Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[Ras]

Miller was right about allopregnanolone. A couple of months ago a new Melcangi study showed allopreg treatment helped to normalize a lot of inflammation markers.

Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

Nope my proviron wasn't verified, maybe I'll test it. But from my research it should be legit. I've had mine tested (it's from PPL which has a reputation for being 'flawless' here): The Proviron is legit but the Testosterone base (which some people here on RPF used even orally) turned out...

raypeatforum.com

And as I posted pages back too, PEA Palmitoylethanolamide could help us.

Also this summary made by that user about Miller's theory is very interesting: https://forum.propeciahelp.com/uplo.../c5414badedf443eaad1fbcdc695cd340151c206a.doc

Have you tried PEA?

 

[Mister]

Have you tried PEA?

Not yet.

 

[GenericName86]

Seems some tried it although for very short periods of time because it made them feel worse. But as many recoveries have shown this isn't necesserarily a bad thing, remember PAL's recovery with proviron and him stating he never felt so bad during his cycle...

Glad I went back a few pages to your post and saw this because this is how I felt, almost like it had anti androgenic or maybe estrogen boosting effects weirdly enough so i stopped taking it. I did a quick search to see if my suspicions were confirmed and did find a study showing it lowered dht production in BPH induced rats but that's in rats and whatever other variables there were for that study.

 

[Mister]

Glad I went back a few pages to your post and saw this because this is how I felt, almost like it had anti androgenic or maybe estrogen boosting effects weirdly enough so i stopped taking it. I did a quick search to see if my suspicions were confirmed and did find a study showing it lowered dht production in BPH induced rats but that's in rats and whatever other variables there were for that study.

You're talking about PEA right? Please post that study.

And how long have and how much PEA have you been taking?

 

[GenericName86]

You're talking about PEA right? Please post that study.

And how long have and how much PEA have you been taking?

Yeah, Palmitoylethanolamide. I was taking two 300mg caps a day, although the dose recommended on the bottle was twice a day and I was doing this for almost 2 weeks.

I believe this was the study I saw Palmitoylethanolamide/Baicalein Regulates the Androgen Receptor Signaling and NF-κB/Nrf2 Pathways in Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia - PubMed looking on it again it mentions this was in combination was a flavonoid which could explain it, also it begind with increase in dht but the abstract ends with "Our results show that um-PEA/Baic is capable of decreasing prostate weight and DHT production in BPH-induced rats, as well as being able to modulate apoptotic and inflammatory pathways and oxidative stress" found this when googling for the study too - Effects of a co-micronized composite containing palmitoylethanolamide and polydatin in an experimental model of benign prostatic hyperplasia (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV Again, I'm not good at interpreting these, so hopefully you can correct my thoughts on the subject if they're incorrect.

I'm not very good at interpreting studies which is why I didn't use it as confirmation bias. For all I know it could be regulating in a positive way or I'm completely misreading what they're trying to show

 

[Mister]

Yeah, Palmitoylethanolamide. I was taking two 300mg caps a day, although the dose recommended on the bottle was twice a day and I was doing this for almost 2 weeks.

I believe this was the study I saw Palmitoylethanolamide/Baicalein Regulates the Androgen Receptor Signaling and NF-κB/Nrf2 Pathways in Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia - PubMed looking on it again it mentions this was in combination was a flavonoid which could explain it, also it begind with increase in dht but the abstract ends with "Our results show that um-PEA/Baic is capable of decreasing prostate weight and DHT production in BPH-induced rats, as well as being able to modulate apoptotic and inflammatory pathways and oxidative stress" found this when googling for the study too - Effects of a co-micronized composite containing palmitoylethanolamide and polydatin in an experimental model of benign prostatic hyperplasia (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV Again, I'm not good at interpreting these, so hopefully you can correct my thoughts on the subject if they're incorrect.

I'm not very good at interpreting studies which is why I didn't use it as confirmation bias. For all I know it could be regulating in a positive way or I'm completely misreading what they're trying to show

Thank you for posting those studies! Btw @GenericName86 do you have PFS?

