Felt like i was going to die.

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:mrgreen: I think your adrenaline and thyroid just need to lower a little bit (I swear there's a quote somewhere but I cannot find it). Remember darkness raises TSH and adrenaline. Ray Peat looks very warm in that video, I bet he always does!
 

kookaburra

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Such_Saturation said:
:mrgreen: I think your adrenaline and thyroid just need to lower a little bit (I swear there's a quote somewhere but I cannot find it). Remember darkness raises TSH and adrenaline. Ray Peat looks very warm in that video, I bet he always does!

Good point. I spent a few hours outside and took a big whack of glycine and now I almost feel normal. Things tend to get worse at night so I'll spend some time under the old red light before bed and see how that goes.

Peater, how you feeling bud?
 

marcar72

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I've had a couple short panic attacks within the last couple of months as well. First time I've ever had a panic attack. Both times happened as I was falling asleep. On the first one I came very close to calling an ambulance, but by the time I had got my wits together and my phone in my hand I realized that I hadn't collapsed yet... so maybe it was one of those panic attacks people talk about. Talk about sheer terror during the first one, jeesh. The second one I realized what was happening (panic attack) and my reaction wasn't nearly as life/death like.

I had chalked them up personally to this chronic recurring ear infection I've had for Lord knows how long. It had flared up somewhat acute in early July and that's when I realized it. I finally went to Priority Care and they got me a referral to see a NP who specializes in ENT I guess on 09/05.

As a side note that somewhat ties into this, but I'm not sure it's related to my initial panic attacks. I had procured some LSD and tripped twice within a few days of each other. Tripping is pretty edgy, always has been for me. Well the 1st trip was for the most part fine on 2 hits. The 2nd trip was borderline bad trip if not indeed a bad trip with just 1 hit which struck me as odd. It lasted forever and was for the most part very uncomfortable.

Well for about a week after that 2nd trip I was extremely angst out. Not so much at home but my stress and angst got so bad at work that I nearly had to go home. I'm in a much better frame of mind now thank God!

What I think happened with those trips is I feel that the LSD cleared up most of my serotonin to the point that I was in somewhat of a Serotonin Syndrome state for that week to 10 days later. I don't really know though but those are the conclusions I came to personally.

Maybe some of us are a little too Serotonin deficient, to the point that it's causing some sort of anxiety storm? Or maybe it is that T3-receptor thing clearing out that's sending us into a short thyroid storm. Who knows, glad I read through this thread though as I can definately relate. :2cents
 

tara

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I don't have much of an understanding of hyperthyroid issues, so if that's what is going on the following may not be relevant. And I'm not an expert - just my thoughts from my current beginner's view.

From what I've read outside of Peat's ideas, I thought panic attacks were often a direct result of hypocapnea (CO2 too low). Nothing I've read from Peat seems to contradict this.
PeaterPan said:
made me breathe inside a thing for CO2 which didn't work or at least it worked for 20 minutes but then stopped
Not quite sure what you mean here. Do you mean you were continuously inhaling slightly increased CO2 and it helped at first but then stopped helping?
Or you breathed slightly higher CO2 for a minute or two, and it helped but wore off after 20 mins? If the latter, then you could try bag-breathing for a minute every time it seems to come back, or some other method for increasing retained CO2. If bag-breathing helps even short term, that's a good clue. If so, you could learn and practice breathing exercises to reduce chronic hyperventilation. There are related threads on CO2 here. If this is the issue, then either producing more CO2 or exhaling less of it should be helpful. If your alkaline mineral (calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium) stores and/or intake are low, I think that can contribute to hyperventilation. If you bumped up your sugar intake without corresponding minerals, that could be part of the problem? I test UpH occasionally to help guide this - aiming to be just slightly acid (6.4-6.8). I think if the body starts to get dangerously acid it hyperventilates to compensate. I wonder if other nutrients could be limiting energy production and causing a crash. Could it be that you revved up metabolism, burned through all your other nutrients much faster than usual, and crashed when something else suddenly ran too low? It makes sense to me that red light would help.

marcar72 said:
What I think happened with those trips is I feel that the LSD cleared up most of my serotonin to the point that I was in somewhat of a Serotonin Syndrome state for that week to 10 days later. I don't really know though but those are the conclusions I came to personally.

