Feeling Terrible At 22 (f) Desperately Seeking Advice

JazTee

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Hi there,

I hope you are all keeping well. I've been a lurker on here for a very long time and thought I might as well just ask for help instead of try to figure it out on my own because I've been unsuccessful in solving it.

I'll just get right to the point - I feel pretty terrible most days and my quality of life is becoming unbearable. I'm female, 22, 5ft 3, 130lbs, and I'm suffering from these persistant symptoms:
  • extremely fatigued no matter how much sleep
  • muscles feel weak and burn when I lift things despite exercising regularly
  • always hungry even after a meal.
  • regular constipation or have loose stools & wind.
  • have constant acne (dry skin)
  • keep getting severe joint pain in my fingers, wrists, knees, elbows, my spine.
  • get headaches and ringing in my ears every other day.
  • chronic low moods, suicidal thoughts near my periods that are pretty irregular.
  • cold, clammy hands & feet. (though starting to get warmer with current diet, still clammy though)
  • struggle with weight loss.
  • excess fat around stomach & hips - not very feminine body shape
  • low vitamin D
  • bloating
  • low pulse (68 - 70 last time I checked)
  • can't concentrate and struggle to listen in conversations due to tiredness
  • bipolar-esque mood swings

My whole health seems to be competely out of wack.

I grew up on a terrible diet -full of PUFA. I didn't start eating fruit or veg until I was 20 and I lived off gluten, chocolate, pork, pretty much everything that Peat says not to eat. I've also had trauma throughout my childhood, resulting in PTSD and OCD diagnoses - which I feel has definitely impacted my overall health as my body usually feels very tense and I clench my jaw through the day and grind my teeth in my sleep. I have had years of therapy but I found it actually never helped beyond the 1st year - which I believe my mood is mostly digestion related.

My Current Diet: THE PAST FOUR WEEKS
I try to be as good as I can be - so lots of fruit, raw carrot when I remember, liver 1x a week, eggs nearly every morning, lots of warm milk with sugar/honey, decaf coffee (regular coffee gives me headaches which I feel might be due to not enough sugar in the coffee so will experiment tomorrow),

Typical day - 5am wake up
Breakfast 5:30am : 2 eggs, (often with 1 slice of sourdough but make my own ancient grain GF toast sometimes) 1 cup of warm skim milk with sugar or decaf coffe, a piece of fruit (banana/apple/grapes/whatever I have in). 1 aspirin, niacinimide, vit D.
Snack 9am : 1.5 cups of warm skim milk with sugar - some fruit (used to be yoghurt)
Lunch 12pm: well cooked rice/GF pasta/potatoes with meat, or chicken casserole, or homemade root veg/squash soup, typically with more fruit to finish.
Snack 2pm/4pm: Whatever is in the house, sometimes I end up binging on fruit or chocolate, if there is junk food in the house I'll eventually cave in and eat the lot like a hungry bear.
Dinner 6pm: Usually beef or white fish with well boiled veggies or potatoes. Something sweet to finish like a hot chocolate or sweets.
Snack 8pm: usually another hot chocolate. (unsweetened cocoa poweder, 1/4 cup skim milk, 1 tsp sugar/honey)​

I salt everything loads too & fry in coconut oil or butter. I have constant cravings for more sugar. I counted the other day and I usually have around 1,500-2000kcal a day. I try to reach 100g a day protein, usually averaging around 70g-90g. Though, my fat levels have been quite high recently, usually at 40-50g. Carbs are like 300g a day.

I have recently (the past 5 days) cut out eating lots of yoghurt as I'm not too sure about the lactic acid.

My Diet 5 MONTHS AGO:

I was eating loads of low fat health foods. Lots of salad with low cal dressing. Lots of unsaturated fat humus & mayo etc (because I was an idiot despite knowing the dangers). I was averaging around 1,000-1,200 kcals a day, feeling faint all the time and sick and I was exercising every day obsessively for 45 mins - 1.5 hours. I was 121 lbs at my lightest but couldn't continue due to feeling so sick.