Now for the first one: Palmitoylethanolamide/Baicalein Regulates the Androgen Receptor Signaling and NF-κB/Nrf2 Pathways in Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia - PubMed

Abstract

Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is the most common benign tumor in males. Androgen/androgen receptor (AR) signaling plays a key role in the development of BPH; its alterations cause an imbalance between prostate cell growth and apoptosis. Furthermore, chronic inflammation and oxidative stress, which are common conditions in BPH, contribute to disrupting the homeostasis between cell proliferation and cell death. With this background in mind, we investigated the effect of ultramicronized palmitoylethanolamide (um-PEA), baicalein (Baic) and co-ultramicronized um-PEA/Baic in a fixed ratio of 10:1 in an experimental model of BPH. BPH was induced in rats by daily administration of testosterone propionate (3 mg/kg) for 14 days. Baic (1 mg/kg), um-PEA (9 mg/kg) and um-PEA/Baic (10 mg/kg) were administered orally every day for 14 days. This protocol led to alterations in prostate morphology and increased levels of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and of androgen receptor and 5α-reductase expression. Moreover, testosterone injections induced a significant increase in markers of inflammation, apoptosis and oxidative stress. Our results show that um-PEA/Baic is capable of decreasing prostate weight and DHT production in BPH-induced rats, as well as being able to modulate apoptotic and inflammatory pathways and oxidative stress. These effects were most likely related to the synergy between the anti-inflammatory properties of um-PEA and the antioxidant effects of Baic. These results support the view that um-PEA/Baic should be further studied as a potent candidate for the management of BPH.

Weird, so they say the protocol helped to increase DHT, Androgen receptors and 5a reducatase expression but at the same time they say it decreased DHT production... Bit contradictory. Although I did find that the other substance used in your study; Baicalein is anti androgenic: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._dimerization_and_AR-coactivators_interaction

Baicalein suppresses the androgen receptor (AR)-mediated prostate cancer progression via inhibiting the AR N-C dimerization and AR-coactivators interaction​

So could be that baicalein is responsible for the decrease in DHT production. Do you have access to the full study? If someone has access to the full study please let us know.


Second stuyd: Effects of a co-micronized composite containing palmitoylethanolamide and polydatin in an experimental model of benign prostatic hyperplasia (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

Abstract​

Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA), a fatty acid amide-signaling molecule has well-known anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective effects. Nevertheless, PEA does not possess the ability to prevent free radicals formation. Polydatin (PLD), a biological precursor of resveratrol, has antioxidant activity. A combination of PEA and PLD could, conceivably, have beneficial effects on oxidative stress produced by inflammatory processes. In the present study we investigated the effects of a co-micronized composite containing PEA and PLD (m(PEA/PLD)) in a model of testosterone-induced benign hyperplasia (BPH). BPH was provoked in rats by daily administration of testosterone propionate (3 mg/kg) for 14 days. This protocol leads to alterations in prostate morphology and increased levels of prostaglandin E2 and dihydrotestosterone as well as of 5α-reductase 1 and 5α-reductase 2 expression. Moreover, testosterone induced marked inflammation in terms of an increase in nuclear translocation of nuclear factor-κB p65 and consequently in IκB-α degradation as well as disregulation of inducible nitric oxide synthase, cyclooxygenase-2 and manganese superoxide dismutase expression and in the apoptosis pathway. Our results show, for the first time, that m(PEA/PLD) is capable of decreasing prostate weight and dihydrotestosterone production in BPH-induced rats. These effects were most likely correlated to the anti-inflammatory and apoptotic effects of m(PEA/PLD).

Can't find a lot about the other substance's (Polydatin) anti androgenic properties though. Do you have access to the full study?

Although many other studies show PEA is pro androgenic and Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) is a substance naturally produced in many cell types in our bodies, including in very high concentrations in our brains.

Also upregulats 5alpha reductase1 and of course many neurosteroids like allopregnenalone. So the question, is it PEA that decreases DHT production or the other substances from your studies? Hard to say without digging deeper. Maybe someone else can help clear this up. It's also important to note that some things become "anti androgenic" in high doses, like zinc if I recall correctly.

Interesting thread full of studies of PEA: Effect of Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) partially inhibited by finasteride - Theory Good read

@Hans @haidut Could you guys give your perspective on PEA please, is it anti androgenic or not?