Maybe some of us are a little too Serotonin deficient, to the point that it's causing some sort of anxiety storm? Or maybe it is that T3-receptor thing clearing out that's sending us into a short thyroid storm. Who knows, glad I read through this thread though as I can definately relate.
I think Serotonin Syndrome usually refers to the effects of too much serotonin, not too little, and is very dangerous. I would have thought it would be unlikely to result from LSD (not that I've tried it). Maybe there can be other problems that can arise with too little serotonin, but if so it seems to be a less common problem, and I don't know what it would look like (since I don't believe the SSRI ads).

marcar72 said:
I had chalked them up personally to this chronic recurring ear infection I've had for Lord knows how long. It had flared up somewhat acute in early July and that's when I realized it. I finally went to Priority Care and they got me a referral to see a NP who specializes in ENT I guess on 09/05.
After reading recent discussion of activated charcoal (AC) on other threads, I came across reports of ear infections being helped activated charcoal. Seems like a low-risk intervention worth trying - biggest risk seems to be blackened pillow case, if you don't protect it. Search WWW for 'activated charcoal ear infection' for a couple of topical methods.
 

Green

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Hourly cups of sugar and salted milk warmed me up, but from adrenaline. Unfortunately it raised stress instead of lowering it.
 

kookaburra

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kookaburra said:
Such_Saturation said:
Yes I got that for a week (not this bad though) and enjoyed it enough. For years I had that hard beat in my chest after meals so the gland can shine through the garbage every now and then. Anyway you will wish you were that warm for around six months after this. Try gelatin and sun and take enough salt but dissolve it well before you drink it!

<<Apparently the metabolic surges that happened at first were an indication that my body was compensating for an anti-thyroid substance by producing more thyroid hormone; when the coconut oil relieved the inhibition, I experienced a moment of slight hyperthyroidism, but after a time the inhibitor became less effective, and my body adjusted by producing slightly less thyroid hormone.>> - Ray Peat

Bingo! I thought I had read that somewhere. Something to do with RT3 maybe?

Sun helps a lot actually. I'm noticing that the symptoms get worse as I traverse from one temperature zone to the next. E.g. outoors -> indoors -> air conditioning and back again.

Peat doesn't talk a lot about RT3 explicitly but I definitely think it could be what's going on here... could be the "antithyroid" substance he was talking about. I don't know about anyone else, but I think it's possible I was flirting with myxedemic coma :(

Resistance to T3 can be caused by high cortisol and b12 deficiency. I have both of those... I'm feeling a bit better today so I may wait it out to see if the T4 from the cynoplus and the possible RT3 in my body lower over the next week or so. I have T3 on hand if I feel like I'm about to lose consciousness..
 

marcar72

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tara said:
I think Serotonin Syndrome usually refers to the effects of too much serotonin, not too little, and is very dangerous...

Yes I meant deficiency and not Serotonin Syndrome, my bad. I got the two confused.
 
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PeaterPan

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I'm feeling good kookabuurra thanks.

Tara, bag breathing was only making thing worse at first, so short term it didn't do jack ***t.


I restarted eating my starch with sugar, i think gut bacteria play a huge role in mental health.

I made this decision by seeing this video:

[BBvideo 560,340:2wvn0vsr]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdLHWFJI2y0[/BBvideo]

Yesterday i took a little lexotan to fall asleep.

This is Ray Peat, someone that has mastered the art of sugars and looks very nervous for a professor that should be used to teaching. If he is nervous/hyperexcited after all these years of Peating, there's no surprise that i may have strong panic attacks. For now i'll just lay down on sugar and increase my starch.

And it wasn't a protein deficiency(3 liters of milk, which also has a lot of b12) nor a vitamin deficiency as i was taking multivitamins and eating nutrient dense foods at night eggs + liver.


EDIT UPDATE: By the way since reasuming eating stach my blood pressure went down from 150 100 with 90-100 bpm to:
130-135 and 72-75, beats per minutes 75-78. I'll see what happens next. For now i'm feeling better.
 
