer than bones of american cows. he said pink salt is pink due to iron oxide in it. same thing there, if your diet is low iron you could tolerate and use those things. he said he tries keeping iron intake at a maximum of 5 to 6mg a day!

im currently looking into some skim milk powders

Orange juice/coffee are good chelators according to Dr Peat. He mentions coffee again in the context of covid in the recent interview. Without coffee there is no hope!

chelators of what, heavy metals? is it the citric acid in Oj helping chelation
 

Sefton10

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1,035
I am not even going to bother with trying to filter tap water. It's going to be impossible for most house holds. I think I am now coming round to the idea that prayer might be my only option. Sorry I am feeling the squeeze today.
It does feel like that sometimes, Pina. Just got to try and control what we can within our means. I think trying to mitigate against every single assault in our environments likely ends up having a worse impact as it becomes a major stressor in and of itself. There’s still a lot of good and positivity in the world, don’t let them drag you down to their level.

I’m not into religion at all, but came across this from the bible yesterday and it resonated with me.

“Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?” Matthew 6:27

Translated as:

“Which of you, by being anxious, can add one moment to his lifespan?”
 

Pina

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It does feel like that sometimes, Pina. Just got to try and control what we can within our means. I think trying to mitigate against every single assault in our environments likely ends up having a worse impact as it becomes a major stressor in and of itself. There’s still a lot of good and positivity in the world, don’t let them drag you down to their level.

I’m not into religion at all, but came across this from the bible yesterday and it resonated with me.

“Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?” Matthew 6:27

Translated as:

“Which of you, by being anxious, can add one moment to his lifespan?”
Thank you @Sefton10 . These words are indeed hopeful. I've learnt to allow myself to feel my emotions. I give them space and I'm learning to also let go of them when appropriate. It's comforting to know that there as so many people on the forum holding the space for each other.
 

Blossom

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I’m in the US and used this filter when I lived in the city and had fluoridated water. I’m not sure if it’s available in the UK.
 

BodhiBlues

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Jun 22, 2021
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I am not even going to bother with trying to filter tap water. It's going to be impossible for most house holds. I think I am now coming round to the idea that prayer might be my only option. Sorry I am feeling the squeeze today.
Same, I live in a rented flat so installing some kind of reverse-osmosis system or whatever people are using these days to filter out fluoride isn't really an option for me. Luckily I normally only drink 1 - 2 glasses of water a day when I'm at home as I get most of my fluids from 2L of milk and 1L OJ a day. Though I also use tap water for my coffee.
 

CreakyJoints

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Mar 30, 2020
Messages
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where did you find that out regarding tap water? are you in the US? i ahvent heard of that.. i thought not from concentrate means it all has to come from squeezing the orange itself

isnt bone broth very very low in calories and protein? its kind of a mineral supplement, maybe a few grams fat and protein?
i havent looked into it. i read posts on here mentioning issues with great lakes, maybe that it had glyphosate residue or something, but it seems peat uses it still sometimes, I think he prefers non hydrolyzed version? its a popular brand and seems the best quality.

it depends on the context, like Ray said bovine blood is fine on the maasai diet of iron deficient milk but most people get too much iron. his comment on bones was something like that tests for bones have shown high lead content, so bones are risky. getting the bone product from ancestral supplements would probably be a lot safer than bones of american cows. he said pink salt is pink due to iron oxide in it. same thing there, if your diet is low iron you could tolerate and use those things. he said he tries keeping iron intake at a maximum of 5 to 6mg a day!

im currently looking into some skim milk powders



chelators of what, heavy metals? is it the citric acid in Oj helping chelation
I'm afraid all of this side-discussion is beginning to derail the thread, but to answer your questions...

I'm in the UK, which is mainly why I'm in this thread at all. Yes, producers will often dilute what they put on the shelves, but like I said there is every possibility you've found a good source. Another concern is when juice is sold without pulp, often industrial chemicals are added to dissolve the pulp rather than it being strained. If it's not a concern for you, then that's great. Like I said, I press my own.

Again, I eat the meat as well, and it is a dietary staple for me. I can't rephrase it any other way! I rely on my oxtail soup! I'm sorry if that is difficult to understand or relate to. Yes, if Ray Peat still uses Great Lakes Gelatin I believe it wouldn't be the same one we get as readily here - if the manufacture process is still as desirable as it was previously it might be advisable to import from the US rather than purchase from an EU or UK retailed.