Unrelated but also found an interesting study about PEA helping a man for pelvic pain. Since PFS I sometimes have stings in my pelvic area, almost always the left side.

Misdiagnosed Chronic Pelvic Pain: Pudendal Neuralgia Responding to a Novel Use of Palmitoylethanolamide

Abstract. Background. Pudendal neuralgia is a cause of chronic, disabling, and often intractable perineal pain presenting as burning, tearing, sharp shooting, f

academic.oup.com

 

[Mister]

@GenericName86 Found this report, user said he noticed less morning wood taking PEA:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Biohackers/comments/qoke6v/comment/hjtibiy/

 

[Mister]

Good opinion piece about PFS from urologist: FINASTERIDE and DEPRESSION

What he suggests as therapy:

Suggested Management, side effects, Prognosis and Follow-up​

Management: Stop taking Finasteride and contact a Metabolic Medicine or Functional Medicine MD – present a copy of this article and discuss these suggestions:
[1] Correct Allopregnenolone deficiency with Pregnenolone and Progesterone (50 – 100 mg each), at bedtime.
[2] Take Melatonin, 10 mg at bedtime, as an adjunct to Allopregnenolone, to improve sleep, mood and anxiety and to act as an antioxidant.
[3] Take DHEA, 50 mg, daily (no more than 50mg /day, so as to avoid aromatisation to Oestrogen): note that >50mg may raise Oestrogen to female levels, producing gynecomastia and occasionally, painful breast cysts.
[4] Test HS CRP, Homcysteine, IGF, Heavy Metals and other markers and treat ad hoc.
[5] Correct intracellular hypothyroidism with a slow-release formulation of Triiodothyronine (AKA Liothyronine), titrated upward from 10mcg daily in 5mcg increments, to achieve a T3 level between 5.0 and 6.2 Picomoles/Litre:
Do not take desiccated thyroid, because 70% of DT is T4 and in intracellular hypothyroidism, T4 is processed preferentially to rT3.
DO NOT TAKE Eltroxin or Synthroid, for the same reason.
[6] Test for T3 weekly, at 4 hours post-dose (Ideal dose time 4AM): maintain the dose at the current level, when a serum FreeT3 of 5.0 – 6.2 Pmol per litre is achieved.
Note that since T3’s half-life is only 2-3 hours, there is no need to wait six weeks for re-testing, as is done for T4, whose half-life is 5 – 7 days.
[7] Re-test for rT3, T4 and TSH when the serum T3 is > 5.0 Pm/L.
[8] Take Vit D, B12, MTHF, NAC, CoQ10, I-3C, Zinc, Iron, Magnesium, Selenium, Iodine etc, ad hoc.
[9] Request Zuranolone (synthetic Allopregnanolone) when it becomes available, as a short-term adjunct to relieve depression, but do not depend on Zuranolone to supplant the entire protocol because it will not eliminate Functional Hypothyroidism, the perpetuator of the syndrome.

 

[Ras]

Baicalein suppresses the androgen receptor (AR)-mediated prostate cancer progression via inhibiting the AR N-C dimerization and AR-coactivators interaction​

So could be that baicalein is responsible for the decrease in DHT production. Do you have access to the full study? If someone has access to the full study please let us know.


Second stuyd: Effects of a co-micronized composite containing palmitoylethanolamide and polydatin in an experimental model of benign prostatic hyperplasia (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

Abstract​

Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA), a fatty acid amide-signaling molecule has well-known anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective effects. Nevertheless, PEA does not possess the ability to prevent free radicals formation. Polydatin (PLD), a biological precursor of resveratrol, has antioxidant activity. A combination of PEA and PLD could, conceivably, have beneficial effects on oxidative stress produced by inflammatory processes. In the present study we investigated the effects of a co-micronized composite containing PEA and PLD (m(PEA/PLD)) in a model of testosterone-induced benign hyperplasia (BPH). BPH was provoked in rats by daily administration of testosterone propionate (3 mg/kg) for 14 days. This protocol leads to alterations in prostate morphology and increased levels of prostaglandin E2 and dihydrotestosterone as well as of 5α-reductase 1 and 5α-reductase 2 expression. Moreover, testosterone induced marked inflammation in terms of an increase in nuclear translocation of nuclear factor-κB p65 and consequently in IκB-α degradation as well as disregulation of inducible nitric oxide synthase, cyclooxygenase-2 and manganese superoxide dismutase expression and in the apoptosis pathway. Our results show, for the first time, that m(PEA/PLD) is capable of decreasing prostate weight and dihydrotestosterone production in BPH-induced rats. These effects were most likely correlated to the anti-inflammatory and apoptotic effects of m(PEA/PLD).

