Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[TheBeard]

You're talking about things you don't understand. Perhaps you should learn above the "basics" of endocrinology

"PFS" doesn't fit anywhere in the basics of endocrinology.
And if anyone knows a thing or two about endocrinology on it's forum, it's me.

 

[Vicecaz]

Yes completely!

All of the symptoms described here match those of people suffering frop IBS, SIBO, or parasitic infections.

The fact that their gut health degraded around when they were taking finasteride makes them think they suffer from "PFS", but it couldn't be further from the truth.
There is no such thing as long lasting PFS. When you go off finasteride, your DHT returns and that's it.

I've had all the "PFS" symptoms with my gut issues, and never touched finasteride.
This thread is a collective illusion.

@Infarouge

Here we go again. People that "never touched" finasteride telling you what PFS is.

There are several studies suggesting a significant, long-lasting, persisting decrease in hormones and 5 ar activity POST finasteride. The keyword here being "several studies". But you've never read them, haven't you? That's probably because you think you know enough.

The less you know, the more you think you know. You're the textbook definition of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

You don't know anything about endocrinology, admit it. That's quite a miracle that you can even spell the word correctly at this point.

 

[Ashoka]

Yes completely!

All of the symptoms described here match those of people suffering frop IBS, SIBO, or parasitic infections.

The fact that their gut health degraded around when they were taking finasteride makes them think they suffer from "PFS", but it couldn't be further from the truth.
There is no such thing as long lasting PFS. When you go off finasteride, your DHT returns and that's it.

I've had all the "PFS" symptoms with my gut issues, and never touched finasteride.
This thread is a collective illusion.

@Infarouge

You really shouldn’t make overarching claims about things you don’t have first hand experience with or haven’t researched thoroughly. Not every online discussion is suited for glib and casually dismissive remarks. Peat has said he thinks finasteride damages the liver and intestines, and that taking finasteride is an insane decision. Those were his words. So it’s not a collective illusion, but you do really need to reign in comments like that, and also correct others when they do. People’s lives have been affected and the least you can do is be respectful. In fact if you had any decency you would apologize to everyone who has participated in this thread, but no one is counting on it.

 

[Mister]

Every time I log in to the Peat forum I see this thread trending.
Anyone who practices basic endocrinology understands there is no PFS in any significant sense.
Of coure peeps will blame all there decrepitude on fin or whatever other desperate attempt to regain their lost youth may be.
In any case, after years of seeing this topic trending, I really am put off of the Peat forum in general.
just sayin

You're a retard, I guess you're just trying to cope because you're taking fina/duta for your hair...

@Hans Even wrote an article about the importance of DHT: The truth on DHT: what the research shows » MENELITE

And here are some studies:

Health Risks Associated with Long-Term Finasteride and Dutasteride Use: It's Time to Sound the Alarm

Abstract

5?-dihydrotestosterone (5?-DHT) is the most potent natural androgen. 5?-DHT elicits a multitude of physiological actions, in a host of tissues, including prostate, seminal vesicles, hair follicles, skin, kidney, and lacrimal and meibomian glands. However, the physiological role of 5?-DHT in human physiology, remains questionable and, at best, poorly appreciated. Recent emerging literature supports a role for 5?-DHT in the physiological function of liver, pancreatic ?-cell function and survival, ocular function and prevention of dry eye disease and kidney physiological function. Thus, inhibition of 5?-reductases with finasteride or dutasteride to reduce 5?-DHT biosynthesis in the course of treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) or male pattern hair loss, known as androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) my induces a novel form of tissue specific androgen deficiency and contributes to a host of pathophysiological conditions, that are yet to be fully recognized. Here, we advance the concept that blockade of 5?-reductases by finasteride or dutasteride in a mechanism-based, irreversible, inhabitation of 5?-DHT biosynthesis results in a novel state of androgen deficiency, independent of circulating testosterone levels. Finasteride and dutasteride are frequently prescribed for long-term treatment of lower urinary tract symptoms in men with BPH and in men with Androgenetic Alopecia. This treatment may result in development of non-alcoholic fatty liver diseases (NAFLD), insulin resistance (IR), type 2 diabetes (T2DM), dry eye disease, potential kidney dysfunction, among other metabolic dysfunctions. We suggest that long-term use of finasteride and dutasteride may be associated with health risks including NAFLD, IR, T2DM, dry eye disease and potential kidney disease.

Health Risks Associated with Long-Term Finasteride and Dutasteride Use: It's Time to Sound the Alarm - PubMed

Patients treated for male pattern hair with finasteride show, after discontinuation of the drug, altered levels of neuroactive steroids in cerebrospinal fluid and plasma.

