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Feline Issues

astral

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
19
does anyone know about giving cats or dogs thyroid and progesterone?

how to take temperature for felines only? what is normal body temp for cats?
 

Ardina

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2012
Messages
11
For healthy dogs and cats temp is between 38 en 39 celcius.
Slight higher if they run...or if they are sick.
You can measure their temp with a normaal meter..anal.

Ardina.
 

astral

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
19
my cat is 15 years old
had been treated for carcinoma
given her progesterone by mouth near the infected area
saw some improvement but her eating has gotten worst
any ideas to improve her health would be helpful
 

Amazigh

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Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
160
Location
Earth
I just helped my cat recover from fatty liver. He had stopped eating and had to have a feeding tube put in on the side of his neck through which I had to feed him watery cat food with a srynge. The vet prescribed high-calorie canned cat food, which I'm not crazy about because of the crappy ingredients including guar gum, but I didn't know enough about cat physiology to do otherwise.

However once I saw he was responding positively, I started adding a crushed 1/4 grain dessicated thyroid tablet, gelatin, and eggshell calcium to the mix. I figured that his ailing liver could use the thyroid, and he looked like he was having hypo symptoms (cold, lethargic, depressed, antisocial, etc.). Instead of flushing the tube with water, I used coconut water. He recovered very quickly after that--in just a few days he was eating on his own again and the vet was able to remove the tube.
 

astral

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
19
Re: feline issues carcinoma

thank you for reply
where do you get egg shell powder for calcium
gave my cat 15 years old progesterone in gum (carcinoma)
she seems better each time I gave her
more energy eating better
pains meds given by vet made little difference
whew I didn't know ray peat was that famous all over the world
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
12,293
Location
USA
Astral, if you like, check out this list of countries I just posted that are accessing this site:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=802
 

astral

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
19
well thank you why are you so nice to me? do I know you?
did you know ray peat wrote about progesterone in 1972? he even wrote about virtues of coenzyme q10 before it was available in usa. I always wonder he writes under another name here does he know about this forum
every question I asked him turns out right
he even predicted Obama will win at a time when Romney came out strong from east coast polls. Romney thought he would win.. he told me coffee was a adaptogen 30 thirty years ago. I did not believe him then and now they are coming out studies about coffee for weight loss, anticancer.. his voice sounds so robotic, has nice echo tone to it.. I hoped with all my heart I will see him in Morelia for a week.. he was a giant icon along with dr. linus pauling, shute brothers, dr. kunin, dr. rees, Abram Hoffer, and so many more... went to his home in Eugene, Oregon in 1982... look at him now! he is becoming world class icon...
 

LucyL

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
1,183
roguesandy said:
Instead of flushing the tube with water, I used coconut water. He recovered very quickly after that--in just a few days he was eating on his own again and the vet was able to remove the tube.

Will your cat drink coconut water by himself?
 

Sheik

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
659
My 18yo cat is groaning a lot everyday (and irritating her roommates). She was actually hyperthyroid but she's medicated for that and is doing much better overall. I'm not sure what to do for her; something is obviously wrong. She feels cold and seems very anxious a lot of the time. She begs often, probably for tuna, which I'm not sure I should give her. A year or two ago we tried giving her lots of tuna but she went absolutely berserk, like a drug addict. Groaning loudly and constantly. Maybe she's just a junkie now, I don't know.

I suppose I could try giving her some progest-E. Some Google searching has convinced me that both progesterone and vitamin E are safe for cats.
 

Nikki

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Messages
118
My 18yo cat is groaning a lot everyday (and irritating her roommates). She was actually hyperthyroid but she's medicated for that and is doing much better overall. I'm not sure what to do for her; something is obviously wrong. She feels cold and seems very anxious a lot of the time. She begs often, probably for tuna, which I'm not sure I should give her. A year or two ago we tried giving her lots of tuna but she went absolutely berserk, like a drug addict. Groaning loudly and constantly. Maybe she's just a junkie now, I don't know.