Can't find a lot about the other substance's (Polydatin) anti androgenic properties though. Do you have access to the full study?

The full Baicalein study is the first link of a Google search of the study's title: Baicalein suppresses the androgen receptor (AR)-mediated prostate cancer progression via inhibiting the AR N-C dimerization and AR-coactivators interaction

The second study's full text is available through Sci-Hub: https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/J.TAAP.2017.06.005

 

[Mister]

The full Baicalein study is the first link of a Google search of the study's title: Baicalein suppresses the androgen receptor (AR)-mediated prostate cancer progression via inhibiting the AR N-C dimerization and AR-coactivators interaction

The second study's full text is available through Sci-Hub: https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/J.TAAP.2017.06.005

Thanks for the second one but you have this one?: Palmitoylethanolamide/Baicalein Regulates the Androgen Receptor Signaling and NF-κB/Nrf2 Pathways in Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia - PubMed

Edit; also can't open the sci hub link.

 

[Ras]

Thanks for the second one but you have this one?: Palmitoylethanolamide/Baicalein Regulates the Androgen Receptor Signaling and NF-κB/Nrf2 Pathways in Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia - PubMed

Edit; also can't open the sci hub link.

No offense intended, but did you try to find the full text? The link to the full text is in the abstract link you posted.

Palmitoylethanolamide/Baicalein Regulates the Androgen Receptor Signaling and NF-κB/Nrf2 Pathways in Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia

Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is the most common benign tumor in males. Androgen/androgen receptor (AR) signaling plays a key role in the development of BPH; its alterations cause an imbalance between prostate cell growth and apoptosis. Furthermore, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mister]

No offense intended, but did you try to find the full text? The link to the full text is in the abstract link you posted.

Palmitoylethanolamide/Baicalein Regulates the Androgen Receptor Signaling and NF-κB/Nrf2 Pathways in Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia

Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is the most common benign tumor in males. Androgen/androgen receptor (AR) signaling plays a key role in the development of BPH; its alterations cause an imbalance between prostate cell growth and apoptosis. Furthermore, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Looked over it. And what do you think, is PEA anti androgenic?

 

[Ras]

Looked over it. And what do you think, is PEA anti androgenic?

I haven't researched it.

 

[A5510]

Good opinion piece about PFS from urologist: FINASTERIDE and DEPRESSION

What he suggests as therapy:

Suggested Management, side effects, Prognosis and Follow-up​

Management: Stop taking Finasteride and contact a Metabolic Medicine or Functional Medicine MD – present a copy of this article and discuss these suggestions:
[1] Correct Allopregnenolone deficiency with Pregnenolone and Progesterone (50 – 100 mg each), at bedtime.
[2] Take Melatonin, 10 mg at bedtime, as an adjunct to Allopregnenolone, to improve sleep, mood and anxiety and to act as an antioxidant.
[3] Take DHEA, 50 mg, daily (no more than 50mg /day, so as to avoid aromatisation to Oestrogen): note that >50mg may raise Oestrogen to female levels, producing gynecomastia and occasionally, painful breast cysts.
[4] Test HS CRP, Homcysteine, IGF, Heavy Metals and other markers and treat ad hoc.
[5] Correct intracellular hypothyroidism with a slow-release formulation of Triiodothyronine (AKA Liothyronine), titrated upward from 10mcg daily in 5mcg increments, to achieve a T3 level between 5.0 and 6.2 Picomoles/Litre:
Do not take desiccated thyroid, because 70% of DT is T4 and in intracellular hypothyroidism, T4 is processed preferentially to rT3.
DO NOT TAKE Eltroxin or Synthroid, for the same reason.
[6] Test for T3 weekly, at 4 hours post-dose (Ideal dose time 4AM): maintain the dose at the current level, when a serum FreeT3 of 5.0 – 6.2 Pmol per litre is achieved.
Note that since T3’s half-life is only 2-3 hours, there is no need to wait six weeks for re-testing, as is done for T4, whose half-life is 5 – 7 days.
[7] Re-test for rT3, T4 and TSH when the serum T3 is > 5.0 Pm/L.
[8] Take Vit D, B12, MTHF, NAC, CoQ10, I-3C, Zinc, Iron, Magnesium, Selenium, Iodine etc, ad hoc.
[9] Request Zuranolone (synthetic Allopregnanolone) when it becomes available, as a short-term adjunct to relieve depression, but do not depend on Zuranolone to supplant the entire protocol because it will not eliminate Functional Hypothyroidism, the perpetuator of the syndrome.