Abstract

Observations performed in a subset of patients treated for male pattern hair loss indicate that persistent sexual side effects as well as anxious/depressive symptomatology have been reported even after discontinuation of finasteride treatment. Due to the capability of finasteride to block the metabolism of progesterone (PROG) and/or testosterone (T) we have evaluated, by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry, the levels of several neuroactive steroids in paired plasma and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) samples obtained from post-finasteride patients and in healthy controls. At the examination, post-finasteride patients reported muscular stiffness, cramps, tremors and chronic fatigue in the absence of clinical evidence of any muscular disorder or strength reduction. Although severity of the anxious/depressive symptoms was quite variable in their frequency, overall all the subjects had a fairly complex and constant neuropsychiatric pattern. Assessment of neuroactive steroid levels in CSF showed a decrease of PROG and its metabolites, dihydroprogesterone (DHP) and tetrahydroprogesterone (THP), associated with an increase of its precursor pregnenolone (PREG). Altered levels were also observed for T and its metabolites. Thus, a significant decrease of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) associated with an increase of T as well as of 3?-diol was detected. Changes in neuroactive steroid levels also occurred in plasma. An increase of PREG, T, 3?-diol, 3?-diol and 17?-estradiol was associated with decreased levels of DHP and THP. The present observations show that altered levels of neuroactive steroids, associated with depression symptoms, are present in androgenic alopecia patients even after discontinuation of the finasteride treatment. This article is part of a Special Issue entitled 'Sex steroids and brain disorders'.


Patients treated for male pattern hair with finasteride show, after discontinuation of the drug, altered levels of neuroactive steroids in cerebrospinal fluid and plasma - PubMed

Adverse Event Reporting in Clinical Trials of Finasteride for Androgenic Alopecia: A Meta-analysis​

Conclusions and relevance: Available toxicity information from clinical trials of finasteride in men with Androgenetic Alopecia is very limited, is of poor quality, and seems to be systematically biased. In a cohort of men prescribed finasteride for routine treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia, most would have been excluded from the pivotal studies that supported US Food and Drug Administration approval for Androgenetic Alopecia. Published reports of clinical trials provide insufficient information to establish the safety profile for finasteride in the treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia.

Adverse Event Reporting in Clinical Trials of Finasteride for Androgenic Alopecia: A Meta-analysis - PubMed

Available toxicity information from clinical trials of finasteride in men with AGA is very limited, is of poor quality, and seems to be systematically biased. In a cohort of men prescribed finasteride for routine treatment of AGA, most would have been excluded from the pivotal studies that...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Efficacy and safety of Finasteride (5 alpha-reductase inhibitor) monotherapy in patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia: A critical review of the literature​

Abstract​

Background: Combination therapy with 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor (5-ARI) and alpha-blocker can be considered as a gold standard intervention for medical management of lower urinary tract symptoms related to benign prostatic hyperplasia (LUTS/BPH). On the other hand, 5-ARI monotherapy and in particular Finasteride alone is currently getting focus of attention especially due to lack of systematic reviews investigating efficacy outcomes and/or adverse events associated.

Objectives: Aim of the present critical review was to analyze current knowledge of clinical efficacy and incidence of adverse events associated with 5-ARI treatment for LUTS/BPH.

Materials and methods: A systematic review of clinical trials of the literature of the past 20 years was performed using database from PubMed, Cochrane Collaboration and Embase. A total of 8821 patients were included in this study and inclusion criteria for studies selection were: data from randomized clinical trials (RCTs) focusing their attention on the clinical role of Finasteride monotherapy for symptomatic BPH. Parameters of research included prostate specific antigen (PSA), prostate volume (PV), International Prostate Symptom Score (IPPS), postvoid residual urine (PVR), voiding symptoms of IPSS (voiding IPSS), maximum urinary flow rate (Qmax), and adverse events (AEs).

Results: Overall 12 original articles were included and critically evaluated. Sample sizes of patient actively treated with finasteride varied from 13 to 1524 cases analyzed in a single study. Follow-up after treatments ranged from 3 to 54 months. The effect of finasteride in reducing prostate volume (PV) was moderate (standardized mean difference (SMD) effect between 0.5 to 0.8 for all trials evaluable) while the effect on IPSS score and Qmax was considered significant (SMD in the 0.2 to 0.5 variation range). No severe AEs and/or psychiatric disorders were retrieved among the studies. Sexual health dysfunctions were significantly influenced by finasteride therapy when compared with placebo treated patients.

Conclusions: Although significant clinical benefits of finasteride monotherapy were demonstrated, the effective size of the available reports included in the analysis is limited. Additional head-to-head studies would be needed to re-evaluate clinical efficacy and safety of 5-ARI in combination or not with alpha blockers.

