Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[Matestube]

You can do a simple PCT with Clomid or Enclomiphene Citrate. I think everyone knows that :). And no one can be sure about the results, you actually just try it out and see if it works. I guess you are new into this xD it gets normal after a while...

I've actually been studying endocrinology and hormones for the best part of the last 10 years, as well as trying them on myself.
For one, both anecdotal evidence and studies show that PCT ancilliaries have little to no benefit over "just waiting it out" as far as hpta and testicular function recoveries are concerned secondary to AAS use.
Secondly, you can try all the PCT you want after a few doses of Tren or Trest, you most likely will need around 9 months to recover, and no amount of HCG, clomiphene or enclomiphene will speed up the process.
Lots of bodybuilders have burnt their testicules trying those drugs, hence the more and more popular blast&cruise strategy.

 

[ValeryZeSpanich]

I've actually been studying endocrinology and hormones for the best part of the last 10 years, as well as trying them on myself.
For one, both anecdotal evidence and studies show that PCT ancilliaries have little to no benefit over "just waiting it out" as far as hpta and testicular function recoveries are concerned secondary to AAS use.
Secondly, you can try all the PCT you want after a few doses of Tren or Trest, you most likely will need around 9 months to recover, and no amount of HCG, clomiphene or enclomiphene will speed up the process.
Lots of bodybuilders have burnt their testicules trying those drugs, hence the more and more popular blast&cruise strategy.

I didn't think to ask you in private, but what mechanism makes trenbolone (among other things) dangerous for the integrity of Leydig cells than testosterone?

 

[Matestube]

I didn't think to ask you in private, but what mechanism makes trenbolone (among other things) dangerous for the integrity of Leydig cells than testosterone?

Never heard or read that it was dangerous for Leydig cells.
That's at least not the mechanism through which it shuts down the HPTA.

 

[CloudsInTheHead]

Anyone end up getting covid? I caught it last week, and while the acute phase only lasted a couple days, my fatigue has been debilitating this week. I'm not sure if that tells us anything about PFS.

 

[ValeryZeSpanich]

Never heard or read that it was dangerous for Leydig cells.
That's at least not the mechanism through which it shuts down the HPTA.

The expression "grilled their balls" misled me.
I mean, what biochemical mechanisms make for example nandrolone or its derivatives more suppressive than testosterone, is there something more than the decrease in LH/FSH and the decrease in downstream hormones to explain a such difference ?
I know a bit about the pharmacology of these steroids but I haven't found much relevant.

 

[Matestube]

The expression "grilled their balls" misled me.
I mean, what biochemical mechanisms make for example nandrolone or its derivatives more suppressive than testosterone, is there something more than the decrease in LH/FSH and the decrease in downstream hormones to explain a such difference ?
I know a bit about the pharmacology of these steroids but I haven't found much relevant.

Synthetic progestogens and androgens remaining attached much longer and stronger to the hypothalamus hormone receptors than testosterone.

 

[FinVictim]

Synthetic progestogens and androgens remaining attached much longer and stronger to the hypothalamus hormone receptors than testosterone.

Interesting, do you have any scientific reference?

 

[Matestube]

Interesting, do you have any scientific reference?

A quick NCBI search with the keywords "19 nor hpta" brought me plenty.

 

[Raltox]

Is anyone else getting burned by the "nationwide shortage" of HCG? I got a prescription from my urologist, but it's on backorder at the pharmacy. I've been waiting a month now.

 

[CloudsInTheHead]

Is anyone else getting burned by the "nationwide shortage" of HCG? I got a prescription from my urologist, but it's on backorder at the pharmacy. I've been waiting a month now.

What was your urologist's rationale for prescribing HCG? Is your LH/T fairly low? I'm curious if most of these doctors see this as LH or if they think it will do something extra.

 

[FinVictim]

A quick NCBI search with the keywords "19 nor hpta" brought me plenty.

I don't for some reason. Can you link a few here?

 

[wildworld1992]

I don't for some reason. Can you link a few here?

Nandrolone and the HPTA | Mechanism of Suppression

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[iLikeTrains97]

Hi. I'm Patrick and I quit fin 4 months ago. At first my main problem was libido and ed and feeling anxious. Now my libido and ed has deteriorated and is zero, sometimes I get an erection during a situation with a girl. The biggest problem is the feeling of anxiety, meaninglessness, anhedonia and general lack of needs. One month after withdrawal my testosterone was almost 700 now it has dropped to 300. Sometimes I get morning erections but they disappear quickly. After my symptoms worsened I decided to jump on the HCG protocol. So far I've had 6 injections and the only thing I've noticed is slightly stronger orgasms but I didn't have a problem with that before as well as my penis sensation was pretty much the same. My progesterone is 4x above normal and I feel like it is blocking dht. I don't know how to deal with this.

