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Feeling incredibly Dried-Out after breakfast (includes liver): Vitamin A Toxicity?

julcreutz

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After breakfast, I always feel incredibly dried out. My whole body, especially my eyes and tongue. I always eat a bit of liver for breakfast and have been for at least the last 6 months.
Thing is, it's only breakfast. My other meals are basically the same foods, just without the liver. And I feel fine after these meals.

I have taken accutane as a teen and I have formerly been on a very low VA carnivore diet for about 1 year before having started to eat liver again. I did start the liver again to see if it improved my health, but honestly, looking back, it really didn't do a lot. I did notice an energy boost from the liver, but only initially, and the effect subsided over a few days.

Could this mean hypervitaminosis A in my case?

I will cut out liver for the next week and see if that improves.
 
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After breakfast, I always feel incredibly dried out. My whole body, especially my eyes and tongue. I always eat a bit of liver for breakfast and have been for at least the last 6 months.
Thing is, it's only breakfast. My other meals are basically the same foods, just without the liver. And I feel fine after these meals.

I have taken accutane as a teen and I have formerly been on a very low VA carnivore diet for about 1 year before having started to eat liver again. I did start the liver again to see if it improved my health, but honestly, looking back, it really didn't do a lot. I did notice an energy boost from the liver, but only initially, and the effect subsided over a few days.

Could this mean hypervitaminosis A in my case?

I will cut out liver for the next week and see if that improves.
Ray Peat does say 3 ounces a week of liver, so I think your prognosis is right. Cow's liver is vitamin A, retinol, and Retin-A is very drying. Sounds like a case of "too much of of a good thing" to me!
 

julcreutz

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Ray Peat does say 3 ounces a week of liver, so I think your prognosis is right. Cow's liver is vitamin A, retinol, and Retin-A is very drying. Sounds like a case of "too much of of a good thing" to me!

Yeah, I suppose that might be it. Will have to see how I feel in a week!

If youre zinc deficient vitamin A can build up in your tissues

I doubt that I am. I'm eating a lot of beef and other ruminant meats every day.
 

Birdie

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It would help to know how much liver you consider to be "a bit" of liver. I make one pound of liver about once a month. Then, between the two of us, eating our little bit each day for about 7 days, it is eaten up. I think it's one part of the Ray combo that turned my hair from graying back to blond in 2012. And I have such improved energy while we are eating liver. I should eat it more often.

Another thing about vitamin A is that Ray explained how it helps when you are eating a higher metabolism diet. In my case, I had breakouts on my back after increasing my metabolism. Ray suggested additional vitamin A. It fixed the problem for me when I first started out in 2011, and again years later when I forgot to use enough A.

It doesn't make sense to me that a tiny bit of liver along with breakfast could be the cause of dryness. Of course, as you say, your amount every day liver might be too much for you. It would depend on a lot of factors like weight and need of nutrients and your rate of metabolism.

You might want to take your temp and pulse on awakening, after eating liver, and a few hours later. Then you can gage whether your metabolism is low or as high as you want it. Maybe you already do that?

Best to you.
 

mrchibbs

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Daily liver is probably too much liver for most people.

And as @Birdie mentioned, if your metabolism is not optimal, vitamin A can cause problems. A child with high pulse and temperature could probably thrive on daily liver, an adult, not so much.

Moreover, vitamin A is actually associated with dry skin. It stops excess sebum production and causes shedding so no surprise there.

I would check vitamin D levels, take a bit extra vitamin E and move from daily liver to weekly liver. After 6 months you probably have filled up any deficiency.
 

Birdie

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Daily liver is probably too much liver for most people.

And as @Birdie mentioned, if your metabolism is not optimal, vitamin A can cause problems. A child with high pulse and temperature could probably thrive on daily liver, an adult, not so much.

Moreover, vitamin A is actually associated with dry skin. It stops excess sebum production and causes shedding so no surprise there.

I would check vitamin D levels, take a bit extra vitamin E and move from daily liver to weekly liver. After 6 months you probably have filled up any deficiency.
Yes I would look at vitamin D. I thought of that as I left the house today. Glad you noticed that.

I remember Ray's saying something like having a 5:1 ratio of vitamin D to vitamin A. You have to use D if you use A. Lots of reasons to use vitamin D aren't there.

He doesn't go for much supplementation with vitamin E now that there doesn't seem to be a good one available. I still take it but much less since the changes in Unique E made it less safe.
 

mrchibbs

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I think the TocoVit product from IdeaLabs is excellent and apparently it's very close to the original vitamin E from the 50s that Ray talked about. It's made from wheat germ oil and not soy.

