Fatigue on minocycline

[freyasam]

Thank you messtafarian!

 

[HDD]

I am pretty sure my dizziness and fatigue were from hypoglycemia. Minocycline lowers blood sugar and I had eaten an egg for breakfast w/o much else except coffee with condensed milk. I then went out running errands. I bought a coke while out which relieved the dizziness but the fatigue lasted into the evening.

All symptoms are gone today but I did not take any more minocycline.

 

[freyasam]

I was on 100mg a day for almost a month and was just upped to 200mg a day. I'm on it for a bacterial infection. It took at least a week for me till the dizziness and aching muscles were gone. Now that my dose has been upped, the dizziness and muscle aches are back. I've read it effects the central nervous system and crosses the blood brain barrier so I attributed the dizziness to that. Wiki has this to say about it:

"Minocycline is the most lipid-soluble of the tetracycline-class antibiotics, giving it the greatest penetration into the prostate and brain, but also the greatest amount of central nervous system (CNS)-related side effects, such as vertigo."

I have to say, the Minocycline is awesome for the skin or at least it has been for me. My skin is so soft right now despite the dry winter weather where I live. It got rid of the rash I had developed from the bacterial infection and my teeth stay squeaky clean, even by the end of the day.

Jennifer, I was reading in another thread how you got infections after stopping another antibiotic. Are you doing anything to avoid infections this time around (or planning to when you stop this round)? How long are you taking it this time? I do worry about developing infections or getting worse acne after I eventually stop minocycline (and I have no idea when I should stop it!).

 

[Jennifer]

Jennifer, I was reading in another thread how you got infections after stopping another antibiotic. Are you doing anything to avoid infections this time around (or planning to when you stop this round)? How long are you taking it this time? I do worry about developing infections or getting worse acne after I eventually stop minocycline (and I have no idea when I should stop it!).

Oh, sorry for the confusion, freyasam. I didn't develop an infection after taking another antibiotic (Neomycin). I've been dealing with this infection for at least five years now as it had gone undetected. The Genova comprehensive stool test I took this past December uncovered it and they gave recommendations for what antibiotics are best at treating my particular infection. Minocycline was one of them, but Neomycin was not so the Neomycin just wasn't the right antibiotic, not that it actually caused it.

This morning, I happened to google if depression was a side effect of the Mino and one link took me to an acne forum where a few people complained of urinary track infections and Lindsay mentioned getting one as well while she was on antibiotics, but I've had no problems with that at this point. If you're worried, Lindsay mentioned taking cranberry extract and said it worked great at getting rid of the UTI.

So far, I've done a month at 100mg once a day and I just started my second month at the 100mg twice a day. This second time around has hit me hard and I've been so depressed and sobbing like crazy. I'm trying to keep to myself while this blows over, which isn't hard given I've been in bed so much due to the fatigue. I think if you can clear up the bacteria while eating foods that digest well for you, leading to less bacterial overgrowth in the long run, you should hopefully see lasting results.

As for dosing, Ray gave this recomendation in an email exchange so it might give you an idea on how to proceed:

"For myself, I judge by symptoms; if I feel an effect from a first dose, I take a smaller dose, usually 100mg, the next time, and similar amounts as long as the symptom is decreasing, and when I don't notice any symptom, I take a few smaller doses."

 

[freyasam]

Thanks Jennifer! May I ask what infection you're dealing with? Genova has found some parasites for me in the past and I'm curious to know what minocycline would treat.

Sorry to hear it's causing depression for you. Hope that issue improves quickly.

I've been taking 100 mg in split doses. I wonder if it would be better to take it all at once? It would certainly be easier, because you're supposed to avoid calcium and magnesium supps for 2 hours after taking the abx.

One of the symptoms I'm trying to treat with the mino is acne, which has started to clear up. So maybe I will decrease dose once it's all cleared. I'm not really sure how long to take the abx for. It would be great to have a doctor to work with but I haven't found a good one and don't want to keep wasting money on switching doctors.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks Jennifer! May I ask what infection you're dealing with? Genova has found some parasites for me in the past and I'm curious to know what minocycline would treat.

Sorry to hear it's causing depression for you. Hope that issue improves quickly.

I've been taking 100 mg in split doses. I wonder if it would be better to take it all at once? It would certainly be easier, because you're supposed to avoid calcium and magnesium supps for 2 hours after taking the abx.

One of the symptoms I'm trying to treat with the mino is acne, which has started to clear up. So maybe I will decrease dose once it's all cleared. I'm not really sure how long to take the abx for. It would be great to have a doctor to work with but I haven't found a good one and don't want to keep wasting money on switching doctors.

Sorry I missed your comment, freyasam.

I have a bacterial infection from many different strains. If you want to know the exact ones, I put my Genova results up on my log, but the cliff's notes' version is the Mincycline treats many different strains.

I was taking the 100mg dose all at once so I would think you'd be fine doing the same this way it makes it easier on you. I take it at night before I go to bed so that I don't have to worry about the calcium/supplement issue and I sleep through some of the side effects.

It definitely is tough finding a good doctor to work with, but don't feel too bad because even with the great doctor I have, I've still had to doctor myself for the most part. Where I've lucked out is my doctor is very open minded, willing to do the tests I ask for and doesn't give up trying to help me heal.

 

[freyasam]

Thanks Jennifer!

 

[freyasam]

Has anyone else noticed increased sensitivity to caffeine on minocycline or other ABX? I drank one cup of coffee yesterday with lunch with, I don't know, a 1/4 cup or more of sugar. I STILL feel anxious today!! I've always been sensitive to caffeine but not this bad.

Also noticing more burn/flushed feeling and redness in my face. And bowels have been moving much more slowly.

Any ideas what to do about these symptoms?