Efficacy and safety of Finasteride (5 alpha-reductase inhibitor) monotherapy in patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia: A critical review of the literature - PubMed

Although significant clinical benefits of finasteride monotherapy were demonstrated, the effective size of the available reports included in the analysis is limited. Additional head-to-head studies would be needed to re-evaluate clinical efficacy and safety of 5-ARI in combination or not with...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are a ton of studies now showing the dangers and endocrinologists are flooded with PFS patients these days.

Post finasteride syndrome is so real! Hundreds of patients coming to #sandiegosexualmedicine with this. Often have low t. Make sure to check dht also! Some recommend andractim, available in Europe (and online). Shockwave therapy for ED. Can take years to get better for some!



This isn't some niche sh*t, hence this thread being so big and popular.

 

[Mister]

Finasteride also has a big influence on neurosteroids:

The following reactions are known to be catalyzed by 5α-reductase:[9]

• Cholestenone → 5α-Cholestanone
• Progesterone → 5α-Dihydroprogesterone
• 3α-Dihydroprogesterone → Allopregnanolone
• 3β-Dihydroprogesterone → Isopregnanolone
• Deoxycorticosterone → 5α-Dihydrodeoxycorticosterone
• Corticosterone → 5α-Dihydrocorticosterone
• Cortisol → 5α-Dihydrocortisol
• Aldosterone → 5α-Dihydroaldosterone
• Androstenedione → 5α-Androstanedione
• Testosterone → 5α-Dihydrotestosterone
• Nandrolone → 5α-Dihydronandrolone

Neurosteroids like 3α-androstanediol (derived from DHT) and allopregnanolone (derived from progesterone) activate the GABAA receptor in the brain; because finasteride prevents the formation of neurosteroids, it functions as a neurosteroidogenesis inhibitor and may contribute to a reduction of GABAA activity. Reduction of GABAA receptor activation by these neurosteroids has been implicated in depression, anxiety, and sexual dysfunction.[72][73][74]

Finasteride - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ronald1919]

"PFS" doesn't fit anywhere in the basics of endocrinology.
And if anyone knows a thing or two about endocrinology on it's forum, it's me.

You are the biggest joke around here

 

[Coltcool]

.

 

[Coltcool]

Has anyone tried BCAAs for amino acid proteins? I’m On my way! To the store rn and am thinking about picking it up.

 

[Coltcool]

I feel like I’m getting nerve damage.. what can I do??? My arms are tingly and sensitive for no reason

 

[Coltcool]

I think I’m getting nerve damage and I’ve never been more scared. I crashed 5 weeks ago and have seen improvements in my sides, but I’m getting a new one that is terrifying. I think I am getting nerve damage. My arena, chest, neck have had a weird numbing tickly or itchy feeling fovno reason

 

[Karlucchi]

The nerve damage happens to most people with PFS. The neurosteroids are needed for nerve function and now your body lacks them. Getting your 5AR receptors back online will eventually fix the problem.

 

[Karlucchi]

I think people that haven't suffered from PFS should stop chiming into this discussion. It's not your problem and it does not concern you. Go spread your knowledge on other posts and let us that are sufferers work together to help each other on this one.

 

[Coltcool]

The nerve damage happens to most people with PFS. The neurosteroids are needed for nerve function and now your body lacks them. Getting your 5AR receptors back online will eventually fix the problem.

Has anyone actually been able to fix it? Bruh PFS is trash

 

[Karlucchi]

Yes they have. When your neurosteroids return to adequate levels, your nerve endings will regenerate as well. It takes time though.

 

[Karlucchi]

Alright I have an update. So my last update was April 8 and I said I was feeling great. After every injection I got an immediate boost in libido which faded until the next one. Well soon after that post things changed. I stopped getting the libido boost after the injection and started feeling IT a couple days after (like on a Sunday). I continued the protocol and this kept happening. Then I started getting migraines frequently, usually at night. My balls are still fuller than they were when I was off the protocol.

I think the hcg protocol started making my estrogen get too high so went out and bought Calcium D-Glucarate to help my body process it out of my system faster. Almost immediately my libido seems to be returning. I'll keep everyone updated on my experience but maybe the Calcium D-Glucarate should be part of the hcg protocol?

 

[Coltcool]

I just found this and think that it's interesting.

 

[Coltcool]

I am pretty sure I crashed again a few days ago. Does that happen? I crashed coming up on 6 weeks ago and for the first 2 weeks I was bedridden, then weeks like 2 1/2 through to week 5 I was doing much better getting better sleep each night and having less mental side effects and whatnot, but since 5 days ago I’m doing immensely worse. On that day I tried out a new probiotic, which I think contributed to this. I’m

 

[Coltcool]

I feel like giving up, things are so bad now. I have even more new side effects!? Since getting worse a few days ago my libido isn’t there and I feel no interest in sex/masturbation.l, whereas literally the days before the second crash if that’s what you’d call it I was so horny I had no idea why. I just felt my penis and it feels colder and more difficult to get erect. The nerve issues are scaring me most now because it seems to be spreading down my body.