----

I gradually increased my calories to 1,500kcal and then just became ravenously hungry. I started running to "off-set" the hunger and the increase of calories. I was running nearly 5k three times a week. I was also doing lots of pilates etc. But I only maintaned the weight and slowly started putting on weight. I was in the best shape of my life BUT this is when the problems started:

The constant, insatiable hunger started. The fatigue became extreme. I thought this was due to my body finding its feet after my stupid diet but THEN the joint pain started and that's what has really been awful about my health recently. The pain, mixed with always feeling hungry and exhausted, with my muscles burning when I use them, just makes me feel absolutely miserable.

I've had all of these symptoms on/off for pretty much my whole life but never all of them at the same time.

I've been looking at thyroid but I am very hesitant when it is to difficult to get in the UK. I'm also looking at potential estrogen dominance so taking progesterone maybe?

I've had my blood taken and they found that I had no diabetes, kidney & liver function normal, bones normal, rheumatoid levels fine, no coeliac (though my mother is coeliac & severe food intolerance) but they did find inflammation in my blood and my vit D levels are low.

I'm at a complete loss at what to do. I just want to get my life back and stop feeling so miserable all the time. I ate a carrot salad 1 hour ago and my stomach is already rumbling. :confounded::confounded:

I would appreciate any advice people can give.

Thanks so much for all you contribute on this amazing forum.

- Jaz
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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Just to note: I no longer run due to to the knee pain and also because it suppresses thyroid. I stick to pilates & strength now but weight lifting hurts my joints so I don't manage to do that too often.
 

Maljam

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Everything you have said points to you having been over exercising and under eating for a long time. I'd lay off the exercise for a few weeks and increase your calories slowly, maybe 2-300 more a day per week, I imagine if you keep doing this and getting to around 2300-2500 calories a day minimum, many of your problems will have improved and you can reassess what you need to do, that would be the absolute foundation of going about fixing your health. No supplement or drug will fix a chronic calorie deficiency, your stress hormones will be through the roof. It takes a long time to recover from this. Your body needs energy to recover and heal. Eat the extra calories from a balance of all macros. Fat at 50g isn't too high at all, all 3 macros are beneficial.
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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Everything you have said points to you having been over exercising and under eating for a long time. I'd lay off the exercise for a few weeks and increase your calories slowly, maybe 2-300 more a day per week, I imagine if you keep doing this and getting to around 2300-2500 calories a day minimum, many of your problems will have improved and you can reassess what you need to do, that would be the absolute foundation of going about fixing your health. No supplement or drug will fix a chronic calorie deficiency, your stress hormones will be through the roof. It takes a long time to recover from this. Your body needs energy to recover and heal. Eat the extra calories from a balance of all macros. Fat at 50g isn't too high at all, all 3 macros are beneficial.

Hi - thanks so much for the comment.

I should have clarified that I haven't actually been exercising that long. I only started regular exercise in 2020 from Jan-May and then stopped cold turkey for 2.5 months when my dog died. I literally laid down most of the day and ate a massive surplus of calories - I gained 10lbs in a month so I know my body was healing but now I really want to feel healthy as well as move around - and lose the excess fat that I've gained.

Growing up I never exericsed at all. I would just sit most of the day and ate a terrible diet. (binged/purged/starved/ mostly binged on chocolate and sweets and weighed 165lbs or so) I would still get the majority of my current symptoms, just not all at once like I have been experiencing recently.

Nowadays my diet is as Ray Peat as it has ever been, though my body really doesn't look or feel healthy. It looks very similar to images I've seen online with hypothyroid which makes me quite nervous. I generally feel worse now than I did when I was a teenager.

Do you think it's still related to exercise or could it be the sheer years of damage I did to my body?
 

Recoen

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Have you tried vitamin B1 - sounds like your muscles are building up lactic acid easily; also for the energy issues? Do you use gelatin/ collagen?
 

