Fat Loss In Face From Aging

[Tumber]

For years I haven't looked my age. I used to look early 20s until I was 30 something. I'm 40 now and I definitely see that I've lost a significant amount of volume in the areas that signal an older looking face, e.g. nasolabial folds, crows feet, tear troughs, etc. I seem to lose fat in my face whenever I experience a lot of stress, but does anyone know the scientific reasons why fat in these areas disappears when we get older and never comes back?

Could transdermal progesterone applied to the face help? I've been putting on a drop of Progest-e for about a week and it has had a slight lifting effect maybe, but I'm not sure much of it is getting through the skin since it has a molar mass of 314.46 g/mol. I'm considering buying some dmso to help with that. Is there any other supplement or technique that might be worth trying?

 

[tara]

I've been putting on a drop of Progest-e for about a week and it has had a slight lifting effect maybe, but I'm not sure much of it is getting through the skin since it has a molar mass of 314.46 g/mol.

I can't speak to it's effect on fat in face, but Peat has suggesting aiding transdermal absorption of progesterone in vit E by applying a few drops of olive oil to the skin first.

 

[Tumber]

Thanks tara, I'll check it out.

 

[Tumber]

Do tocopherols induce adipocyte differentiation? It looks like tocotrienols inhibit it.

 

[marikay]

Hi. ProgestE directly under my eyes makes a huge difference. But Ray once told me that pregnenolone has a facelift type of action on the muscles of the face and taking pregnenolone has given me the best skin I've ever had. I'm 55 and could easily pass for someone in her late 30's. I take the pregnenolone orally though. I've never used it on my face directly.

 

[Tumber]

That's impressive! My own face is a little short of 10 years younger than 40. I'll buy some Pansterone and see how it goes. Put it on somewhere other than my face.

After researching a bit on transdermals I think a product called Phlojel Ultra would be good. It's a lecithin based product so my guess is that it doesn't have a fat burning effect.

 

[Peata]

Hi. ProgestE directly under my eyes makes a huge difference. But Ray once told me that pregnenolone has a facelift type of action on the muscles of the face and taking pregnenolone has given me the best skin I've ever had. I'm 55 and could easily pass for someone in her late 30's. I take the pregnenolone orally though. I've never used it on my face directly.

Hi Marikay, how much preg. do you take each day?

 

[marikay]

Hi Marikay, how much preg. do you take each day?

Usually 100mgs, but sometimes I take 300 to 400mgs at one time and then wait a week to take it again. Ray has said that once a week is fine and that there really is no upper limit (except for cost) on how much you can take. The combination of pregnenolone and progesterone has been nothing short of miraculous for me as far as skin, hair, and eyes are concerned. I take them both orally though so, as I said in the post above, it might work differently if you take it topically. I don't usually take a break from pregnenolone but I do take a two week break on progesterone after using the ProgestE for two weeks. (Two weeks on, two weeks off). Hope this helps. Cheers.

 

[Peata]

Usually 100mgs, but sometimes I take 300 to 400mgs at one time and then wait a week to take it again. Ray has said that once a week is fine and that there really is no upper limit (except for cost) on how much you can take. The combination of pregnenolone and progesterone has been nothing short of miraculous for me as far as skin, hair, and eyes are concerned. I take them both orally though so, as I said in the post above, it might work differently if you take it topically. I don't usually take a break from pregnenolone but I do take a two week break on progesterone after using the ProgestE for two weeks. (Two weeks on, two weeks off). Hope this helps. Cheers.

Thanks for your reply. One more question, how many drops of Progest E each day?

 

[marikay]

Thanks for your reply. One more question, how many drops of Progest E each day?

Two or three drops in the morning, and two or three drops in the evening (twelve hours apart).

 

[Peata]

Two or three drops in the morning, and two or three drops in the evening (twelve hours apart).

Thanks again. I should have known I would have more questions. If it's not too much trouble. I just want to get a better idea of your regimen as a place to start for my own issues. I appreciate your replies.

So, you take orally 2 -3 drops Progest E 2 x day. You do this for two weeks each month. How are you timing it during your cycle?

And use some Progest E under your eyes.... for a while I was using some Progest E all over my face but didn't see much difference so I gave it up.I 'm starting to make a skincare regimen with SolBan (niacinamide, caffeine, aspirin) and thinking of what else to layer since it's a drying spray.

I was wondering what else you use on your skin/what order/etc?

Pregnenolone orally, usually 100 mg day. Do you take this every day without any day off?
How do you know when you want to take the higher dose and go a week til next dose?
You don't experience any type of withdrawal symptom when you don't take it?

Last, what sort of diet/foods do you eat or avoid?