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PeaterPan

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I know, the thing is that i never had panic attacks before, never, so there's a high chance that this is a physiological issue rather than psychological(even though both affect each other), these past 6 days i completely restricted starch and fiber, 0, nada, now i'm just restarting to eat fiber and starch and i feel a lot lot lot better.
But i don't think sugar is incompatible with heath, hell, i think it's extremely beneficial it feed my body instead of my bacteria, and i had many positives on it( i swear that my wisdom teeth moved realigning with others, teeth remineralized a little and started being firm + lost fat), but i think that fiber is a must too, those little bastards in my gut produce something that is necessary to me or when they starve they start being bad guys and eating me.

So i think it's important to find the best way to cooexist with them, by feeding them some soluble fiber every day.

And i'm a work in progress, i'm making mistakes and correcting them, plus right now i'm being in my bed relaxing recoverimg from my past nightmerish days and have a lot of time.
 
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Carrots feed them quite well (it seems). Guys, you can settle for what doctors say today but you'll still have to fight with them in twenty years from now, when they will be advocating "Peatish" stuff. Red pill is the other option. I advise not to miss this train.
 
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PeaterPan

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I'm eating carrots and i'll take some yogurt to repopulate my gut a little
 

kookaburra

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Oh even now I'm still pretty committed to peating :)

I can't find the quote but he does mention that T4 can be anti-thyroid for some people.. and that he knew a woman who's doctor kept upping her T4 and eventually put her in a coma, only to be revived with intravenous T3. The RT3 group says that high cortisol can cause people to convert T4 to reverse T3, which can exacerbate hypothyroidism and even lead to myxedemic coma... I think that's what's going on with me now, taking T4 (even the low dose I was on) and other thyrogenic substances was like throwing gas on the fire.. I had normal thyroid function but I had hypo symptoms because I wasn't converting to T3 properly. Now I have brain fog, confusion, slow digestion, fatigue and I'm super adrenal, pretty jumpy.

Temps are pretty low now, so I know I'm not hyper. I think adrenaline raised my temps a few days ago.

At the moment I'm eating teensy bits of cynomel T3 throughout the day and eating carrot salad and cascara to keep my intestines from stalling. I'm hoping that the T4 from the cynoplus will be out of my system in a week or two and I'll get back to normal. In the meantime I'm just relaxing as best I can. I didn't go into a coma on saturday so that's good news.

Anyone else been in this situation?
 

kookaburra

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Should I start my own thread? Peater, I'm not sure we are in fact going through the same thing here.
 
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PeaterPan

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kookaburra said:
Should I start my own thread? Peater, I'm not sure we are in fact going through the same thing here.

Well if you ate a low fat diet, lots of milk, lots of sugar, no starch and no fiber and you had the same symptoms as me i guess we went through the same thing.
I felt like dying 2 times in 1 day(difficulty breathing, hearts rate very high, blood pressure high) , the rest of the day i felt extremely tired.

Now i'm recovering a little with carrots, starch, i'll take some yogurt, i'm trying to repopulate my gut.
 
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PeaterPan said:
kookaburra said:
Should I start my own thread? Peater, I'm not sure we are in fact going through the same thing here.

Well if you ate a low fat diet, lots of milk, lots of sugar, no starch and no fiber and you had the same symptoms as me i guess we went through the same thing.
I felt like dying 2 times in 1 day(difficulty breathing, hearts rate very high, blood pressure high) , the rest of the day i felt extremely tired.

Now i'm recovering a little with carrots, starch, i'll take some yogurt, i'm trying to repopulate my gut.

Why yogurt? Do you know the strains used? It makes me quite slow personally.
 
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PeaterPan

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Such_Saturation said:
PeaterPan said:
kookaburra said:
Should I start my own thread? Peater, I'm not sure we are in fact going through the same thing here.

Well if you ate a low fat diet, lots of milk, lots of sugar, no starch and no fiber and you had the same symptoms as me i guess we went through the same thing.
I felt like dying 2 times in 1 day(difficulty breathing, hearts rate very high, blood pressure high) , the rest of the day i felt extremely tired.

Now i'm recovering a little with carrots, starch, i'll take some yogurt, i'm trying to repopulate my gut.

Why yogurt? Do you know the strains used? It makes me quite slow personally.

Bifidus something, making me a little slower is the best thing for now, but it's only a temporary solution to repopulate my gut. Tomorrow i'll try to ferment some carrots.
This shouldn't cause trouble as sugar doesn't feed them and when my gut is alive again i'll just have to feed them once in a while to make them happy.

