Flowers Of Sulfur Aka Brimstone Logs

John Eels

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Does it bleed after removing? Is it mostly on the sides? That's thrush.

Bacterial overgrowth looks different, it's more hairy and food material easily gets trapped and colors the tongue accordingly. Milk leaves a whitish layer, coffee more yellowish and so on.

You say it can be removed. That's bacteria. Does it help to swish your tongue with a bicarbonate solution? If so, that's additional evidence of your tongue's coating to be bacterial in origin.

Ray Peat said:
Local bacteria are usually involved in the white tongue, but typically the problem is mainly in the intestine. I have experimented with the old-fashioned "intestinal disinfectant" camphoric acid (it used to be a common pharmaceutical, 80 to 100 years ago), and when I would swallow about 100 to 200 mg of it in the evening, I would wake up with a perfectly clean tongue, not a bit of the white. Bamboo shoots, raw carrot, and flowers of sulfur are other antiseptics that can reduce the white tongue.
Ray Peat said:
They aren't necessary [FIBER], for example milk supports abundant bacterial growth that creates bulk, but when there are digestive and hormonal problems because of bad intestinal flora, the fibers of carrot and bamboo shoots have a disinfecting action. The carrots must be raw for that effect.
 

Yves

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I've always had a dirty tongue, I also believe it's related to bowel health. Either by trans-location of bacteria, or by oral bacteria feeding on H2 from intestinal fermentation, or some other mechanism. It can be a vicious cycle since oral bacteria can colonize or re-colonize the intestines (or stomach in the case of h. pylori which does form oral biofilms). I've had success with frequent cleaning of my teeth with mouthwashes.. I use biotene's anti-biofilm mouthwash and then follow it with an antiseptic mouthwash (I prefer the 'natural' ones) and brushing teeth and tongue. Swishing oil can also solublize the bacteria in your mouth, spit out the oil after 5 minutes of gentle swishing. Red wine also seems to be good for killing oral bacteria/yeast, but they will come back in a day or two. I definitely notice when I have a dirty mouth I tend to have poor digestion, and when I have poor digestion I tend to get a dirty mouth. Killing mirco-organisms in the mouth with diligent cleaning may be a way to short circuit the cycle.
 

John Eels

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Interesting thoughts, Yves. I never thought of the mouth as a source of bacteria that would colonize the intestine (I mostly thought of it the other way round. Intestine > stomach > mouth. Ergo, get rid of the intestinal bacteria and all is fine. That's been my reasoning).

Where do you get your anti-biofilm mouthwash and your antiseptic mouthwash from? I would like to experiment with your protocol.
 

Yves

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You can get the Biotene anti-biofilm (green bottle) at any walgreens. Probably online too - http://www.biotene.com/dry-mouth-products/mouthwash

The antiseptic mouthwash I use is just some peppermint tom's of Maine mouthwash without alcohol. I just don'l like the feeling of the alcohol mouthwashes, but they probably are fine. Diluted hydrogen peroxide would also probably work as an antiseptic.

I wouldn't ignore the intestines, but rather to approach it from both ends so to speak :P
 

John Eels

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Absolutely. Have you had success with an approach that targeted the intestine? A week ago I ended a two week course of the antibiotic Rifaximin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifaximin). It's difficult to tell whether or not it helped. I wish the effects were more pronounced. I do the carrot daily. I haven't tried charcoal, sulfur, and bamboo shoots.

Thanks for pointing me those products.
 

John Eels

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At eight o'clock pm I had some Sulfur. I dissolved 1/8 of a teaspoon in approximately one centiliter water and added a teaspoon of grape sugar. I held the solution five minutes in my mouth and then swallowed it. I haven't experienced anything unusual.
 

kettlebell

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I was taking a fair dose each day for three days and didn't really have any nasty effects. For me sulphur seemed pretty safe.
 

John Eels

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So you could take it four, five, six etc. days in row? Why does Peat advice to only take it three days in a row if it's a pinch and if it's a teaspoon full only once a year?
 

charlie

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kettlebell said:
I was taking a fair dose each day for three days and didn't really have any nasty effects. For me sulphur seemed pretty safe.

Well, I wouldnt call it extremely safe. It CAN mess things up, so I wouldn't overdo it.

John Eels said:
So you could take it four, five, six etc. days in row? Why does Peat advice to only take it three days in a row if it's a pinch and if it's a teaspoon full only once a year?

Because it CAN mess you up pretty badly so I would play it on the safe side and no more then 3 days. I did go an extra day but as you are aware, I tend to overdo things at times.
 

Ray-Z

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I followed an erratic sulfur dosing schedule: 1/3 tsp on the first day, none for a couple of days, then 2/3 tsp, then a bit over 1/3 tsp. I used the Humco FOS from Amazon.

No obvious results besides a little bit of stomach gurgling. But I derived enormous satisfaction from the idea of sticking it to my parasites! :mrgreen:

I found the taste pleasant -- rather like egg yolks.
 

John Eels

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It's funny how I look at things. If there is no obvious effect I consider it harmless and useless. I am tempted to overdo it with the Sulfur, too, Charlie. I am still trying to get SIBO under control. If there are any ideas, you are very welcome.

(I know of the carrot, I know of activated charcoal, sulfur, antibiotics. Is there anything else? Maybe shining a lot of red light on my belly? That would be a very unusual treatment)
 

narouz

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John Eels said:
Does it bleed after removing? Is it mostly on the sides? That's thrush.