AlloP - Liquid Allopregnanolone For Lab/R&D

Just a quick announcement that we have replaced the 5α-DHP in our store with allopregnanolone. The main reason for switching over to allopregnanolone is that we always wanted to provide that steroid right from the start, however we could not find a lab willing to synthesize it. Thus, 5α-DHP...

raypeatforum.com

What's wrong with the AlloP Rap Peat Forum user 'haidut' provides?

 

[A5510]

dr peat said antibodies formed around damaged tissue, may be the damaged androgen 'receptors' in this case, body reacts to those with anti-bodies and you get autoimmune symptoms from those that look like they are the cause, while it's not.


The renin angiotensin aldosterone parathyroidhormone system needs to be controlled said dr Peat. I think because it governs the expressions and flow of the youthhormones there carier SHBG independant from the androgen receptor

vitamin D, calcium, candesartan aldosterone blocker, fix gut problems take bacillus subtilis and cyproheptadine, reduce serotonin, improve thyroid.

There is currently zero evidence for a drug permanently reducing the function of/rendering useless the androgen receptor else Big Pharma would be all over it as it's well recognised that AR activity is required for growth and survival of prostate cancer cells.

A promoting role of androgen receptor in androgen-sensitive and -insensitive prostate cancer cells

Although the vital role of the androgen receptor (AR) has been well demonstrated in primary prostate cancers, its role in the androgen-insensitive prostate cancers still remains unclear. Here, we used a small hairpin RNA approach to directly assess AR ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Big Pharma likely spends tonnes of money yearly in research for drugs for the treatment of castrate resistant prostate cancer - which is an established form of prostate cancer where it is thought the AR functions as before but this time independently from its ligands such as DHT and testosterone.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_url?url=https://www.academia.edu/download/65635309/j.eururo.2009.06.02720210208-12456-8x4xvs.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Dpe8Y_nPBY6yyAS9hoto&scisig=AAGBfm1gLlYArhF2Wk1PHilTFTmI5spncw&oi=scholarr&ved=2ahUKEwiuzqG_xrv8AhXKglwKHdeiCR8QgAN6BAgHEAE&usg=AOvVaw3XwvrpjPD1H6l4vebA9reZ

Maybe we should wait and when it's revealed we're resistant to/we have lower risk for prostate cancer, have Big Pharma scientists study our androgen receptors w.r.t healthy controls - haha.

 

[Mister]

New recovery from Vanguard/hackstasis

 

[Mister]

This is what Hans had to say about PEA bein anti androgenic or not and the studies posted here:

 

[GenericName86]

This is what Hans had to say about PEA bein anti androgenic or not and the studies posted here:

Thanks for posting. I've finished experimenting with other stuff at the moment and it's been a few weeks so might be a good baseline to try PEA again, though might try different brand.

 

[Prosper127]

ay was from right after I woke up and the neuropathy was excruciating and I had bad anxiety and haven’t been able to sleep. Today I’m much much better, but I still do fear that I could die from this, but I’m more hopeful that even with this condition I could try and ma

Extreme fatigue
Weight loss
Flat muscles
No pump
No will to do anything even to pursue women
Memory loss
No feelings of joy or sadness
No appetite


Transdermal DHEA and eating 500g liver every week greatly alleviate most symptoms.

Hello Santosh, which brand of DHEA and is it available without script ?

 

[Santosh]

Hello Santosh, which brand of DHEA and is it available without script ?

PureBulk