Jessie

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Did you get blood work done? I assume you did, because you mentioned you're low in vitamin D. Do you happen to know your iron status? Serum iron, ferritin, and transferrin are the major ones. Many of those symptoms you mentioned are common in people with copper misplacement, and/or copper insufficiency (which will cause iron to get out of control).

Do you eat liver? Getting biweekly servings of beef liver and plenty of sunlight daily is the best way to reestablish proper copper status. The sunlight will also provide vitamin D.

Addressing gut issues are always paramount. Whenever someone's health starts to decline, they should always start with the presumption it's a intestinal problem. Cleaning the gut can solve so many problems.

Pregnenolone is really good for depression, mood swings, suicidal thoughts, etc.
 

Maljam

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Hi - thanks so much for the comment.

I should have clarified that I haven't actually been exercising that long. I only started regular exercise in 2020 from Jan-May and then stopped cold turkey for 2.5 months when my dog died. I literally laid down most of the day and ate a massive surplus of calories - I gained 10lbs in a month so I know my body was healing but now I really want to feel healthy as well as move around - and lose the excess fat that I've gained.

Growing up I never exericsed at all. I would just sit most of the day and ate a terrible diet. (binged/purged/starved/ mostly binged on chocolate and sweets and weighed 165lbs or so) I would still get the majority of my current symptoms, just not all at once like I have been experiencing recently.

Nowadays my diet is as Ray Peat as it has ever been, though my body really doesn't look or feel healthy. It looks very similar to images I've seen online with hypothyroid which makes me quite nervous. I generally feel worse now than I did when I was a teenager.

Do you think it's still related to exercise or could it be the sheer years of damage I did to my body?

Ah right, got you. How long were you eating the 1000-1200 calories a day?
 

Vinny

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I was averaging around 1,000-1,200 kcals a day, feeling faint all the time and sick and I was exercising every day obsessively for 45 mins - 1.5 hours.

I was running nearly 5k three times a week.

I've been looking at thyroid but I am very hesitant when it is to difficult to get in the UK.

Horrible. Just horrible...
:hairpull

There are many, very simple and effective things you can do to improve, before YOU EVEN CONSIDER taking Thyroid. Like, slowing the pace a bit, for example....
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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Horrible. Just horrible...
:hairpull

There are many, very simple and effective things you can do to improve, before YOU EVEN CONSIDER taking Thyroid. Like, slowing the pace a bit, for example....

Hi Vinny, I have completely slowed down now! I've kept my exercise very minimal for the past 3.5 months and stopped running completely. When I do exercise I only exercise for 30-40 mins maximum - partly due to the intense fatigue I'm still feeling, which is actually getting worse as time goes on. I don't do anything to induce intense stress when I exercise anymore - which isn't necessarily helping my excess fat issue.
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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Ah right, got you. How long were you eating the 1000-1200 calories a day?

I had been doing it on and off for like most of my teenage years! ( >.< )
Though this year it was from Feb - end of March. So just over a month or so. I got so weak so I just increased it naturally. Now I'm eating the highest calories I think I ever have consistently, but I'm just constantly hungry still and sick of gaining weight from eating so much. It's a real catch 22.
 

Maljam

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I had been doing it on and off for like most of my teenage years! ( >.< )
Though this year it was from Feb - end of March. So just over a month or so. I got so weak so I just increased it naturally. Now I'm eating the highest calories I think I ever have consistently, but I'm just constantly hungry still and sick of gaining weight from eating so much. It's a real catch 22.

If you are constantly hungry, your body is telling you something. Unfortunately due to your past history of restriction you may not have any choice but to gain some weight while you restore your health. If I were you I would eat until the constant hunger isn't a thing. Eating and feeling ravenous afterwards is usually a telltale sign of not enough calories.