 

[Nick Ireland]

The endotoxin released by the bacteria as part of their metabolism causes a large increase in cortisol which Peat referred to in one of his essays. The cortisol is an attempt to reduce gut inflammation and Peat suggests some intestinal walls can swell to an inch thick or more. After a while, your body adjusts to this new level of cortisol. Once you start killing off the bacteria, the cortisol will fall, possibly dramatically, as inflammation is finally subdued. Cortisol is a natural pain killer of sorts and a provider of energy (in this case dominant) via the metabolism of fats. The net result is achiness for lack of pain suppression, low energy as the body reverts to normal glucose metabolism, and perhaps depression as the stimulating effects of this hormone are removed. Reading above, it looks like maybe only a week or two is required for this ugly adjustment phase.
I had a very similar experience with clarithromycin and also flagyl, resulting in severe mood drops within several days. I backed off, fearing the worst, but after reading a few Peat essays I have a more confident understanding now. I have some doxy at hand so will brave it out for a fortnight soon.

 

[freyasam]

I took minocycline for about 16 days. Anxiety and fatigue just got unbearable. My theory is that when I get constipated (which I tend to do), endotoxin builds up and poisons me, giving me these bad symptoms. Minocycline really constipated me, and everything got much worse. I know people say to take cascara sagrada or high magnesium. But I feel those things just give me some diarrhea but not really a thorough BM

 

[Jennifer]

Then I think it was good that you stopped it, freyasam. The symptoms of constipation made me think of this quote by peatarian:

As I know now, you usually don't have any trouble with bowel movement when there are 'enough' endotoxins in your intestines. In fact everything blocking or lowering serotonin(which is mostly promoted by endotoxins as is estrogen and as are the other stress hormones) will start a shift toward constipation. Using too much ondansetron will cause constipation. Using just enough will normalize soft stool or stop diarrhea (there is a new off label use ingastritis and other stomach diseases). Most bacteria - even the so called 'good bacteria' produce toxic waste.

When you say everything got worse, does this mean your acne got worse too?

When my doctor doubled my dose, it was horrible. I lasted about two weeks that resulted in profuse vomiting spells and I just couldn't take it anymore. I went back down to one dose and I haven't had an issue since, just positive results. Nick's explanation makes a lot of sense and I know for a fact I had a lot of intestinal inflammation made evident by an endoscopy and well, the horrible gnawing and burning. I think for me though, given how bad my infection started out as, I need to go the slow and steady route if just for my sanity alone.

 

[freyasam]

Then I think it was good that you stopped it, freyasam. The symptoms of constipation made me think of this quote by peatarian:

As I know now, you usually don't have any trouble with bowel movement when there are 'enough' endotoxins in your intestines. In fact everything blocking or lowering serotonin(which is mostly promoted by endotoxins as is estrogen and as are the other stress hormones) will start a shift toward constipation. Using too much ondansetron will cause constipation. Using just enough will normalize soft stool or stop diarrhea (there is a new off label use ingastritis and other stomach diseases). Most bacteria - even the so called 'good bacteria' produce toxic waste.

When you say everything got worse, does this mean your acne got worse too?

When my doctor doubled my dose, it was horrible. I lasted about two weeks that resulted in perfuse vomiting spells and I just couldn't take it anymore. I went back down to one dose and I haven't had an issue since, just positive results. Nick's explanation makes a lot of sense and I know for a fact I had a lot of intestinal inflammation made evident by an endoscopy and well, the horrible gnawing and burning. I think for me though, given how bad my infection started out as, I need to go the slow and steady route if just for my sanity alone.

Interesting quote by peatarian. Wonder how he/she formulated the theory that lowering serotonin will shift toward constipation. Or is this Peat's claim? I'm especially interested because I'm experimenting with cyproheptadine to lower serotonin. But I have tended toward constipation all my life, and the past few months it's gotten worse. And when things aren't moving well, I get more of a stress response (anxiety, heart palps, insatiable hunger etc).

No, acne was the only thing to improve. Yay! But rosacea is still there and I still have a burning sensation on my face most of the time.

 

[Jennifer]

I assume she got that from Ray and her studies, but I'm not positive.

I'm with you in that when things aren't moving well, negative symptoms arise. That's why I think there's truth to what Nick said.

Ray has talked about inflammation causing the intestinal wall to thicken and constipation can result. This was my line of thinking with regards to what he has said and peatarian's quote above so don't take it as fact. I could be completely wrong about this. Bacteria can cause irritation/inflammation and I imagine a speeding up of peristalsis in our body's attempt at disposing of endotoxins as quickly as possible. So just because things are moving along faster without, say Minocycline, doesn't mean it was moving faster in a positive way. So without minocycline, things may be moving faster because of excess bacteria being excreted by the body and with Minocycline, it's slowed because the bacteria is no longer in excess and you are left with the aftermath, the thickened intestinal walls which need time to heal.

YAY! to no more acne. That's great! From what I understand, rosacea can indicate an overgrowth of bacteria, but I question if it's now simply a matter of giving your gut time to heal up any residual inflammation and mucosal lining damage that resulted from the bacteria? Have you noticed even a little fading of the redness?

 

[tara]

Wonder how he/she formulated the theory that lowering serotonin will shift toward constipation. Or is this Peat's claim? I'm especially interested because I'm experimenting with cyproheptadine to lower serotonin.

IIRC from Peat, the function of serotonin in the gut is to stimulate peristalsis. Gut serotonin increases in response to stretching, friction, or irritation of the intestine. Irritation can also cause inflammation and narrowing of the intestinal lumen, promoting constipation. So cyproheptadine can lower peristalsis by lowering serotoin. But it can also sometimes reduce gut inflammation and increases the size of the lumen.