I suppose I could try giving her some progest-E. Some Google searching has convinced me that both progesterone and vitamin E are safe for cats.
I just wanted to add a note that I used DMSO to control hyperthyroid symptoms in 2 cats. Actually, I used it to undo liver damaged caused by the thyroid suppressing medicine but it worked to lower T4 in that cat. So I nearly killed her by giving her methimazole and in trying to save her life I accidentally discovered the natural remedy for elevated T4. But a lot of damage had been done and she didn't like DMSO rubbed on her skin. When it became apparent that she would need topical application 4x/day to live, I decided that was a quality of life issue. Each time I tried to wean her to a lower concentration, she would develop cholestasis again (indicating liver inflammation). Te keep treating her meant 4 times a day she was mad at me and the rest of the day she was afraid of me because she never knew when I was going to rub fire on her belly. I wasn't brave enough to give it via injection until I met a horse vet who convinced me to go for it (with my next patient). So my next hyperthyroid cat, got DMSO inflused into her subcutaneous fluids. First I experimented with .5ml diluted in 12ml saline because at the time she did not require hydration very often and I just needed enough fluid to dilute the DMSO to less than 10%. She did not like the sensation so I figured out if I could get the amount down to about 1%, she didn't notice it. The rub- can't add it to a bag of fluids, which would be the easiest way to administer it SC. So I just slowly injected it through the injection port nearest the needle. I am not suggesting this is a cure, all I can say is for my cat, it stopped the "tweaker" behavior- the incessant yowling, wanting to play constantly, being hungry but nauseated (it completely stopped vomiting but if I missed a day or two she vomited so I know beyond a doubt the DMSO was controlling this.
So here's the thing I worry about. If we lower T4 are we increasing risk of cancer? The one cat developed cancer while on the DMSO to lower T4. Her T4 never went into the low range as far as I could tell it stayed in the mid to high normal range. A lot of clinics use DMSO to treat cancer, but I don't know if any use it exclusively. I wonder what Ray would say about it. I wonder if these cats aren't becoming hyperthyroid in response to a cancer (or other metabolic disease) risk.

I think hyperthyroidism is created as a way to increase blood flow through compromised kidneys. Renal disease which will be masked by rising T4 levels as this creates more rapid flow through less efficient kidneys. When the T4 is lowered via drugs, often the renal sufficiency is less and kidney disease can become the greater issue (what they call "walking the tapezole tightrope"). Some disagree and say the two conditions are unrelated. Others say that the elevated T4 causes the kidneys to become damaged. To me that makes less sense. The great majority of cats are vaccinated with distemper vaccine which was "proven" to cause autoimmune renal disease because it contains renal cells or cell fragments (the virus was cultured on feline kidney cells). Most cats suffer from kidney damage early in life but it doesn't become apparent via blood tests until they are 10-15 years old- when the majority of the kidney is dysfunctional. I find it hard to believe that elevated T4 which occurs almost exclusively in senior cats is the cause of the renal disease that is bound to occur in most vaccinated cats. (I could be wrong, this is just my gut feeling mixed with what I think is logic).

So how do we prevent renal failure in vaccinated cats? That is the question. How do we stop autoimmunity?

????
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
it stopped the "tweaker" behavior- the incessant yowling, wanting to play constantly, being hungry but nauseated

I just added baking soda to the water and it stopped this...
 