Well, this is precisely the issue we've been discussing with bones. In oxtail soup/bone broth, one does not eat the bones - the oxtail joint is chosen because the tail moves a lot in many directions and gelatin builds up there, other joints are somewhat inferior in terms of gelatin content. If one is just eating bones, or supplementing the bones only, they are having the exact issue you're trying to avoid in terms of heavy metals and toxins being built up there. It's illogical to be worried about one and recommend the other. Again, I discard the bones. It does stand to reason that the supplement you mentioned would be safer than eating powdered American cow bones but I don't know why you'd do either of these things.

Let us know what you find in terms of skim milk powders! I've struggled to find good ones in the UK - although if the problem is with tap water, and you're already saying earlier in the thread we should concede and never use tap water again, what would you be using for them?

I hope some of that makes my position clearer, and I'm sorry again to the OP and everyone else for cluttering the thread somewhat!

I’m in the US and used this filter when I lived in the city and had fluoridated water. I’m not sure if it’s available in the UK.

Thank you Blossom! Yes, I think lots of commercially available water filters would potentially be able to help with fluoride. Currently I'm more concerned about Pina's post here suggesting graphene oxide filters will come into use. If they are totally perfect, entirely solid, and never break or chip away, we're probably fine, but in the instance small particles are freed from the filter and enter the supply things might not be as fine. I think graphene filters in and of themselves are probably not a concern, but if they begin to break/leach/whatever you want to call it, we should look into any possible methods of filtering these too - which I suspect are limited if they exist at all.

There's a lot going on in our water

 

Alomongerpete

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13
Same, I live in a rented flat so installing some kind of reverse-osmosis system or whatever people are using these days to filter out fluoride isn't really an option for me. Luckily I normally only drink 1 - 2 glasses of water a day when I'm at home as I get most of my fluids from 2L of milk and 1L OJ a day. Though I also use tap water for my coffee.
I have a plug in countertop RO unit that's served me very well for the couple of years that I've had it; Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis System
 

Mr.Bollox

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Mar 16, 2021
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Brita filters are not enough for the fluoride?
they dont do anything for it, the brita filter even has a pamphlet about how its designed by medical doctors or something and how it removes cadmium, copper, chlorine zinc but leaves a "healthy level of fluoride" in the water because its good for you and your teeth

maybe they reduce its amount? seemed like it does nothing to it

I'm afraid all of this side-discussion is beginning to derail the thread, but to answer your questions...

I'm in the UK, which is mainly why I'm in this thread at all. Yes, producers will often dilute what they put on the shelves, but like I said there is every possibility you've found a good source. Another concern is when juice is sold without pulp, often industrial chemicals are added to dissolve the pulp rather than it being strained. If it's not a concern for you, then that's great. Like I said, I press my own.

Again, I eat the meat as well, and it is a dietary staple for me. I can't rephrase it any other way! I rely on my oxtail soup! I'm sorry if that is difficult to understand or relate to. Yes, if Ray Peat still uses Great Lakes Gelatin I believe it wouldn't be the same one we get as readily here - if the manufacture process is still as desirable as it was previously it might be advisable to import from the US rather than purchase from an EU or UK retailed.

Well, this is precisely the issue we've been discussing with bones. In oxtail soup/bone broth, one does not eat the bones - the oxtail joint is chosen because the tail moves a lot in many directions and gelatin builds up there, other joints are somewhat inferior in terms of gelatin content. If one is just eating bones, or supplementing the bones only, they are having the exact issue you're trying to avoid in terms of heavy metals and toxins being built up there. It's illogical to be worried about one and recommend the other. Again, I discard the bones. It does stand to reason that the supplement you mentioned would be safer than eating powdered American cow bones but I don't know why you'd do either of these things.

Let us know what you find in terms of skim milk powders! I've struggled to find good ones in the UK - although if the problem is with tap water, and you're already saying earlier in the thread we should concede and never use tap water again, what would you be using for them?

I hope some of that makes my position clearer, and I'm sorry again to the OP and everyone else for cluttering the thread somewhat!



Thank you Blossom! Yes, I think lots of commercially available water filters would potentially be able to help with fluoride. Currently I'm more concerned about Pina's post here suggesting graphene oxide filters will come into use. If they are totally perfect, entirely solid, and never break or chip away, we're probably fine, but in the instance small particles are freed from the filter and enter the supply things might not be as fine. I think graphene filters in and of themselves are probably not a concern, but if they begin to break/leach/whatever you want to call it, we should look into any possible methods of filtering these too - which I suspect are limited if they exist at all.

i thought its the pulp juices that are the problem, didnt know pulp free are a problem,t heres quotes from Ray encouraging pulp free juices
as far as I know in the US they arent allowed to add any water to juices that are not from concentrate... but of course shady companies could always be doing things secretly
i wonder if there are certain juices or milks that can be used for things like oxtail soup... maybe like, it can be cooked in the animal blood itself or something? but just dont eat the blood itself, but use it for cooking?
yeah regarding bones and heavy metals, its not a guaranteed thing, its basically depends heavily on the quality of the cow... i think bones could be useful for trace minerals and their calcium phosphate ratio is really good, 2:1

