Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

Sospian

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Fin messes up the hormones. Wich, I believe, leads to histamine intolerance and mcas, wich leads to inflammation and Neurotransmitter mess. Histamine intolerance is usually a womens problem because of high estrogen.

I believe most pfs sufferers have histamine intolerance but are not aware of. Mine started directly with fin. My body started to itch and scratch everywhere and ever since does. The real food intolerance came years after stopping fin.

Found this interesting Histamine effects on neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine) - Mast Attack

Damn man, you sure as hell did your research. Modafinil used to amplify my autistic spectrum symptoms by 10-fold. Couldn't even look someone in the eye.
 

Fairplay

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@Sospian Just FYI , so you understand what PFS is.

On hackstasis we had a theory of upregulated AR in DHT sensitive tissues. So to check this theory we suggested one of the members to go back on low dose dutasteride, to inhibit both 5ar1 and 5ar2.

He is now fully recovered from PFS for almost a year. and at a 100%, while of course taking this low dose dutasteride.

Also if you go on propeciahelp, you will see that folks feel recovered on nandrolone.

Anything that blocks DHT makes people feel recovered. of course it is not a cure, but it tells you what PFS is.
 

Alexandre Lim

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Fin messes up the hormones. Wich, I believe, leads to histamine intolerance and mcas, wich leads to inflammation and Neurotransmitter mess. Histamine intolerance is usually a womens problem because of high estrogen.

I believe most pfs sufferers have histamine intolerance but are not aware of. Mine started directly with fin. My body started to itch and scratch everywhere and ever since does. The real food intolerance came years after stopping fin.

Found this interesting Histamine effects on neurotransmitters (serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine) - Mast Attack
What does it do neurologically?
@Sospian Just FYI , so you understand what PFS is.

On hackstasis we had a theory of upregulated AR in DHT sensitive tissues. So to check this theory we suggested one of the members to go back on low dose dutasteride, to inhibit both 5ar1 and 5ar2.

He is now fully recovered from PFS for almost a year. and at a 100%, while of course taking this low dose dutasteride.

Also if you go on propeciahelp, you will see that folks feel recovered on nandrolone.

Anything that blocks DHT makes people feel recovered. of course it is not a cure, but it tells you what PFS is.
What pfs symptoms did he have? from dutasteride
 

Fairplay

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Who is this person. Id like to communicate with him.

you can go on hackstasis and see Jack17 thread. He is the one who is taking dutasteride and is FULLY recovered from PFS. but he is taking dutasteride.

I mentioned this so people here including Joekool stop spreading misinformation on what PFS is.
 

Sospian

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@Sospian Just FYI , so you understand what PFS is.

On hackstasis we had a theory of upregulated AR in DHT sensitive tissues. So to check this theory we suggested one of the members to go back on low dose dutasteride, to inhibit both 5ar1 and 5ar2.

He is now fully recovered from PFS for almost a year. and at a 100%, while of course taking this low dose dutasteride.

Also if you go on propeciahelp, you will see that folks feel recovered on nandrolone.

Anything that blocks DHT makes people feel recovered. of course it is not a cure, but it tells you what PFS is.

My issues seem to have recovered. My sex drive is high and I'm assertive and confident. I just assumed PFS was a diagnosis that could be applied to any DHT-deficient state caused externally (e.g. Saw Palmetto).

I also had an issue where I went completely emotionless and couldn't be aroused after abusing Ashwaghanda, but I seem to feel at least something now after tooling around with dopamine functionality and stress release, but a few people said the state of anhedonia is essentially PSSD.

In regard to DHT, I honestly love the way I feel and act now. I had sex earlier for the first time in a while and my assertive dominance is up through the roof, so boosting DHT has definitely made a significant different to mentality, let alone masculinisation

My face has masculinised so much that I'm starting to look like a grumpy caveman. I definitely didn't have the highest DHT before 19nors, but after my hormones never really recovered. I developed a varicocele that further drops DHT by around 40% and pretty much lived with low DHT since.
 

Fairplay

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My issues seem to have recovered. My sex drive is high and I'm assertive and confident. I just assumed PFS was a diagnosis that could be applied to any DHT-deficient state caused externally (e.g. Saw Palmetto).