Sheik

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
659
I just wanted to add a note that I used DMSO to control hyperthyroid symptoms in 2 cats. Actually, I used it to undo liver damaged caused by the thyroid suppressing medicine but it worked to lower T4 in that cat. So I nearly killed her by giving her methimazole and in trying to save her life I accidentally discovered the natural remedy for elevated T4. But a lot of damage had been done and she didn't like DMSO rubbed on her skin. When it became apparent that she would need topical application 4x/day to live, I decided that was a quality of life issue. Each time I tried to wean her to a lower concentration, she would develop cholestasis again (indicating liver inflammation). Te keep treating her meant 4 times a day she was mad at me and the rest of the day she was afraid of me because she never knew when I was going to rub fire on her belly. I wasn't brave enough to give it via injection until I met a horse vet who convinced me to go for it (with my next patient). So my next hyperthyroid cat, got DMSO inflused into her subcutaneous fluids. First I experimented with .5ml diluted in 12ml saline because at the time she did not require hydration very often and I just needed enough fluid to dilute the DMSO to less than 10%. She did not like the sensation so I figured out if I could get the amount down to about 1%, she didn't notice it. The rub- can't add it to a bag of fluids, which would be the easiest way to administer it SC. So I just slowly injected it through the injection port nearest the needle. I am not suggesting this is a cure, all I can say is for my cat, it stopped the "tweaker" behavior- the incessant yowling, wanting to play constantly, being hungry but nauseated (it completely stopped vomiting but if I missed a day or two she vomited so I know beyond a doubt the DMSO was controlling this.
So here's the thing I worry about. If we lower T4 are we increasing risk of cancer? The one cat developed cancer while on the DMSO to lower T4. Her T4 never went into the low range as far as I could tell it stayed in the mid to high normal range. A lot of clinics use DMSO to treat cancer, but I don't know if any use it exclusively. I wonder what Ray would say about it. I wonder if these cats aren't becoming hyperthyroid in response to a cancer (or other metabolic disease) risk.

I think hyperthyroidism is created as a way to increase blood flow through compromised kidneys. Renal disease which will be masked by rising T4 levels as this creates more rapid flow through less efficient kidneys. When the T4 is lowered via drugs, often the renal sufficiency is less and kidney disease can become the greater issue (what they call "walking the tapezole tightrope"). Some disagree and say the two conditions are unrelated. Others say that the elevated T4 causes the kidneys to become damaged. To me that makes less sense. The great majority of cats are vaccinated with distemper vaccine which was "proven" to cause autoimmune renal disease because it contains renal cells or cell fragments (the virus was cultured on feline kidney cells). Most cats suffer from kidney damage early in life but it doesn't become apparent via blood tests until they are 10-15 years old- when the majority of the kidney is dysfunctional. I find it hard to believe that elevated T4 which occurs almost exclusively in senior cats is the cause of the renal disease that is bound to occur in most vaccinated cats. (I could be wrong, this is just my gut feeling mixed with what I think is logic).

So how do we prevent renal failure in vaccinated cats? That is the question. How do we stop autoimmunity?

????
Thanks, I'll think about subcutaneous DMSO. She's not a very trusting cat so I'm not sure yet how I would do it.

I just added baking soda to the water and it stopped this...
Thanks, I'll try this. How much is a good amount to add?
 
Joined
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Messages
7,367
Thanks, I'll think about subcutaneous DMSO. She's not a very trusting cat so I'm not sure yet how I would do it.


Thanks, I'll try this. How much is a good amount to add?

I put one big teaspoon in a normal sized bowl.

Cat is also not picky about water anymore (has been for all life). I guess they need to taste salt to know it's water...

Also I switched to a better brand of food and stopped dry food entirely. None of these things by themselves really have a dramatic effect (apart from baking soda) but they click together.
 

yerrag

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Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
9,489
Location
Manila
My cat has hyperesthesia. I think because of that he is squeamish, like when another cat wants to play and he just gets irritated. If I could fix his hyperesthesia, he would be more playful with other cats. His back is sensitive to touch, and there would be times he would scratch his back and a wound results. He is part Siamese and it's said that many Siamese are like that. Searching for answers, I couldn't find any on the web. The answer I get is that it's hereditary.

Hoping something Peaty can be used to explain his situation.
 

BobbyDukes

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
345
My cat likes ice cream, but hates milk.

She's also moved herself in to my neighbours apartment. So I'm now sharing her apparantly.
 

Nikki

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Messages
118
Thanks, I'll think about subcutaneous DMSO. She's not a very trusting cat so I'm not sure yet how I would do it.


Thanks, I'll try this. How much is a good amount to add?