I think the antioxidants vitamins E and C prevent the oxidation of vitamin A, so it's a good idea to supplement those for a while.
 

lampofred

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I think excess vitamin A only unmasks other imbalances but is never the root cause of a problem. I think insufficient saturated fat, too much starch & meat (iron/phosphate) can cause dryness.
 

julcreutz

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Thanks guys. I estimate that in a week, I've had consumed 200-400g of liver in total.

I must state that I've not eaten liver for breakfast yesterday and did not have the feeling of incredible dryness. I'll continue to abstain from liver and see how it goes.
 

Birdie

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So, you eat liver with breakfast, and say that you suspect that the vitamin A in it could be drying out your body.

Then, you seem to say that your other meals without liver don't dry you out. But the thing is that vitamin A being fat soluble stays in the tissue. So, it is strange that lunch without liver solves the problem.
 
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So, you eat liver with breakfast, and say that you suspect that the vitamin A in it could be drying out your body.

Then, you seem to say that your other meals without liver don't dry you out. But the thing is that vitamin A being fat soluble stays in the tissue. So, it is strange that lunch without liver solves the problem.
Liver is SO high in Retinol A and Retinol is very drying. That is why, and other reasons, Ray Peat recommends only 3 ounces of it a week. Vitamin A from too many raw carrots once turned my mom's skin orange. A little vitamin A apparently goes a longvway!
 

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nikotrope

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Yeah, I suppose that might be it. Will have to see how I feel in a week!



I doubt that I am. I'm eating a lot of beef and other ruminant meats every day.
You can have a zinc deficiency even if you eat plenty of meat and shellfish. Functional thiamine deficiency does that (it can be related to gut health).
 
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After breakfast, I always feel incredibly dried out. My whole body, especially my eyes and tongue. I always eat a bit of liver for breakfast and have been for at least the last 6 months.
Thing is, it's only breakfast. My other meals are basically the same foods, just without the liver. And I feel fine after these meals.

I have taken accutane as a teen and I have formerly been on a very low VA carnivore diet for about 1 year before having started to eat liver again. I did start the liver again to see if it improved my health, but honestly, looking back, it really didn't do a lot. I did notice an energy boost from the liver, but only initially, and the effect subsided over a few days.

Could this mean hypervitaminosis A in my case?

I will cut out liver for the next week and see if that improves.
Here is a little extra info on liver.
 

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Joined
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After breakfast, I always feel incredibly dried out. My whole body, especially my eyes and tongue. I always eat a bit of liver for breakfast and have been for at least the last 6 months.
Thing is, it's only breakfast. My other meals are basically the same foods, just without the liver. And I feel fine after these meals.

I have taken accutane as a teen and I have formerly been on a very low VA carnivore diet for about 1 year before having started to eat liver again. I did start the liver again to see if it improved my health, but honestly, looking back, it really didn't do a lot. I did notice an energy boost from the liver, but only initially, and the effect subsided over a few days.

Could this mean hypervitaminosis A in my case?

I will cut out liver for the next week and see if that improves.
It is also important to have ample amounts of vitamin D/sunshine to properly use liver.
 
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There is a lot of conversation on this site about too much liver.
 

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Birdie

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Liver is SO high in Retinol A and Retinol is very drying. That is why, and other reasons, Ray Peat recommends only 3 ounces of it a week. Vitamin A from too many raw carrots once turned my mom's skin orange. A little vitamin A apparently goes a longvway!
Yes, we know liver is high in vitamin A and that vitamin A is drying, or can be if overdone. But my point is that the vitamin A stays in the tissues. It doesn't leave the body when you eat the next lower in vitamin A meal.
 
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Yes, we know liver is high in vitamin A and that vitamin A is drying, or can be if overdone. But my point is that the vitamin A stays in the tissues. It doesn't leave the body when you eat the next lower in vitamin A meal.
I think julcreutz having taken accutane is the reason, that will forever make this person react to vitamin A and the sun differently than you and I Birdie, probably like an immediate immune response. I doubt julcreutz is meaning they have visible peeling skin between meal, but more of an extremely dehydrated feeling.
 

julcreutz

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I think julcreutz having taken accutane is the reason, that will forever make this person react to vitamin A and the sun differently than you and I Birdie, probably like an immediate immune response. I doubt julcreutz is meaning they have visible peeling skin between meal, but more of an extremely dehydrated feeling.
Yes, you're spot on. It's a feeling of incredible dehydration, my skin is actually fine.
 
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