I also had an issue where I went completely emotionless and couldn't be aroused after abusing Ashwaghanda, but I seem to feel at least something now after tooling around with dopamine functionality and stress release, but a few people said the state of anhedonia is essentially PSSD.

In regard to DHT, I honestly love the way I feel and act now. I had sex earlier for the first time in a while and my assertive dominance is up through the roof, so boosting DHT has definitely made a significant different to mentality, let alone masculinisation

My face has masculinised so much that I'm starting to look like a grumpy caveman. I definitely didn't have the highest DHT before 19nors, but after my hormones never really recovered. I developed a varicocele that further drops DHT by around 40% and pretty much lived with low DHT since.


You did everything correct. You ran proviron. and then you went on HCG.

The only thing you also screwed with dopamine, so I hoped it would not affect your erections.

in PFS , strong Androgen receptor is blocking VDR. VDR is the vit D receptor.


Androgen receptor blocks its transcription.

This is why during orgasm prolactin rises, to RETAIN CALCIUM that you lost in sperm.

Prolactin increases conversion of vitamin D into its active form.

So in PFS since AR is blocking VDR , your prolactin is always high , trying to retain calcium , but it cant.


this is why when you run proviron. You downregulate your AR, and then after you quit proviron VDR is free. so can retains calcium.

And this increases your OPIODS immediately and shuts you down.

So then you run HCG which tells your body to DOWNREGULATE ERa. Just like after regular TRT shut down.

so your dopamine to noradrenaline conversion lowers and your opiods fall down. and LH goes back up.


If you nuke your prolactin too much, then you will have low prolactin, and low vitamin D conversion. and this will give you low calcium and no calcium to start enzyme like NOS, Thyroid hormone DUOX, Opiods, ETC

that is why I was worried that if you overdid with dopamine, this can affect your calcium metabolism now and affect the cure. Specifically only erections.


Other than that you did everything right
 
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Alexandre Lim

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You did everything correct. You ran proviron. and then you went on HCG.

The only thing you also screwed with dopamine, so I hoped it would not affect your erections.

in PFS , strong Androgen receptor is blocking VDR. VDR is the vit D receptor.


Androgen receptor blocks its transcription.

This is why during orgasm prolactin rises, to RETAIN CALCIUM that you lost in sperm.

Prolactin increases conversion of vitamin D into its active form.

So in PFS since AR is blocking VDR , your prolactin is always high , trying to retain calcium , but it cant.


this is why when you run proviron. You downregulate your AR, and then after you quit proviron VDR is free. so can retains calcium.

And this increases your OPIODS immediately and shuts you down.

So then you run HCG which tells your body to DOWNREGULATE ERa.

so your dopamine to noradrenaline conversion lowers and your opiods falls down. and LH goes back up.


If you nuke your prolactin too much, then you will have low prolactin, and low vitamin D conversion. and this will give you low calcium and no calcium to start enzyme like NOS, Thyroid hormone DUOX, Opiods, ETC

that is why I was worried that if you overdid with dopamine, this can affect your calcium metabolism now and affect the cure. Specifically only erections.

Id like to understand all this. but its like foreign language man. I used Dutasteride for a month . It has completely changed my brain , how I think , insomnia, lowenergy.
Other than that you did everything right
 

Fairplay

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@Sospian DHT is Proviron, did you feel good on proviron LOL , of course not.

PFS is low cortisol release, which then BINDS your testosterone, and you become estrogen dominant. so as s0on as you downregulate AR where DHT is.

your AR is not blocking VDR and your NORADRENALINE works. since noradrenaline needs calcium to work thru A1 receptor.

the minute noradrenaline works, you have confidence, and everything else, and also your noradrenaline is allowed to convert into adrenaline.

which then increases cortisol. The minute cortisol is released , your testosterone and DHT get free( lower SHBG) and you get masculinity back
 
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GenericName86

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Jun 30, 2018
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Weird, I always thought I had PFS but that's not the case apparently? Whenever I did stuff to raise dht i felt better. So what did fin do to me then? lol. I had all sorts of issues when i got off it. Damn this drug.
 