I would be using whey protein powder, or skim milk powder, mixed into juices like orange juice or pomegranate juice or other juices. ive already tried whey out with orange juice and it tastes good to me. if you like the creamsicle ice cream bars youll like orange juice mixed with whey or skim milk powder. mixing it with orange juice also helps to negate the acidity and teeth irritating effect of orange juice.
ive tried whey with pineapple juice and grape juice as well, all taste great to me.
although, orange juice, pineapple juice and grape juice, especially when organic, are pretty sweet juices. pomegranate juice is pretty tart, so i dont know how thatll taste with whey or milk powder, but i dont think it would be a bad taste.

in costco here they do have bottled water, which is reverse osmosis filtered and ozone purified, so it has no fluoride. it also probably doesnt have other minerals either. and it does have small amounts of things like sodium/potassium bicarbonate, calcium citrate and i think magnesium sulfate added or another magnesium form maybe oxide. and it comes in a plastic bottle, but its still probably far superior to tap water, since its fluoride is probably at 0. for a while I did sometimes mix whey with that costco bottled water and hersheys "simply" chocolate syrup, which actually has nothing besides cocoa powder, water, and sugar and vanilla extract in the ingredients. no gums or other junk ingredients. that water would probably be a good replacement if you really need to cook the animal meats and coffee.

the Azure brand skim milk powder seems excellent. im just trying to get confirmation of whether i has any added vitamins A and D since those are problematic due to fillers. i luckily found it on amazon. its A2A2 milk, skim milk, 100% grass fed, organic... i made a thread about this but was wondering how skim milk powder compares to whey protein powder. Skim milk powder, I think isnt required to have added vitamins. if thats the case, it may be far superior to whey, since Peat doesnt seem to like whey compared to regular or skim milk, and whey seems to involve extra processing, they have to add some enzymes into the milk to separate the whey from the fat and the casein (cheese making process). normally, whey powders dont list enzymes in the ingredients whereas cheese products do list enzymes, but I wonder since enzymes are used for the separation of whey from casein/fat, maybe some enzymes do remain in the whey. because that would explain why so many people seemingly have trouble with whey protein powders, even powders that are unflavored and dont have junk added like soy/sunflower lecithin or sucralose or sweeteners.

these enzymes for the cheesemaking process are very problematic, companies nowadays usually use vegetable enzymes/rennet and microbial enzymes which Ray has said are more inflammatory/allergenic than citric acid. companies use these enzymes due to cost and because the cheese can meet vegetarian standards since it doesnt use animal rennet. but they have side effects, and would explain the bloating and other effects people can get with whey even when they can apparently tolerate milk, ice cream, cheese and other dairy.

I have a plug in countertop RO unit that's served me very well for the couple of years that I've had it; Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis System

I heard reverse osmosis removes 80% of the fluoride and to remove the rest you need to use other methods like ozone treatment, maybe ultraviolet treatment
 
Last edited:

FitnessMike

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Jan 18, 2020
Messages
599
they dont do anything for it, the brita filter even has a pamphlet about how its designed by medical doctors or something and how it removes cadmium, copper, chlorine zinc but leaves a "healthy level of fluoride" in the water because its good for you and your teeth

maybe they reduce its amount? seemed like it does nothing to it



i thought its the pulp juices that are the problem, didnt know pulp free are a problem,t heres quotes from Ray encouraging pulp free juices
as far as I know in the US they arent allowed to add any water to juices that are not from concentrate... but of course shady companies could always be doing things secretly
i wonder if there are certain juices or milks that can be used for things like oxtail soup... maybe like, it can be cooked in the animal blood itself or something? but just dont eat the blood itself, but use it for cooking?
yeah regarding bones and heavy metals, its not a guaranteed thing, its basically depends heavily on the quality of the cow... i think bones could be useful for trace minerals and their calcium phosphate ratio is really good, 2:1

I would be using whey protein powder, or skim milk powder, mixed into juices like orange juice or pomegranate juice or other juices. ive already tried whey out with orange juice and it tastes good to me. if you like the creamsicle ice cream bars youll like orange juice mixed with whey or skim milk powder. mixing it with orange juice also helps to negate the acidity and teeth irritating effect of orange juice.
ive tried whey with pineapple juice and grape juice as well, all taste great to me.
although, orange juice, pineapple juice and grape juice, especially when organic, are pretty sweet juices. pomegranate juice is pretty tart, so i dont know how thatll taste with whey or milk powder, but i dont think it would be a bad taste.