I would personally have 3 big, mixed meals a day. Starch that you tolerate, fatty meat, or something like cheese or butter if you don't enjoy fatty meat and have less fatty meat, or eggs, small amounts of vegetables, some fruit, glass of whole milk, something sweet for dessert. Don't restrict anything, mix of everything.
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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Did you get blood work done? I assume you did, because you mentioned you're low in vitamin D. Do you happen to know your iron status? Serum iron, ferritin, and transferrin are the major ones. Many of those symptoms you mentioned are common in people with copper misplacement, and/or copper insufficiency (which will cause iron to get out of control).

Do you eat liver? Getting biweekly servings of beef liver and plenty of sunlight daily is the best way to reestablish proper copper status. The sunlight will also provide vitamin D.

Addressing gut issues are always paramount. Whenever someone's health starts to decline, they should always start with the presumption it's a intestinal problem. Cleaning the gut can solve so many problems.

Pregnenolone is really good for depression, mood swings, suicidal thoughts, etc.

Hi Jessie - thanks for commenting! Really appreciate it.

I didn't actually get much info back regarding my blood apart from "[x] is okay. no action needed" in an email. I got told that my iron is normal - so that's the only thing I know unfortunately! Would the goal be eliminating iron from my diet if the iron was out of control?

I eat lambs liver once a week which I find an immediate boost from, but it doesn't last too much longer through the week. Though I have started noticing my acne getting less severe - but I'm unsure whether it is due to the adapelene cream I apply at night or if it's the liver.

I hear you about the gut. I think I've tortured mine for nearly my whole life and it just doesn't know what to do anymore. I was watching Danny Roddy in a video where he linked hypothyroid symptoms to bacteria in the gut - which since I'm constantly bloated and having digestive troubles (with all the other symtpoms, too) I would probably say I have.

My boyfriend and I have been looking at pregnenolone. I saw the progesterone is typically safer for oral ingestion - do you take pregnenolone? How do you find it? I feel that if my estrogen dominance was sorted out, it might probably help out all around.
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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Have you tried vitamin B1 - sounds like your muscles are building up lactic acid easily; also for the energy issues? Do you use gelatin/ collagen?

Hi - I haven't actually tried B1 so I'll have to look into it. I also haven't tried gelatin or collagen yet either, but I've been wanting to incorporate gelatin into my homebaking so I can get some more of that in to potentially alleviate some of my joint pain. My boyfriend recently made chicekn stock with bones so thankfully managed to get some in this week - but too early and infrequent to tell if it has helped with my joint pain very much.
 

yashi

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I would add some hydrolized collagen or gelatin (or gelatinous broth/meats) to your diet. It will be just a small puzzle piece and not a cure-all, but your symptoms likely are in big part because of high serotonin. So one way to work on that is fixing your gut (most serotonin is made there, you'll likely have endotoxin issues you need to address) and the other is to lower tryptophan (which can turn into serotonin) while still keeping protein adequate (and this is where gelatin/collagen is useful, as it does not contain tryptophan).

The most convenient and easiest way to get some gelatin into your diet is to add 15-20g of hydrolyzed collagen to your coffee. It dissolves well and makes it more creamy.

I also would be careful with thyroid supplementation until you have any nutrient deficiencies sorted out and enough cholesterol (over 200 or so) to have benefit of it. But others likely have more experience with that side of things. But from what I gathered is that it can you make more fatiqued if you raise your metabolism too fast without enough nutritional input and high enough nutrient stores in your body.
 

Jessie

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Hi Jessie - thanks for commenting! Really appreciate it.

I didn't actually get much info back regarding my blood apart from "[x] is okay. no action needed" in an email. I got told that my iron is normal - so that's the only thing I know unfortunately! Would the goal be eliminating iron from my diet if the iron was out of control?
Not really, you need some iron. In fact a small amount is needed for proper thyroid function. Eating the liver 1-2 twice a week would be the best thing. Iron is only an issue after it starts displacing copper. Other sources of copper are shrimp, cocoa, mushrooms.