Fairplay

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Weird, I always thought I had PFS but that's not the case apparently? Whenever I did stuff to raise dht i felt better. So what did fin do to me then? lol. I had all sorts of issues when i got off it. Damn this drug.


SHBG is high in people in binds DHT. SHBG binds DHT the most.. but since in the brain AR is strong, it tells the body to bind DHT, so brain is androgenic , but body is estrogenic.

Folks on hackstasis also felt ok on DHT derivative for couple of days, and then very bad but they ran it despite, and then after proviron left the system. they go on HCG and feel recovered from the fist couple of injections. Since they are out of PFS, and have just a regular shutdown, which HCG fixes.

but people who ran HCG solo, are still running it, for over 15 weeks, with Nothing happening. Maybe still not enough time for HCG solo

.
 
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GenericName86

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Oh ok. Well I know when I jumped on fin it made my hair worse, my face became more oily and acne prone and i was getting scalp bumps/pimples plus insane shedding that never stopped even from the sides even the back, like my cortisol or prolactin got jacked up while on it. I never really lost my sex drive though which I guess is one of the hallmarks of pfs? but never really felt "normal" again after coming off it. So I have no idea what to do or how to tackle it.
 

Fairplay

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@Sospian @CureOrCause


Effects of Subchronic Finasteride Treatment and Withdrawal on Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Their Receptors in the Male Rat Brain - PubMed

As you can see:

When you go on FIN, this upregulates AR in the brain and upregulates GABA in the brain.( since DHT is more for brain )

Then when you quit FIN, AR is still upregulated but GABA downregulates, and ERa upregulates.

Here is Melcangi study. http://www.associazionevittimefinas...oads/2017/05/Melcangi-Research-April-2017.pdf

As you can see 3alpha diol is high.


So as DHT goes back up ,it hits the AR which blocks VDR. As VDR is blocked Noradrenaline which works thru adrenergic receptors A1 is not working( calcium). So you get no sympathetic nervous system. Gaba downregulates to match. And ERa upregulates to start pumping noradrenaline.. since ERa( estrogen alpha) provides copper for enzyme like DBH , PAM, amidating POMC. ERa basically increases conversion of dopamine into noradrenaline, and prolactin rises. Prolactin converts vitamin D into its active form, that is why people could see low vit D in their blood.

When people run TRT, as testosterone rises high, the body wants to match that testosterone with cortisol. So it starts converting testosterone into estrogen and upregulates ERa which increases cortisol release. ERa is the receptor which suppresses LH in the brain since Era increases prolactin and this prolactin retains calcium and calcium increases CRF1 which increases ACTH and Opiods which then suppress LH. This is why after TRT , people run clomid ( which is estrogen ) to downregulate ERa in the brain, or they can run low dose(not HIGH) HCG. since HCG is LH and it downregulates ERa.

in PFS , remember VDR is blocked by AR, so ERa goes up to pump more noradrenaline. Since VDR is blocked, your get no opiods( emotions libido) , you get low calcium in sperm( water sperm), you get no nitric oxide release( calcium based) etc. So brain sensing high DHT, lowers 5AR and binds DHT in blood with SHBG. So you have lower AR activation, and higher ERa activation to pump noradrenaline as I explained above. So now you have androgenic brain and estrogenic body.

When then you run proviron, you downregulate your AR in the brain, then VDR is not blocked anymore and your calcium works. Noradrenaline starts working, opiods start working , thyroid starts working,balls fill up. so now the body want to lower ERa activation and density( it upregulated it the same as after regular TRT). Now it wants to lower prolactin levels. since it does not want to pump noradrenaline anymore right, since it is working now since you unblocked VDR. So now the body wants to increase LH to retain zinc and iron, to block high opiods.. So the brain tells the body to lower SHBG, and start increasing LH. At this stage increasing hormones with HCG feels androgenic. At this point you are in a simple TRT shutdown, which I mentioned above, which is dealt with HCG low dosage.
 
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Tyr1

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Sep 20, 2020
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I'm a new member here with PFS. I'm going to try HCG 250iu Mon, Wed and Fri for 6 months.

I finished about 7 weeks ago a Proviron 200mg every day for 30 days and if it did change anything, I haven't noticed.

According to your theory should do the HCG protocol now or go back on Proviron again before starting HCG?
 