in costco here they do have bottled water, which is reverse osmosis filtered and ozone purified, so it has no fluoride. it also probably doesnt have other minerals either. and it does have small amounts of things like sodium/potassium bicarbonate, calcium citrate and i think magnesium sulfate added or another magnesium form maybe oxide. and it comes in a plastic bottle, but its still probably far superior to tap water, since its fluoride is probably at 0. for a while I did sometimes mix whey with that costco bottled water and hersheys "simply" chocolate syrup, which actually has nothing besides cocoa powder, water, and sugar and vanilla extract in the ingredients. no gums or other junk ingredients. that water would probably be a good replacement if you really need to cook the animal meats and coffee.

the Azure brand skim milk powder seems excellent. im just trying to get confirmation of whether i has any added vitamins A and D since those are problematic due to fillers. i luckily found it on amazon. its A2A2 milk, skim milk, 100% grass fed, organic... i made a thread about this but was wondering how skim milk powder compares to whey protein powder. Skim milk powder, I think isnt required to have added vitamins. if thats the case, it may be far superior to whey, since Peat doesnt seem to like whey compared to regular or skim milk, and whey seems to involve extra processing, they have to add some enzymes into the milk to separate the whey from the fat and the casein (cheese making process). normally, whey powders dont list enzymes in the ingredients whereas cheese products do list enzymes, but I wonder since enzymes are used for the separation of whey from casein/fat, maybe some enzymes do remain in the whey. because that would explain why so many people seemingly have trouble with whey protein powders, even powders that are unflavored and dont have junk added like soy/sunflower lecithin or sucralose or sweeteners.

these enzymes for the cheesemaking process are very problematic, companies nowadays usually use vegetable enzymes/rennet and microbial enzymes which Ray has said are more inflammatory/allergenic than citric acid. companies use these enzymes due to cost and because the cheese can meet vegetarian standards since it doesnt use animal rennet. but they have side effects, and would explain the bloating and other effects people can get with whey even when they can apparently tolerate milk, ice cream, cheese and other dairy.



I heard reverse osmosis removes 80% of the fluoride and to remove the rest you need to use other methods like ozone treatment, maybe ultraviolet treatment
So how do you drink you water?
 

CreakyJoints

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Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
217
do these juices not from concentrate have not added tap water in them?

I was trying to get this across earlier. I think some probably do. It's possible @Mr.Bollox has found some really good brands that he's confident in, though!

i thought its the pulp juices that are the problem, didnt know pulp free are a problem,t heres quotes from Ray encouraging pulp free juices
as far as I know in the US they arent allowed to add any water to juices that are not from concentrate... but of course shady companies could always be doing things secretly
i wonder if there are certain juices or milks that can be used for things like oxtail soup... maybe like, it can be cooked in the animal blood itself or something? but just dont eat the blood itself, but use it for cooking?
yeah regarding bones and heavy metals, its not a guaranteed thing, its basically depends heavily on the quality of the cow... i think bones could be useful for trace minerals and their calcium phosphate ratio is really good, 2:1

I don't really trust UK producers very much, to be honest with you, but it sounds like you do and you've found some you're very willing to stick up for, I'm happy for you! It must be a bit cheaper and easier than pressing your own! Could you show us that Ray Peat quotation in context, by any chance? I don't think I've ever seen him use "..." in that way and I'm curious what his thoughts are. Yes, pulp can often be just refuse re-added, but pulp-free can also have issues. I believe Ray also has issues with excess dietary fiber so would prefer it strained anyway?

Also, I wonder this too, perhaps coconut water would be OK but taste very odd, I'm not sure how it would interact with the gelatin - it will take some experimenting. Have you ever made your own oxtail soup/bone broth before? I'm sorry if I've been totally unable to get the concept across; in most cases the water you make it in becomes the final product, it's not a case of just eating the meat afterwards. I was trying to convey to you how some people discard the meat, but I don't, I eat *both* the broth *and* the meat, but store them separately. It almost a jelly when you do it correctly and it's kept cold, you end up with a lot of the good stuff in the actual water. In my case, I will make enough of this broth to last for a little over a week at a time and have it every day (I did say it was a staple...!). I can't imagine this working with blood, and furthermore I think drinking that much animal blood would be both expensive and a good way to get too much iron in your system. I'm glad to hear you like powdered bones so much, perhaps I'll look into them if I need a good source of calcium or something.

Again, I'm in the UK - thanks for the Costco recommendation. Could I ask again why you don't think bathing in contaminated water is a problem? You said at the start of the thread that you didn't think anything would be absorbed, which would surprise me, but maybe I missed something?

Please keep us updated on the Azure brand!
 
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