Sorry for so many questions, and if you don't want to answer I understand.

 

[paymanz]

I think biotin also can help for that.

 

[Tumber]

I think biotin also can help for that.

Thanks paymanz. Although... it looks like it might do the opposite The hypotriglyceridemic effect of biotin supplementation involves increased levels of cGMP and AMPK activation. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[marikay]

Thanks again. I should have known I would have more questions. If it's not too much trouble. I just want to get a better idea of your regimen as a place to start for my own issues. I appreciate your replies.

So, you take orally 2 -3 drops Progest E 2 x day. You do this for two weeks each month. How are you timing it during your cycle?

And use some Progest E under your eyes.... for a while I was using some Progest E all over my face but didn't see much difference so I gave it up.I 'm starting to make a skincare regimen with SolBan (niacinamide, caffeine, aspirin) and thinking of what else to layer since it's a drying spray.

I was wondering what else you use on your skin/what order/etc?

Pregnenolone orally, usually 100 mg day. Do you take this every day without any day off?
How do you know when you want to take the higher dose and go a week til next dose?
You don't experience any type of withdrawal symptom when you don't take it?

Last, what sort of diet/foods do you eat or avoid?

Sorry for so many questions, and if you don't want to answer I understand.

Hi Peata.

Here are the answers (as best as I can provide) to your questions:

I am in menopause so I don't have to time to a cycle. But I do the two weeks on two weeks off cycle in order to mimic the progesterone cycle of someone who isn't in menopause. Ray says the ProgestE should last about 12 hours, so that is why I do the twice a day regimen. I have seen signs that I may actually be coming back out of menopause since following Ray's advice. I'll let the forum know if this actually happens.:)

I used the ProgestE under my eyes for a brief time when I first started using it. It made the dark circles under my eyes go away pretty much immediately. I don't use the ProgestE under my eyes anymore because I no longer have any dark circles, ever.

I don't use anything on my face, no lotion, no makeup, no soap or any other type of cleanser. I splash warm water on my face while in the shower (and sometimes after brushing my teeth with baking soda) and that's it. I don't use sunscreen or wear sunglasses. If I am going to be in the direct sunlight for many hours I wear a baseball cap or a hat. Sometimes I use a homemade saline solution (distilled water and non-iodized salt) for eyedrops. ProgestE makes a great lip balm if my lips are dry. I do not need moisturizer, but if I ever do I will use refined olive oil since there is no smell and it is less heavy than coconut oil.

My skin is fair and my eyes are blue. My hair, before it started to grey, was black. I don't mind the silver in my hair but I don't like my eyebrows (which are thick like Elizabeth Taylor's) to look so pale. So I use a small amount of semi-permanent hair dye in the shade of blue-black to tint my eyebrows and my eyelashes. The effect this brings with my fair skin and blue eyes is, if I may say so myself, pretty stunning. I do not use mascara.

The ProgestE has done a good job keeping any facial, or otherwise unwanted, hair at bay. Since I have the fair skin though I do occasionally use cream bleach on my arms and face from time to time. I do shave my legs and underarms using only Ivory soap as a shaving cream. Even this little bit of soap is probably not optimal from a Peat perspective, but it's summertime and I live in Southern California, so it's a necessary evil.

The last time I was on the upper East side of Manhattan where the uber rich ladies live I was stopped at least a dozen times on the street and in the shops and asked who my dermatologist is. I gave out Rays website address and the name of this forum. I do not know if anyone actually visited either site, but I suspect it is only a matter of time before the jig is up for the cosmetic industry.

I use a highly diluted cup of shampoo once a week or so in the summertime to keep the oil from my scalp from getting out of hand. Otherwise I do get my hair wet every couple of days to make sure any dust or dirt gets rinsed out. I don't blow it dry. Most importantly, I try not to think about all the time and money I have wasted over the years on makeup, shampoo, hair rollers, etc…)

In the summer I get a lot of vitamin D from the sun. So sometimes I take some vitamin A to keep my skin from getting oily. I do not need to do this in the wintertime.

I have run out of pregnenolone from time to time and had to go without it for a few weeks. There were no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. The same with progesterone.

I like taking the pregnenolone once a week but it is easier for me to remember if I take it once a day. It doesn't matter whether you take the pregnenolone daily or weekly. I just do it weekly when I feel like mixing up my routine. I normally do not take anytime off from the pregnenolone (unless I run out). I started taking pregnenolone to be able to sleep through the night, the benefits to my skin were a bonus. I don't think it matters when you take the pregnenolone or how much you take at one time.