Enzote2

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Aug 27, 2020
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@Sospian @CureOrCause


Effects of Subchronic Finasteride Treatment and Withdrawal on Neuroactive Steroid Levels and Their Receptors in the Male Rat Brain - PubMed

As you can see:

When you go on FIN, this upregulates AR in the brain and upregulates GABA in the brain.( since DHT is more for brain )

Then when you quit FIN, AR is still upregulated but GABA downregulates, and ERa upregulates.

Here is Melcangi study. http://www.associazionevittimefinas...oads/2017/05/Melcangi-Research-April-2017.pdf

As you can see 3alpha diol is high.


So as DHT goes back up ,it hits the AR which blocks VDR. As VDR is blocked Noradrenaline which works thru adrenergic receptors A1 is not working( calcium). So you get no sympathetic nervous system. Gaba downregulates to match. And ERa upregulates to start pumping noradrenaline.. since ERa( estrogen alpha) provides copper for enzyme like DBH , PAM, amidating POMC. ERa basically increases conversion of dopamine into noradrenaline, and prolactin rises. Prolactin converts vitamin D into its active form, that is why people could see low vit D in their blood.

When people run TRT, as testosterone rises high, the body wants to match that testosterone with cortisol. So it starts converting testosterone into estrogen and upregulates ERa which increases cortisol release. ERa is the receptor which suppresses LH in the brain since Era increases prolactin and this prolactin retains calcium and calcium increases CRF1 which increases ACTH and Opiods which then suppress LH. This is why after TRT , people run clomid ( which is estrogen ) to downregulate ERa in the brain, or they can run low dose(not HIGH) HCG. since HCG is LH and it downregulates ERa.

in PFS , remember VDR is blocked by AR, so ERa goes up to pump more noradrenaline. Since VDR is blocked, your get no opiods( emotions libido) , you get low calcium in sperm( water sperm), you get no nitric oxide release( calcium based) etc. So brain sensing high DHT, lowers 5AR and binds DHT in blood with SHBG. So you have lower AR activation, and higher ERa activation to pump noradrenaline as I explained above. So now you have androgenic brain and estrogenic body.

When then you run proviron, you downregulate your AR in the brain, then VDR is not blocked anymore and your calcium works. Noradrenaline starts working, opiods start working , thyroid starts working,balls fill up. so now the body want to lower ERa activation and density( it upregulated it the same as after regular TRT). Now it wants to lower prolactin levels. since it does not want to pump noradrenaline anymore right, since it is working now since you unblocked VDR. So now the body wants to increase LH to retain zinc and iron, to block high opiods.. So the brain tells the body to lower SHBG, and start increasing LH. At this stage increasing hormones with HCG feels androgenic. At this point you are in a simple TRT shutdown, which I mentioned above, which is dealt with HCG low dosage.

Would you say thay proviron cycle + hcg cycle can improve anhedonia and depression? Or anyone has an answer for this?

I can function okay sexually but mental sides are ******* worst. No love, no joy, no happiness only crying.
 

Sospian

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You did everything correct. You ran proviron. and then you went on HCG.

The only thing you also screwed with dopamine, so I hoped it would not affect your erections.

in PFS , strong Androgen receptor is blocking VDR. VDR is the vit D receptor.


Androgen receptor blocks its transcription.

This is why during orgasm prolactin rises, to RETAIN CALCIUM that you lost in sperm.

Prolactin increases conversion of vitamin D into its active form.

So in PFS since AR is blocking VDR , your prolactin is always high , trying to retain calcium , but it cant.


this is why when you run proviron. You downregulate your AR, and then after you quit proviron VDR is free. so can retains calcium.

And this increases your OPIODS immediately and shuts you down.

So then you run HCG which tells your body to DOWNREGULATE ERa. Just like after regular TRT shut down.

so your dopamine to noradrenaline conversion lowers and your opiods fall down. and LH goes back up.


If you nuke your prolactin too much, then you will have low prolactin, and low vitamin D conversion. and this will give you low calcium and no calcium to start enzyme like NOS, Thyroid hormone DUOX, Opiods, ETC

that is why I was worried that if you overdid with dopamine, this can affect your calcium metabolism now and affect the cure. Specifically only erections.


