Fat Is An Organ

[morgan#1]

Did they test the hormone markers involved. THAT would be interesting.

 

[Cirion]

I get that being fat is a mechanism to keep us alive, but its simply not optimal and pretending that it is is folly. I am fat myself but I make no bones about it, I have to lose the fat to get well ultimately. Now of course I don't plan to harshly cut calories to do so. The difference between my view and mainstream view is that getting rid of the fat is not the ONLY thing you should do, but its definitely ONE thing you must do to have an optimal metabolism. Here are just a few things fat does for you, certainly not an exhaustive list. Sure some of this can happen in a lean person too but its guaranteed (almost) in a fat person.

-- Destroys your androgen levels -> most testosterone converts to estrogens
-- Inability to digest foods
-- Dramatic production of reverse T3
-- Inability to perform even basic functions of life without completely being out of breath, high heart rate, fatigued from basic exercise
-- Increases lactic acid dramatically
-- Exaggerated response to stressors
-- Promotes further fat gain from the decreased androgen levels, which promotes further stress, more lactic acid, less CO2, etc., a vicious cycle
-- Prevents production of CO2
-- Increases Free Fatty Acids in the bloodstream dramatically
-- Increases protein turnover dramatically in the body, putting your body in a constant catabolic state, flooding your body with the poisonous amino acids cysteine and tryptophan
-- Induces insulin resistance / diabetes
-- Reduces the bodys ability to fight off harmful bacteria, flooding your gut with bacteria that literally eats the food you eat, making it so you can't absorb food you eat, and increasing serotonin through the roof as well
-- Induces sleep apnea, which prevents restful sleep, which further increases all of the problems on this list
-- Increases adrenaline/cortisol levels dramatically
-- Increases turnover rate of vitamins/minerals dramatically making it effectively impossible to keep vitamin/mineral stores up
-- Decreases glucose storage ability (which makes staying well fed even harder)
-- Lowers body temperature, induces depression, lethargy, lack of motivation, brain fog, lowers libido
-- Once fat, the body holds on to body fat like a pound of raw diamonds, which means you're stuck with all of time without exotic approaches

I am not at all advocating for fattism or fat shaming, especially since I myself am fat. But I make no pretentions about it, like I say, being fat is simply not ideal and not conducive to optimal health. Once you are fat it is very hard to remove it, so it is best to not get fat in the first place.

I will agree that environmental stressors, insufficient foods yes too, starvation etc is not good. But here's the problem. The body is not good at reversing stress. Once the stress is built up, once you're fat, you're basically screwed, unless you can turn stress to zero--, shut it off completely. I also am not saying the fat is the only problem, but it's a big problem. I have been unwell while lean so yes, being lean isn't everything. But being huge means a lot of extra added problems. Just being huge is literally a stressor in-and-of-itself regardless of if you're well fed or whatever because even once you start eating food again you can't digest it, you can't produce CO2, you don't produce T3, you don't produce testosterone, you don't get restful sleep even when sleeping 12 hrs, your adrenaline is sky high even when well fed, glucose storage is trash, you feel horrible because FFA's are sky high, it's just bad.

 

[morgan#1]

My sister was 20 pounds overweight and now she’s 40 pounds overweight. She eats a shi tton, and I think there is something protective about being obese. She probably has 4,000 calories daily, maybe more. Just guessing, she’s a gluttonous person. She has 5 of everything. Probably has 5 toothbrushes.

I don’t think that finding her set point means anything to her anymore. She probably thinks it’s a lost cause. With this monetary society she’s doing a ok. That is primary. I asked her once if she could have health OR wealth which would she choose. You know the rest. Sad state.

Anyhow, I think there is more about being obese, psychologically, than finding your set point and punching up the calories.

 

[mbachiu]

My sister was 20 pounds overweight and now she’s 40 pounds overweight. She eats a shi tton, and I think there is something protective about being obese. She probably has 4,000 calories daily, maybe more. Just guessing, she’s a gluttonous person. She has 5 of everything. Probably has 5 toothbrushes.

I don’t think that finding her set point means anything to her anymore. She probably thinks it’s a lost cause. With this monetary society she’s doing a ok. That is primary. I asked her once if she could have health OR wealth which would she choose. You know the rest. Sad state.