My cats take it in their food. Just 2-4 drops in raw meat meals or wet food. Angel begab to be a fussy eater so i had to inject (not gonna work witb skittish cats).

Do let us know if the baking soda in water works. I've been using baking soda in my cats' diets for years to "aid the kidneys". It actually does the job of the kidneys, much like DMSO does the job of the liver.

DMSO and sodium bicarbonate make up my "Reanimation Combination" (c). They can keep an animal who should be dead very much alive.

As formy use of baking soda, i didn't use as much as such saturation used, just a sprinkle (about 1/10tsp) on each meal and about 1/4 tsp in 4oz water but always supply plain water as well. My situations involved pets that had trouble staying hydrated so it it was challenging to determine how much sodium would be too much.
 

yerrag

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Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
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Location
Manila
Lately, I've been having some luck with savings my cats. So I thought I'd share it with you. I wanted you to know though that the path to success is littered with many disappointments, and from all these I've learned from my mistakes. The most dreaded disease for me is feline distemper, and over the years it has claimed the lives of many of my kittens - a siamese kitten in my childhood, a litter of kitties born to my siamese 5 years ago, and lately, a Himalayan kitten that lasted only a week with given, given by a friend.

With all these prior bad experiences, I was a little better is seeing the signs in my two kittens - one being 5 months old, and the other close to a year old. I was watching them like a hawk after the Himalayan kitty died, not taking any chances. When Jenga, the 5-mo. old, started to change her behavior, I had to quickly devise a protocol for her. I gave her dissolved Emergen-C, copper acetate, and methylene blue with red light therapy, as well as an expired (1 year expired- no choice) homeo/herbal medicine made for feline distemper called Vibactra Plus. After 4 days of dropper medication, the kitten went back to her normal behavior. She would go back to begging for food beside the dinner table, trail me for some nibblings of koi food when I go to the koi pond, and would begin to drink milk as well as some bits of raw fish.

I'm not sure if the kitty would have survived without the expired Vibactra Plus, and I may never get to find out. But definitely, the vitamin C is a big help, the copper acetate is a good antibiotic, and methylene blue certainly helps with metabolism and energy. The red light therapy likewise. I'm just trying out the Peaty stuff in helping the kitty recover. I also had a peppermint/chamomile tea on standby, just in case I needed some more help. The tea is steeped also in garlic and mexican oregano leaf (which i use in place of echinacea capsules, which I don't have).

I'm happy this kitty survived. If I acted a day late, she would have been a goner. With the Himalayan, I was late and I could never get her back to health. Her intestines were already gone. When I put fluid in her through enema to rehydrate, her intestine could not even absorb the liquid (I had coconut water as electrolyte). She simply excreted out all the liquid.

A lesson I've learned with kittens that aren't vaccinated is that feline distemper could easily kill them. I've learned to observe anything out of the ordinary with the kitten. If she acts funny, I need to begin her on a protocol for feline distemper. Waiting for more confirmation will just make it too late. If her appetite changes, I will start her off on the protocol. This is a risk I take for not subjecting my kitty to vaccination. In the long term, there would be consequences in the form of chronic sickness.

As for my 1-year old male kitten named Jedi, he was also saved from hyperthyroid. He had begun to leave food on his tray, and had a reduced appetite. I was feeding him raw fish, and I suspected too much raw fish would eventually cause hyperthyroidism, where the cat would initially become plump, have a very hearty appetite, asking for more food, and at one point, the appetite would level off, and in a short time the cat would become skinny. I've had a cat die this way and I suspected it was because of the food I gave him. So, this time around, I was ready to act. I changed the food to cooked fish instead of raw. And started giving the cat selenomethionine. A week of this, and the cat was back to normal.

I hope that with these successes, I would be able to have these cats for a long while. Both of these are stray cats I picked up, one at 5-6 months old, and the other at a month old. I think they're a bit more hardy than the Siamese or even the Maine Coone. In the future, I hope to get these cats. They aren't as independent as the stray cats, and it's nice to see them come to me when called. Just as a dog would. Okay, maybe not as much.