My personal guess right now is that i starved them for 6 days and they started causing trouble, by eating 0 fiber 0 starch.
Hope i'm right.
 
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PeaterPan said:
Such_Saturation said:
PeaterPan said:
kookaburra said:
Should I start my own thread? Peater, I'm not sure we are in fact going through the same thing here.

Well if you ate a low fat diet, lots of milk, lots of sugar, no starch and no fiber and you had the same symptoms as me i guess we went through the same thing.
I felt like dying 2 times in 1 day(difficulty breathing, hearts rate very high, blood pressure high) , the rest of the day i felt extremely tired.

Now i'm recovering a little with carrots, starch, i'll take some yogurt, i'm trying to repopulate my gut.

Why yogurt? Do you know the strains used? It makes me quite slow personally.

Bifidus something, making me a little slower is the best thing for now, but it's only a temporary solution to repopulate my gut. Tomorrow i'll try to ferment some carrots.
This shouldn't cause trouble as sugar doesn't feed them and when my gut is alive again i'll just have to feed them once in a while to make them happy.

My personal guess right now is that i starved them for 6 days and they started causing trouble, by eating 0 fiber 0 starch.
Hope i'm right.

The point of carrots is getting them to the colon intact, technically. I wouldn't play around with gut flora too much but it would be interesting to have means to investigate it. Even a simple steak from an industrial cow can mess you up. Seems like some kinds of Bifidus might be a good choice but I believe whatever flora healthy babies have is optimal.
 

tara

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PeaterPan said:
I went home i tried to take a magnesium pill which didn't work, then i ate a banana thinking it was potassium, didn't work and got worse,then i thought it was water didn't work and got worse, then finally i ate salt, god bless salt it saved me, i'll eat some more salt and go to sleep ...
PeaterPan said:
Tara, bag breathing was only making thing worse at first, so short term it didn't do jack s***.
...
And it wasn't a protein deficiency(3 liters of milk, which also has a lot of b12) nor a vitamin deficiency as i was taking multivitamins and eating nutrient dense foods at night eggs + liver.
...
For now i'm feeling better.

Glad you're feeling better. It sounded scary.
If bag-breathing makes you feel worse, that might be a clue about mineral balance and pH. How have your intakes of calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium been over the last few weeks? 3l milk has a reasonable amount of calcium - is that a recent addition? Magnesium tablets are not always well-absorbed. If you are in deficit, I think it can take a while for buffers to rebuild. Don't know if these are relevant factors, but maybe worth considering.
 
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PeaterPan

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Such_Saturation said:
PeaterPan said:
Such_Saturation said:
PeaterPan said:
kookaburra said:
Should I start my own thread? Peater, I'm not sure we are in fact going through the same thing here.

Well if you ate a low fat diet, lots of milk, lots of sugar, no starch and no fiber and you had the same symptoms as me i guess we went through the same thing.
I felt like dying 2 times in 1 day(difficulty breathing, hearts rate very high, blood pressure high) , the rest of the day i felt extremely tired.

Now i'm recovering a little with carrots, starch, i'll take some yogurt, i'm trying to repopulate my gut.

Why yogurt? Do you know the strains used? It makes me quite slow personally.

Bifidus something, making me a little slower is the best thing for now, but it's only a temporary solution to repopulate my gut. Tomorrow i'll try to ferment some carrots.
This shouldn't cause trouble as sugar doesn't feed them and when my gut is alive again i'll just have to feed them once in a while to make them happy.

My personal guess right now is that i starved them for 6 days and they started causing trouble, by eating 0 fiber 0 starch.
Hope i'm right.

The point of carrots is getting them to the colon intact, technically. I wouldn't play around with gut flora too much but it would be interesting to have means to investigate it. Even a simple steak from an industrial cow can mess you up. Seems like some kinds of Bifidus might be a good choice but I believe whatever flora healthy babies have is optimal.


Yep, i was thinking about eating a baby's turd to get the healthy bacteria, i'm only half kidding :P.



Tara, I don't think i have any deficiency, milk contains a fair amout of magnesium and potassium + i added some salt to it every time and if the magnesium was not enough i was taking some magnesium pills, magnesium pills are not absorbed when they are not need or if you take a huge amount and it's not needed it gets absorbed and then pissed out, just like the calcium in milk.
 

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