Anyhow, I think there is more about being obese, psychologically, than finding your set point and punching up the calories.

I eat about 4000 calories a day & I don’t think I’m a glutton...

 

[CLASH]

@Cirion
You sure all of that is from the fat and not from the trigger of the fat gain itself?

I disagree, the body is great at reversing stress. If it doesnt seem like its working its because its not and your still under the stress lol... I dont think it means your screwed and I dont think stress needs to be zero. There will never be zero stress... I think in your specific case the interpretations of Peat that you hold as axioms are wrong and therefore you continue to spin your wheels. Essentially what your doing doesnt seem to be working, atleast based on your posts.

I have been waiting to see how long before you come to this realization, but you seem to have an excellent ability to rationalize.

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion
You sure all of that is from the fat and not from the trigger of the fat gain itself?

I disagree, the body is great at reversing stress. If it doesnt seem like its working its because its not and your still under the stress lol... I dont think it means your screwed and I dont think stress needs to be zero. There will never be zero stress... I think in your specific case the interpretations of Peat that you hold as axioms are wrong and therefore you continue to spin your wheels. Essentially what your doing doesnt seem to be working, atleast based on your posts.

I have been waiting to see how long before you come to this realization, but you seem to have an excellent ability to rationalize.

Actually, I lost 10 lbs the last 2 months so I have actually made some progress. Unfortunately, 10 lb further was what I gained "eating everything full abandon Gywneth Olwyn style" a few months ago so I'm literally back to square one again, this is why I preach against this method so heavily as it doesn't work. Luckily, I had the wisdom to cut that experiment short very quickly but the damage was done. Hoping the next month or two to make actual headway as I continue my strategies. One does not just lose 80 lb overnight, so losing another 70 lb will take time, even when it's working right. I need to lose 10-20 lbs further then I can say progress is really happening in earnest (will put me into 2018 levels of weight finally).

Also, my method is not an interpretation of Peat BTW. At face value it may seem that way, but I use a far more powerful method - Experiment. Experiment trumps everything and everyone, Ray Peat Included. It just so happens, that my experiments have proven Peat right on almost everything. If my experiment showed that eating PUFA increased my metabolism and boosted weight loss, better believe I'd do it in a heartbeat (hint-- it doesn't =P)

 

[CLASH]

@Cirion
Your a guy in your 30s, no?

I think you can lose most if not all your weight pretty quickly and get muscular in the process, especially because you mentioned that you have already lifted in the past.

EDIT: you can do this in a healthy way. No crash diets, or crazy methods.

 

[Noodlz2]

Fat seems like damage control, like many of you have stated.

In my experience, fat grows if your sleep is chronically poor, even at subconscious levels (and starts going away as soon as sleep becomes comfortable). Good sleep is tied to relaxed and plentiful breathing at night (for me). Things that can prevent that type of breathing include; car exhaust, road/tire byproducts, smoke, air fresheners, detergent, other chemicals (dryer sheets), candles, mold, paint smells (even very subtle ones), strong carpet smells, too much light, and an unfirm bed. Without those factors, and with a reasonably supportive diet, sleep is good, and fat goes away.

A sign for me that my sleeping environment is good is when my face and scalp relax involuntarily, into what is basically a smile.

 

[Noodlz2]

Not to mention, a lack of air can result in less than ideal sleep. I sleep better with my face above the covers instead of under them, and I sleep even better with the window open a crack.

 

[methylenewhite]

I haven't read the paper yet but that second link sounds like fat acceptance social justice warrior nonsense

Agreed.

I was obese since my childhood. I'm from fat family. We all were 120+ kg. And this kind of thinking and accepting obesity as someone's natural state is a mental poison. As soon a person with "overdeveloped endocrine organ" gets into this acceptance weight starts to balloon. They start to eat like no tomorrow. You can call me masochist but Im actually greatful to people who were bullying me for being obese. Bullying is what pushed me out off "it's ok to be fat" mindset. I'm managed to shrink myself from 120 to 65 kg. And I was skinny fat almost zero muscle mass. You ask me how? I'll be honest with you. Mostly amphetamines+psy-trance parties. Don't repeat it, I ****88 myself health wise

 

[morgan#1]

I eat about 4000 calories a day & I don’t think I’m a glutton...