With cats, I've learned to be more observant and to watch for cues. They don't tell us when they're sick. They just soldier on, and don't come running to us. They even hide and let their sickness fester.
 

Nikki

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Jul 28, 2016
Messages
118
I would not give methylene blue except in small doses and for short term. It is toxic to cats (and dogs).

I 1,000% believe in high dose Vitamin C for virus treatment. I used Vitamin C to treat some kittens who were given a death sentence for having FIP. Some Enzymes added to their commercial diet of "high quality" canned and dry food and some Ester C given twice daily kept them alive for months and they gradually got well. When they were adopted out, the rescue operator did not tell the new owners their history. At least one, a beautiful Himi, relapsed with chronic uncontrollable diarrhea and had to be kept in a bathroom. The operator threatened me and warned me not to tell the adopter about what was wrong with her cat. It was then that I found out she adopted out all 6 kittens without telling the adopters they had been very sick before and diagnosed with FIP. FIP is supposed to be 100% fatal so it makes sense that she wouldn't say they had that. but she should have said they were sick and vitamin C and enzymes helped them get through it. Ironically the diarrhea was not made worse by the C. It was bad to begin with but the kittens were able to self hydrate throughtout and eventually had nice firm stool and their swollen bellies returned to normal. It was fantastic to witness.

I don't know much about copper acetate, but appreciate the tip.

In the future, I would use mesosilver to treat either distemper or FIP.

Thank you thank you!
 

yerrag

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I would not give methylene blue except in small doses and for short term. It is toxic to cats (and dogs).

I 1,000% believe in high dose Vitamin C for virus treatment. I used Vitamin C to treat some kittens who were given a death sentence for having FIP. Some Enzymes added to their commercial diet of "high quality" canned and dry food and some Ester C given twice daily kept them alive for months and they gradually got well. When they were adopted out, the rescue operator did not tell the new owners their history. At least one, a beautiful Himi, relapsed with chronic uncontrollable diarrhea and had to be kept in a bathroom. The operator threatened me and warned me not to tell the adopter about what was wrong with her cat. It was then that I found out she adopted out all 6 kittens without telling the adopters they had been very sick before and diagnosed with FIP. FIP is supposed to be 100% fatal so it makes sense that she wouldn't say they had that. but she should have said they were sick and vitamin C and enzymes helped them get through it. Ironically the diarrhea was not made worse by the C. It was bad to begin with but the kittens were able to self hydrate throughtout and eventually had nice firm stool and their swollen bellies returned to normal. It was fantastic to witness.

I don't know much about copper acetate, but appreciate the tip.

In the future, I would use mesosilver to treat either distemper or FIP.

Thank you thank you!
Thanks for the warning on methylene blue Nikki. Glad that I was very conservative with the dosage rate. Since the kitty has recovered, I can discontinue with the methylene blue. Vitamin C certainly helps a lot. I read that there is a high grade form of Vitamin C that lasts as long as 9 hours in the body. The regular grade Vitamin C, supposedly, lasts only 2 hours in the body, and requires dosing, which makes it difficult when the cat resists being droppered with it. But I couldn't get information on the "high grade" Vitamin C. Could that be DHA or dehydroascorbic acid?

There is a recent thread on copper acetate, from which I got information to make my own copper acetate. I had it already, so it came in handy for use. I believe copper acetate is at least as effective as Mesosilver, and more concentrated. I was using 1 drop 4x a day on the kitten. It's less of a struggle for me as I can stealthily drop it in when the kitty is asleep. I also have Mesosilver, unopened, but decided to go with copper acetate. I really wouldn't know, if it helped in a big way. Kitty is back to health, back to cleaning herself, back to her ways. Took a lot of work, but worth it. Hate to see kittens go when FIP takes them away. Very sad when that happens. I think the rescue operator is really nasty. She could have infected a new household of unsuspecting owners with their own kitties. I guess she was more concerned with disposing of the kittens quickly more than anything else. A warning from her would make prospective owners shy away from the kittens.
 

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