I eat lambs liver once a week which I find an immediate boost from, but it doesn't last too much longer through the week. Though I have started noticing my acne getting less severe - but I'm unsure whether it is due to the adapelene cream I apply at night or if it's the liver.
Liver has worked for several people in regards to acne. Probably has something to do with the high retinol content. I would continue with the routine to see if more improvements happen.

I hear you about the gut. I think I've tortured mine for nearly my whole life and it just doesn't know what to do anymore. I was watching Danny Roddy in a video where he linked hypothyroid symptoms to bacteria in the gut - which since I'm constantly bloated and having digestive troubles (with all the other symtpoms, too) I would probably say I have.
Yeah, this can make a huge difference. Probably the main issue with most people tbh. The carrot salad helps, and it helps really good once you're in a routine of eating it daily. The first few days not much is noticeable. After 2-3 weeks of daily use you can start to tell the carrot makes a difference. It can get old eating it straight, so a lot of times I mix pre-cooked hamburger meat and cheese in it. Important thing is eating it raw. You may also need something with a stronger antiseptic effect. Coconut oil + charcoal seems to be a favorite among many.

My boyfriend and I have been looking at pregnenolone. I saw the progesterone is typically safer for oral ingestion - do you take pregnenolone? How do you find it? I feel that if my estrogen dominance was sorted out, it might probably help out all around.
It's quite safe if it's a pure product. I think Peat has spoken before that it's hard to fine quality pregnenolone, and that many people react to the impurities in it.

I've taken StressNon (topical preg) before, I liked it. Made me warm and relaxed. It's main function is to kick start hormone synthesis, and it can get converted into many other downstream hormones like DHEA, progesterone, and allopregnanolone.

The last one being the significant player in mood and mental health if I'm not mistaken. I even think companies have marketed drugs off it before, so it's pretty effective. It also opposes ACTH and aldosterone, so there's several different reasons why it could make you feel better.

Progesterone is safe too, probably more so for women then men. As a man, I would try pregnenolone first, just my opinion. Taking too much progesterone can oppose T.
 

Vinny

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Hi Vinny, I have completely slowed down now! I've kept my exercise very minimal for the past 3.5 months and stopped running completely. When I do exercise I only exercise for 30-40 mins maximum - partly due to the intense fatigue I'm still feeling, which is actually getting worse as time goes on. I don't do anything to induce intense stress when I exercise anymore - which isn't necessarily helping my excess fat issue.
OK, this is a good beginning, but IMO, it's not enough. You most probably won't take my advice, but in case of fatigue, you shouldn't exercise AT ALL.

I'm not sure what to say about your fat gain, it's possible to be an inflammatory response from almost a life long undereating and abusing your body, but I speculate here. However, I can guarantee you, that, at this point, exercise won't do any good in that regard.
 

Recoen

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OK, this is a good beginning, but IMO, it's not enough. You most probably won't take my advice, but in case of fatigue, you shouldn't exercise AT ALL.

I'm not sure what to say about your fat gain, it's possible to be an inflammatory response from almost a life long undereating and abusing your body, but I speculate here. However, I can guarantee you, that, at this point, exercise won't do any good in that regard.

Second. I went from pushing myself like crazy on very restricted diets and intense exercise routines to winding up in the hospital with doctors scratching their heads trying to figure out why I was so catabolic, etc. This along with other life stress crashed my health in my early 20s. I also gained a fair amount of fat and lost a lot of muscle. I’m nearing the end of my 20s and am finally healing. As I gain muscle my body is naturally losing fat. I understand the viewpoint of not liking the present moment/ circumstance and wanting to change it. But from someone who went through a similar path I wish someone would have told me to stop, rest, eat, and supplement.
 