I am inserting my blood results below:

Testosterone: (2,8-8,0)
27.01: 6,29
20.04: 3,26 !!!!!!

Free testosterone: (1,00-28,28)
31.01: 6,22!!!

Estradiol: (7,63-42.6)
27.01: 38,51
20.04: 18.61

LH: (1,7-8,6)
27.01: 7,06
20.04: 2,89 !!!!!

FSH: (1,50-12,40)
27.01: 3,90
20.04: 4,67

Progesterone: (<0,05-0,149)
27.01: 0,21!!!!
20.04: 0,58!!!!!

TSH: (0.27-4,2)
31.01: 0,339
20.04: 2.84 [I have hashimoto].

Prolactin (4.04-15.20)
27.01: 11,96
20.04: 8,91

Albumin (3.5-5)
20.04: 5,15

DHEA-SO4- Little above range

SHBG- Normal range

 

[Raltox]

What was your urologist's rationale for prescribing HCG? Is your LH/T fairly low? I'm curious if most of these doctors see this as LH or if they think it will do something extra.

Simply because I said that some people had seen improvements and recoveries on it, and I wanted to try it. My testosterone is fine. My LH might be on the low side as I posted here. Actually, it would be great if you or anyone could tell me whether that's low enough that it might make a difference.

Still, it was discussed much earlier in the thread that blood work is not a great predictor for how someone will respond to HCG treatment.

 

[CloudsInTheHead]

Simply because I said that some people had seen improvements and recoveries on it, and I wanted to try it. My testosterone is fine. My LH might be on the low side as I posted here. Actually, it would be great if you or anyone could tell me whether that's low enough that it might make a difference.

Still, it was discussed much earlier in the thread that blood work is not a great predictor for how someone will respond to HCG treatment.

You seem like a good candidate for HCG since your LH is a bit on the low end. I'm interested in giving it a shot too, but I know my LH is in the upper end of the range, so I'm not sure if anyone would prescribe it for me.

 

[Raltox]

You seem like a good candidate for HCG since your LH is a bit on the low end. I'm interested in giving it a shot too, but I know my LH is in the upper end of the range, so I'm not sure if anyone would prescribe it for me.

For whatever it's worth, my urologist didn't mention anything about my LH before agreeing to HCG -- just that we'd have to monitor my estrogen once I start.

 

[CloudsInTheHead]

For whatever it's worth, my urologist didn't mention anything about my LH before agreeing to HCG -- just that we'd have to monitor my estrogen once I start.

Good to know. It sucks that the FDA is cracking down on the stuff. I've been mostly avoiding doctors since they're usually not very helpful for PFS suffers, but I guess I better start looking for a sympathetic endo.

 

[Raltox]

Good to know. It sucks that the FDA is cracking down on the stuff. I've been mostly avoiding doctors since they're usually not very helpful for PFS suffers, but I guess I better start looking for a sympathetic endo.

There are for sure a lot of unhelpful doctors out there who don't believe PFS patients, but in my experience, finding a sympathetic + knowledgeable doctor or two is invaluable. Depending on where you live, you may be able to find someone off this list: Patient Health Support - The Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation

 

[CloudsInTheHead]

There are for sure a lot of unhelpful doctors out there who don't believe PFS patients, but in my experience, finding a sympathetic + knowledgeable doctor or two is invaluable. Depending on where you live, you may be able to find someone off this list: Patient Health Support - The Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation

I think I'll make a real effort to find one this year, because I'm getting really tired of ordering and interpreting these tests myself and buying possibly counterfeit pharmaceuticals from Asia.

It's funny, the endocrinologist I spoke to didn't dismiss my PFS concerns. He just said he would have talked me out of taking the drug if he'd had the opportunity, and that he couldn't help at this point. Idk if that's better or worse lol...

 

[Mister]

Interesting bit I read in this study;

The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study) - PubMed

Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study)​

"Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels."


Reminds me of a guy who recovered in the big pfs whatsapp group. He recovered with one or a couple of proviron pills (25mg) but he had a (very) high base test level.

Also other PFS recoveries mentioned proviron (and other DHT derivatives) did nothing by itself but did when adding test. Also another recovery with proviron, he did HCG prior to doing proviron, the HCG probably increased his test levels.

Anyway just theorizing here.