As for diet, I try to follow the Peat advice as best I can. Getting 100 grams of protein is much harder than avoiding PUFA's in my experience. I also have a hard time holding on to minerals, especially sodium, so I have to add salt to everything, and occasionally take 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda. I also use the magnesium water, mentioned on this forum, with OJ. And I take Epsom salt baths a few times a week.

I keep some vitamin E capsules in my medicine cabinet to take whenever I cannot avoid the PUFA's in restaurant food. I have cured myself of my pasta cravings and I make sure to take an aspirin whenever i give in to the temptation to have a slice of New York style pizza. People in Southern California can't seem to resist putting avocados on everything. So that's another challenge.

And finally, sugar is better than beauty rest. But if you can get both, then you're golden.

I hope this answers most of your questions. I'll answer more if you have them.

Cheers,

marikay

 

[paymanz]

Thanks paymanz. Although... it looks like it might do the opposite The hypotriglyceridemic effect of biotin supplementation involves increased levels of cGMP and AMPK activation. - PubMed - NCBI

I don't know these things are complicated.the reason I suggested biotin is because of its rule in acetyl-coa caroxylase.

 

[SQu]

I look at least 10 years younger than 52 and have a similar approach and results as @marikay. I'm very fair skinned in a very sunny year round climate. I have next to no wrinkles. I make a point of getting daily sun for vit d around noon and in and out of it all day. The only time I didn't like my skin was after long term low carbing and crash dieting when it went pasty and I got those nasolabial folds, sort of collapsing skin, completely reversed now. People I know who've aged much faster, have kept very slim with dieting, eat conventional ideas of health food, like pufas, nuts, seeds, salads, soya, sometimes vegetarian. Some do a lot of exercise. Some drink wine rather than eat and keep slim that way. Yes to lowering stress hormones, in my opinion.

 

[marikay]

I look at least 10 years younger than 52 and have a similar approach and results as @marikay. I'm very fair skinned in a very sunny year round climate. I have next to no wrinkles. I make a point of getting daily sun for vit d around noon and in and out of it all day. The only time I didn't like my skin was after long term low carbing and crash dieting when it went pasty and I got those nasolabial folds, sort of collapsing skin, completely reversed now. People I know who've aged much faster, have kept very slim with dieting, eat conventional ideas of health food, like pufas, nuts, seeds, salads, soya, sometimes vegetarian. Some do a lot of exercise. Some drink wine rather than eat and keep slim that way. Yes to lowering stress hormones, in my opinion.

My skin looked its worst when I was running marathons and drinking while I was training. Double bad. I felt OK but I looked like nuclear winter:) And then I followed that up with a year of strict vegetarianism. If anyone is living proof that the Ray Peat way can reverse damage to one's beauty, I guess it's us. Cheers.

 

[SQu]

Very valid points. I have a pet theory, having known many, that often slim women with very aged skin use wine for calories and feel-good, skip meals that way/ or exercise tons. I think it's very common, goes unnoticed because they function, and as we all know, skinny equals healthy, responsible etc, so no red flags are raised.

 

[marikay]

Very valid points. I have a pet theory, having known many, that often slim women with very aged skin use wine for calories and feel-good, skip meals that way/ or exercise tons. I think it's very common, goes unnoticed because they function, and as we all know, skinny equals healthy, responsible etc, so no red flags are raised.

I think you are right. In L.A. it's called the liquid dinner (and lunch:)) White wine seems to be the preferred type. A nutritionist once told me that white wine slows down digestion, so that might be one reason white wine is consumed more than red wine is in these parts.

And I knew some models in New York who lived (if you can call that living) on champagne, cocaine, and cigarettes.

There has long been a saying among actresses that as you age you must choose….face or fanny.

Those who choose face (ala Elizabeth Taylor and Zsa Zsa Gabor) have wrinkle-free faces but are overweight. Those who choose fanny (ala Nancy Reagan and many actresses today) have slender figures but faces that look wrinkled, drawn, and even brittle.

This is why Ray is such a godsend. It really is possible to keep a slender (though not skinny) figure and still have a youthful looking face.

 

[marikay]

That's impressive! My own face is a little short of 10 years younger than 40. I'll buy some Pansterone and see how it goes. Put it on somewhere other than my face.

After researching a bit on transdermals I think a product called Phlojel Ultra would be good. It's a lecithin based product so my guess is that it doesn't have a fat burning effect.

I think lecithin is a no-no in Ray Peat land, you might be better off using a base of olive oil or something with saturated fat in it.

I also thought I should mention that I only used ProgestE under my eyes for a brief time. As I began to follow Ray's advice more closely, the circles under my eyes went away completely and they have never come back. Nowadays I use the ProgestE internally.