Finasteride Nocebo Effect

[Maui96]

Is it possible for people to nocebo themselves into thinking they don't have side effects from the drug. I mean if you were told only 2% got side effects, is it possible that someone wouldn't notice they have side effects because they are biased into thinking that they probably aren't in the minority and rationalize what is happening to them (low libido, erectile dysfunction, anxiety, depression...) to other mundane lifestyle choices or life events? I've seen a lot of people on the internet believing strongly in the nocebo effect and calling others fear mongers and that it's all in their heads. I mean yes the nocebo effect is very real, but could someone really be able to rationalize themselves into thinking that the side effects they are experiencing is a figment of their imagination. Is this possible??

 

[Kenny]

IMO being more aware of side effects can worsen the perceived effect by a ton, butt seems so unlikely that people can dream up condition. Though this is a special case as anxiety can really mess with sex drive and erectile function.

 

[Vegancrossfit]

Yes it’s been studied. Groups that get educated on side effects get WAY more sides that groups who don’t get the info. Ignorance tends to, in fact, be bliss sometimes. Most times.

Nocebo effects, which have been encountered in both clinical and research settings, occur when negative effects arise out of a patient's or participant's negative expectations.[4] A study involving the use of finasteride in patients with benign prostatic hypertrophy revealed a 3-fold increase in the incidence of erectile dysfunction (ED) when this potential side effect was disclosed to the patient.[5] In a similar study involving the use of beta-blocker (atenolol), only 3.1% of men reported (ED) when they were not told the name of the medication, 15.6% when they were told the drug name but not the potential risk of ED, while the incidence was 31.2% when they were told both the drug name and the potential risk of ED.[6] Furthermore, Schweiger and Parducci reported that more than two-thirds of a sample including 34 college students reported mild headaches when they were told that a (nonexistent) electric current was passing through their skulls.[7]

Minimizing nocebo effect: Pragmatic approach

The way I see it, if you start taking a drug even if you’re convincing yourself that everything is going to be fine and studies show low sides and what have you.... if you have the slightest ounce of doubt you’ll be far more likely get sides

 

[Maui96]

What I mean is that when I started taking it I didn't do any research on it in fear of poisoning my mind(praising Kevin Mann) (and firmly accepted the fact that only 2% get sides and it probably won't happen to me). Then 3 years later I had to stop for a month to get a new script only to realise how much the drug had affected my life up to that point. I found it strange how I had seemingly accepted my life as being normal and thinking I was not experiencing any sides what so ever but I actually had accepted them and had gotten used to them over time. I understand that people can experience side effects as nocebo (when they read all the horror stories) and can become more aware of then, but can the other way around also be true? Let say for example a drug gives 100% side effects to everyone that takes it. One group is being told they have a high chance of getting side effects and an other group is being told they have very low chance of getting side effects, is the (low chance of getting side effects group) still going to think they don't have sides even when they are there from the beginning? How powerful can the human mind really be?

 

[Kenny]

What I mean is that when I started taking it I didn't do any research on it in fear of poisoning my mind(praising Kevin Mann) (and firmly accepted the fact that only 2% get sides and it probably won't happen to me). Then 3 years later I had to stop for a month to get a new script only to realise how much the drug had affected my life up to that point. I found it strange how I had seemingly accepted my life as being normal and thinking I was not experiencing any sides what so ever but I actually had accepted them and had gotten used to them over time. I understand that people can experience side effects as nocebo (when they read all the horror stories) and can become more aware of then, but can the other way around also be true? Let say for example a drug gives 100% side effects to everyone that takes it. One group is being told they have a high chance of getting side effects and an other group is being told they have very low chance of getting side effects, is the (low chance of getting side effects group) still going to think they don't have sides even when they are there from the beginning? How powerful can the human mind really be?

Oh wow that's very fascinating. It shows how little we seem to know about the way the brain works.

So after taking it for so long do you regret it? Will you continue? Personally I have been battling over whether I should be taking it - though I may have put myself at risk of serious nocebo for reading about the risks for so long.

 

[Maui96]

Oh wow that's very fascinating. It shows how little we seem to know about the way the brain works.

So after taking it for so long do you regret it? Will you continue? Personally I have been battling over whether I should be taking it - though I may have put myself at risk of serious nocebo for reading about the risks for so long.

Its weird because since then, when I got my script renewed, I've been experimenting with it on and off(lower doses/ taking it 3 times a week...etc) and I could definitively see the difference when on and off finasteride. Tbh I kind of regret using it, for someone in his early 20s I missed out on opportunities with women because I just didn't feel like I was interested in them as much as I should have(or maybe it was all my head idk...). But I have decided to stop using it cold turkey for almost 2 years now and while I don't have PFS I'm still struggling with fertility issues which may or may not be related to finasteride.

 

[Maui96]

This subject sparked my interest after hearing on a baldcafe podcast that apparently there is an ongoing study linking sexual dysfunction and fertility issues in 90% of finasteride users. If interested watch @ 4:45

 

[DhtAssassin]

From the official studies, percentage of side effects in placebo group was almost equal to percentage in finasteride group.

 

[JoeKool]

But Fin changes you... you don't realize it... but it's happening... we know about hardly being interested in sex and libido... but the brain fog sneaks up and you find yourself still poisoning yourself not knowing you're poisoning yourself... then came sweat fits... no idea where or when, but drenched with sweat at the slightest inclining of anxiety

my quote from a post here several years back. You can read my story and all I tried but I also posted an hcg cycle that reversed the damage. Look up my content when you’re ready to quit the poison.

And through my research, I found the manufacturer’s research. They had women interview the men for side effects knowing a man wouldn’t easily or openly admit to a woman they’re suffering from erectile dysfunction. So take the studies with a grain of salt.

 

[sladerunner69]

Is it possible for people to nocebo themselves into thinking they don't have side effects from the drug. I mean if you were told only 2% got side effects, is it possible that someone wouldn't notice they have side effects because they are biased into thinking that they probably aren't in the minority and rationalize what is happening to them (low libido, erectile dysfunction, anxiety, depression...) to other mundane lifestyle choices or life events? I've seen a lot of people on the internet believing strongly in the nocebo effect and calling others fear mongers and that it's all in their heads. I mean yes the nocebo effect is very real, but could someone really be able to rationalize themselves into thinking that the side effects they are experiencing is a figment of their imagination. Is this possible??

Well those of use with full-blown PFS can not deny the condition- it is just that nasty.

I am sure there are people blessed with smaller side effects who can ignore them or work through them relatively quickly - such as Danny Roddy did.