Other than that you did everything right

Funnily enough, I had a swollen thyroid as of recent that seemed to disappear after I started taking egg shell calcium again.

I've always had low-end calcium levels in spite having high vitamin D and normal parathyroid levels. Personally I don't understand the connection between the two (calcium and a functional thyroid), however iodine and selenium did nothing for me whereas calcium worked almost within a day.

Would you say thay proviron cycle + hcg cycle can improve anhedonia and depression? Or anyone has an answer for this?

I can function okay sexually but mental sides are ******* worst. No love, no joy, no happiness only crying.

Proviron was definitely very masculinising and improved confidence. As for anhedonia (something I suffered with but found a way to manage), to me it feels like high serotonin and cortisol give you that emotionless feeling. With hCG being estrogen, those two hormones get knocked up meaning that you might be more prone to it.

That being said, I've been running 9-Me-BC on the side to increase dopamine (which decreases serotonin) and I'm more than sure that's helped.

I picture anhedonia like this: imagine a glass that is constantly filling with water. The glass is your central nervous system and the water is stress. In anhedonia, once the glass reaches the top it begins to solidify as ice, making it hard to empty.

The best way to empty the glass is to unthaw the ice first otherwise everything stays trapped inside. To unthaw the ice, you need to release stress and tension by crying, which is not easy when you cannot feel anything.

That's why you use something that acts as an emotional trigger; a song that makes you sad. When you notice that feelings start surfacing, you need to let go and allow yourself to cry. Cry as hard as you need to. It doesn't have to be long, but I promise you that you will feel the difference immediately after.

Sometime last year my anhedonia was really bad. Complete emotional numbness that felt impossible to recover from, but there was always one song in my gym playlist that gave me a surge of emotion (that I used for powerlifting).

After realising I had tears going down my face while heavy lifting one day, I decided to listen to listen to it while at home in my room; damn did I cry like a baby. Guess what? After a good 15 minutes, the difference was night and day. I could actually feel again, and it felt like I had released a huge weight off my shoulders that for once wasn't a barbell.

Ever since I've set aside a day once every 3-4 weeks to have an almost ritualistic-like night. I take a few hits of a joint, jump in the hot bath and let everything come out.

It no longer takes as much effort to cry because I haven't been that anhedonic since, but I've also noticed that if I don't take the time to "cleanse my sins" then I become apathetic, which seemed identical to Han's "High serotonin personality traits" article, that gradually worsens into full-blown anhedonia if left untreated.
 
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Fairplay

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Funnily enough, I had a swollen thyroid as of recent that seemed to disappear after I started taking egg shell calcium again.

I've always had low-end calcium levels in spite having high vitamin D and normal parathyroid levels. Personally I don't understand the connection between the two (calcium and a functional thyroid), however iodine and selenium did nothing for me whereas calcium worked almost within a day.

Dual oxidase 1 - Wikipedia

Dual oxidases are characterized by a defining N-terminal, extracellular domain exhibiting considerable sequence identity with the mammalian peroxidases, a transmembrane (TM) segment appended to an EF-hand calcium-binding cytosolic region and a NOX2 homologous structure (six TMs tethered to NADPH oxidase). Topological studies place this peroxidase domain on the opposite side of the membrane from the NADPH oxidase domain.

hDUOX1 and hDUOX2 are 83% homologous, ~190 kDa in size (after extensive glycosylation contributing ~30 kDa in mass), and require maturation factors (DUOXA1 and DUOXA2) to achieve heterologous expression in full-length, active form. Mature DUOX enzymes produce H2O2; this activity is regulated by Ca2+ concentration through triggered dissociation of NOXA1 and possibly other as yet unidentified interacting proteins.[17] When sequence alignments were performed against other mammalian peroxidases, the histidine residues responsible for heme coordination were not conserved.[18] Due to this critical disparity, much speculation has surrounded the function of the DUOX peroxidase domain(s). Proposals for functionality include: superoxide dismutase activity, instead of peroxidase activity; a novel peroxidase mechanism; a protein-protein or Ca2+ induced conformational change which subsequently allows heme binding for peroxidase activity; or simply inactivity, as a vestigial domain.
 

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