Vinny

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Second. I went from pushing myself like crazy on very restricted diets and intense exercise routines to winding up in the hospital with doctors scratching their heads trying to figure out why I was so catabolic, etc. This along with other life stress crashed my health in my early 20s. I also gained a fair amount of fat and lost a lot of muscle. I’m nearing the end of my 20s and am finally healing. As I gain muscle my body is naturally losing fat. I understand the viewpoint of not liking the present moment/ circumstance and wanting to change it. But from someone who went through a similar path I wish someone would have told me to stop, rest, eat, and supplement.
This has the price of gold.
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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Second. I went from pushing myself like crazy on very restricted diets and intense exercise routines to winding up in the hospital with doctors scratching their heads trying to figure out why I was so catabolic, etc. This along with other life stress crashed my health in my early 20s. I also gained a fair amount of fat and lost a lot of muscle. I’m nearing the end of my 20s and am finally healing. As I gain muscle my body is naturally losing fat. I understand the viewpoint of not liking the present moment/ circumstance and wanting to change it. But from someone who went through a similar path I wish someone would have told me to stop, rest, eat, and supplement.

Thanks so much for this comment. It's really resonated with me. I have been back and forth to A&E and the GP for years with nobody really helping me. Some Drs thought I was pre-diabetic which really freaked me out - and now they've found inflammation in my blood having arthritis symtoms, my health is quite worrying to me.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write this comment. Can I ask how long you would recommend not exercising for? I have really severe body dysmorphia, so the 10lbs that I have gained already is really causing me a lot of upset. I'm scared that my body won't stop gaining weight if I eat lots of calories & sugar while not exercising. 4 years ago, I weighed 165lbs, so will I just get back up to that weight? I wasn't exercising, but I was eating loads of gluten & junk food. I was absolutely miserable with my body back then (felt pretty terribly too) and I only start feeling mentally happier when I am at a body size I feel comfortable in. If I were to go back to eating more but with whole foods like fruit, gelatin, meat, etc, do you think I would gain the same amount of fat like I had?

When I exercise, I do feel better immediately and for the rest of the day I have raised energy levels. It's when I don't exercise that I absolutely tank. Is this because of raised adrenaline and cortisol from the exercise or is it something else, do you think?

I would love to sort out my digestion and health (mental and physical) problems, I'm just terrified I'm going to gain loads of weight and swap one problem for another. I also do modelling so have to be very careful with how much weight I actually gain if I'm repairing my metabolism. I've watched Stephanie Buttermore's video on her weight gain going "all-in" for a year, she gained 40+lbs before her body started to let go of the fat. Do you think my body needs to hold onto fat like she did even though I have a very healthy body fat percentage? Why are you suggesting to not exercise and eat more - I'm still a bit confused as to why it needs to stop completely?

Thanks so much.
 
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JazTee

JazTee

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OK, this is a good beginning, but IMO, it's not enough. You most probably won't take my advice, but in case of fatigue, you shouldn't exercise AT ALL.

I'm not sure what to say about your fat gain, it's possible to be an inflammatory response from almost a life long undereating and abusing your body, but I speculate here. However, I can guarantee you, that, at this point, exercise won't do any good in that regard.

Thank you so much Vinny. It would make sense having inflammation as my blood has inflammation & my joints have been very uncomfortable and painful recently.

How long do you think I should refrain from exercise? I'm very worried about gaining too much fat if my body doesn't need to gain it though. I watched Stephanie Buttermore's "all in" videos when she was severely underweight and exercising too much to the point of losing her period. I'm only 5ft3 and 130lbs so I have a very normal body fat percentage, almost a high percentage if you were to see my body - got a lot of fat deposits on my stomach & hips and face, so woud my body just keep gaining more and more fat and not reach it's peak like with Stephanie? She gained 40+lbs and then finally started losing weight as her body was no longer holding onto the fat in a stress response from her previous starvation. I'm worried that due to me being quite a healthy weight at 121lbs for my height when I was exercising a lot a few months ago, that the stress in my body wasn't the lack of fat, and I would just be gaining fat for no reason, which in turn wouldn't reach a peak and I would just continue to store fat until I become overweight. If that makes sense.
 

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