 

[JoeKool]

Hello Everyone, I've been lurking and seeing some great posts as well as some posts that I shouldn't let bug me but clowns gonna clown. I'm doing a research dump here just to make sure everyone has everything, you'll see why.

First the great posts. @fever257 definitely sounds like you had a good 1st month and I'm praying you see more results. You're in good hands here.

@Beefsnacks dropping the great news b0mb! Though it's not fully back with libido (remember, male libido is from estrogen sensitizing the Androgen Receptors so I'm hoping you'll see things come back over a few weeks post PCT) but that's still some great results on HCG.

@jinstewart Still super happy you're seeing the mental benefits. I would expect the sexual benefits to be nearby but perhaps you need a higher dose of HCG to hit the sex steroids more. I would say you have some options to stop HCG, see how you feel and then restarting with a goal of sex hormones using higher dose, more along the lines of bodybuilder's PCT but check with @MyUsernameHere as he did a stop for i think 6 weeks and then restarted. There might be a good use case. Nevertheless, honestly just so happy that you saw these results.

@Karlucchi some good information there on Calcium D-Glucarate. I've always been interested in that 'liver detoxing' benefits but I also know testosterone can be Glucarated (I'm likely not spelling that right) so CdG may flush some of what we want too. At what level? Who knows but you definitely have some good experience to share. Consider twice weekly or maybe every other day dosing. Obviously you know your body so go with what you feel is best but there are options. Also, don't forget, skipping a day's HCG shot also won't destroy the cycle, perhaps to let estrogen settle (if you're seeing it rise). @Jayvee is good at dialing things in like that and adding support supplements like you said could be helpful to many.

Good thing we didn't "Close the chapter on HCG" like some wanted. SmH

I want to repost this page so new ppl coming in immediately see this : Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

In my research, i found sites through the internet archive that could offer some more positives or advice, in fact, it's where I first learned of StAR so i just want everyone to have these pages too:

Post-Finasteride Syndrome Recovery: How to reduce gut inflammation

The Quick and Dirty Guide to reducing gut inflammation for people with PFS. This is a key step in recovering after Propecia.

web.archive.org

Key To Curing Post-Finasteride Syndrome: Inflammation

Victims of Post-Finasteride Syndrome have certain hurdles to overcome to allow their bodies endocrine system to rebalance. The first is inflammation.

web.archive.org

Calcium and Magnesium for Post-Finasteride Syndrome Recovery

Calcium, how it is used in your body and how much of it you eat along with the cofactor magnesium, has wide ranging implications for post-finasteride syndrome recovery.

web.archive.org

Post-Finasteride Syndrome and The Thyroid Gland: What you may not know

My guide to everything thyroid and post-finasteride syndrome related.

web.archive.org

How To Treat Post Finasteride Syndrome (Propecia Side Effects in Context)

The purpose of this article is to give some basic context to what PFS is and to do an initial introduction of the concepts involved in treating it. I’m writing this because I’ve overcome PFS mysel…

web.archive.org

Post-Finasteride Syndrome Recovery: How to reduce gut inflammation

The Quick and Dirty Guide to reducing gut inflammation for people with PFS. This is a key step in recovering after Propecia.

web.archive.org

Those are not my writings and i have zero affiliation with them. The sites are no longer active but the internet archive has them for research. Whether someone uses this info to dial in a missing 'key' but I don't want to derail this thread by posting these links to indicate PFS is a 'gut' issue or a calcium issue. It's neurosteroids. It's neurosteroids. It's neurosteroids. (But again, eating well is good for anyone so the links that talk about gut inflammation could trigger some ideas but I don't want people to think "I'll cut out Gluten instead of using HCG" ... ah you get my point )

And finally, I'm nearing the end of the line for my PFS involvement. I am 99% sure I will be logging off Memorial Day weekend for good. Certain posts irk me more than I should let them and I get frustrated.

That would have meant I gave over a year back to the community & tried to get as many ppl some relief and healing, to which I think we've succeeded as a great group. I've always to heal and then help others.

This should never have happened to us.

Yet we all met

Shared some virtual high fives & occasional hugs (I'm looking at you @jinstewart lol lol )

Shared some important knowledge and experience

Probably saved a life or two, now and into the future.

But clearly showed, there's light at the end of the tunnel

 

[Coltcool]

has anyone given fasting a try? Autophagy seems really interesting and may help reset or fix our systems.

or has anyone tried creative powder to try and increase dht?