Bacterial overgrowth looks different, it's more hairy and food material easily gets trapped and colors the tongue accordingly. Milk leaves a whitish layer, coffee more yellowish and so on.

You say it can be removed. That's bacteria. Does it help to swish your tongue with a bicarbonate solution? If so, that's additional evidence of your tongue's coating to be bacterial in origin.

Local bacteria are usually involved in the white tongue, but typically the problem is mainly in the intestine. I have experimented with the old-fashioned "intestinal disinfectant" camphoric acid (it used to be a common pharmaceutical, 80 to 100 years ago), and when I would swallow about 100 to 200 mg of it in the evening, I would wake up with a perfectly clean tongue, not a bit of the white. Bamboo shoots, raw carrot, and flowers of sulfur are other antiseptics that can reduce the white tongue.
They aren't necessary [FIBER], for example milk supports abundant bacterial growth that creates bulk, but when there are digestive and hormonal problems because of bad intestinal flora, the fibers of carrot and bamboo shoots have a disinfecting action. The carrots must be raw for that effect.

Thanks, Mr. Eels (had to write that!).
I kinduv read past it first-go-round because I didn't realize that they were Peat quotes.

The camphoric acid thing from Peat is interesting:

"I have experimented with the old-f...fectly clean tongue, not a bit of the white."

From Wiki:

Pharmaceutical uses

This acid has a mild camphor action; it is not very toxic and can be used in very large doses, up to 4 grams (60 grains), without serious effects; it is supposed to paralyse the nerve-endings in the sweat glands, and is used in the night-sweats of tuberculosis.[citation needed] It does not affect other secretions as does atropine, nor irritate the stomach like agaric acid. Camphoric acid is also employed in solution, 0.2 to 5.0 percent by weight or volume, with sufficient alcohol, as a local antiseptic to the nose, throat and bladder, among other uses, is usually administered as a powder, or in cachets, but may also be given in mixtures suspended with compound powder of tragacanth, or dissolved by the addition of diluted alcohol or a flavouring tincture. When used as an antihydrotic the dose should be given two or three hours before bedtime.

John, your descriptions and diagnoses above,
of different tongues coatings--does that come from research
or personal experience?

Charlie: If John is right, then it would seem that I have a bacterial overgrowth rather than thrush.
(I guess the distinction is that thrush is fungal? the candida fungus?)

So Charlie...we might try some camphoric acid.

It is interesting, also, that Peat says that, with "white tongue,"
"local bacteria" are "usually involved."
 

kiran

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Ya, I think I got a few gray hairs from my flowers of sulfur experiment. I have to be more careful about what I experiment with.
 

John Eels

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@narouz

Sure, my name is inspired by this.

I kinduv read past it first-go-round because I didn't realize that they were Peat quotes.
Yes, the quotes are by RP. I forgot to mention. I'll remember next time so there won't be any confusion about the author.

John, your descriptions and diagnoses above,
of different tongues coatings--does that come from research
or personal experience?
Yes, research (here's the post with some links to phographs and an article by WebMD) and experience (for instance, if I cleaned my mouth with baking soda I'd get a clean tongue, I can scrape it and remove some of the stuff trapped in the tiny tentacles).

(I guess the distinction is that thrush is fungal? the candida fungus?)
Exactly as you say. Candida is a fungus.

It is interesting, also, that Peat says that, with "white tongue,"
"local bacteria" are "usually involved."
I think the "local bacteria" part is relevant considering Yves' experience:
I've always had a dirty tongue, I also believe it's related to bowel health. Either by trans-location of bacteria, or by oral bacteria feeding on H2 from intestinal fermentation, or some other mechanism. It can be a vicious cycle since oral bacteria can colonize or re-colonize the intestines (or stomach in the case of h. pylori which does form oral biofilms). I've had success with frequent cleaning of my teeth with mouthwashes.. I use biotene's anti-biofilm mouthwash and then follow it with an antiseptic mouthwash (I prefer the 'natural' ones) and brushing teeth and tongue. Swishing oil can also solublize the bacteria in your mouth, spit out the oil after 5 minutes of gentle swishing. Red wine also seems to be good for killing oral bacteria/yeast, but they will come back in a day or two. I definitely notice when I have a dirty mouth I tend to have poor digestion, and when I have poor digestion I tend to get a dirty mouth. Killing mirco-organisms in the mouth with diligent cleaning may be a way to short circuit the cycle.
I am in for the camphoric acid experiment. Only question: where do you get such an outdated substance?
 

John Eels

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Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
151
Ya, I think I got a few gray hairs from my flowers of sulfur experiment. I have to be more careful about what I experiment with.
Maybe it's related to digestive disruption which triggers a Serotonin response... My experience is this: I have digestive issues and recently my hair has greyed significantly so that people comment on it; and it's not that they haven't seen me for months. It's rather weeks that lay in between. The rate at which my hair has greyed increased which is in accordance with the severity of my digestive issues.

It's fascinating how brain and gut and all connect. It's all connected (that sounds so new agey :lol: )
 

charlie

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John Eels said:
Yes, the quotes are by RP. I forgot to mention. I'll remember next time so there won't be any confusion about the author.

I am going to adjust those quotes to give citation to Ray Peat.
 
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