You’re not my sister. I’ve pushed up to 3,500, and I’m not gluttonous. Don’t take it so personal.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Poor people are very stressed. They always have been.

Rich people in the Western world have choices and do not have to be overly stressed.

Dr. Peat once said a BMI of 28 or 30 was most protective. There are numerous studies showing this to be true. The fat paradox has been talked down by people but bottom line is it actually valid.

What Dr. Peat has said about longevity is important. It is the calories consumed per gram of lean mass that should be as high as possible, to live as long as possible.

If you are fat and have a high metabolism you are probably going to be very healthy and live a long time.

Excessive fat goes along with stress hormones and the body’s dropping BMR in order to “survive” because burning fat is linked to starvation in the body and causes starvation mode to kick in, I believe. People make it worse by missing meals and consuming PUFAs that release in the bloodstream, poisoning sensitive beta and Leydig cells and the spleen.

However, if you raise your BMR and avoid PUFA fats, you could be fat and healthy with no problem at all.

 

[morgan#1]

I have been waiting to see how long before you come to this realization, but you seem to have an excellent ability to rationalize.

I agree. Maybe you (Cirion) should listen more, I worry about the newbies on here, reading him, not realizing this. I think that Cirion has a grasp of how it all works, but better to listen, and ask for help, and then talk when you’re better. My opinion, listen and you find (as I have) your mind alters.

 

[somuch4food]

Poor people are very stressed. They always have been.

Rich people in the Western world have choices and do not have to be overly stressed.

Dr. Peat once said a BMI of 28 or 30 was most protective. There are numerous studies showing this to be true. The fat paradox has been talked down by people but bottom line is it actually valid.

What Dr. Peat has said about longevity is important. It is the calories consumed per gram of lean mass that should be as high as possible, to live as long as possible.

If you are fat and have a high metabolism you are probably going to be very healthy and live a long time.

Excessive fat goes along with stress hormones and the body’s dropping BMR in order to “survive” because burning fat is linked to starvation in the body and causes starvation mode to kick in, I believe. People make it worse by missing meals and consuming PUFAs that release in the bloodstream, poisoning sensitive beta and Leydig cells and the spleen.

However, if you raise your BMR and avoid PUFA fats, you could be fat and healthy with no problem at all.

I tend to agree. You can't blame everything on fat. It's just one part of the equation.

There are days when I feel fat and other days I feel light on my feet despite being the same weight.

 

[GAF]

What is the water content of adipose tissue (AT)? I have looked around a little bit and cannot find a direct answer to the question. Here is a link to a 1962 article that claims water was 7 to 46% of AT.

Error - Cookies Turned Off (physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1113/expphysiol.1962.sp001589)

I don't believe people are "fat" because they have consumed 80 pounds of fat that is sitting on their butt or gut. It is impossible to eat that much fat. People gain weight and lose weight far to rapidly to eat that many pounds of fat.

It seems important to me to realize that AT is not pure fat cells but a mixture of water, fatty oily somethings, protein and who knows what. In observing chunky Americans these days, and dancing with many wide women for the last 14 years, these folks look and feel mushy. They feel like water baloons or some sort of hydrogel product.

My simple theory is that something like 90% of the increase in the size of AT is nothing but water storage spread out all over the body. It is very easy to consume fluids far in excess of the kidneys capacity to pee out or the body's ability to sweat, spit, blow or poop it out. Where does all this extra fluid go? It must go into the AT and sits there until someone turns off the fluid input. Food is mostly water, so even if a person never drinks a sip, they are still consuming copious amounts of fluid. Add onto that, a 64 oz Big Gulp (4 pounds) once or twice a day and boom, AT bloating is going to happen.

Most of the weight loss from dieting is reduced fluid input from both food and drink. When I eat too much, I have to wash it down with more drink, so there it is double whammy.

The health problems seemingly caused by hauling around all these gallons of AT bloatation are that many body processes are slowed down and operate inefficiently because AT is flooded with old water that is loaded with old toxins, proteins, waste products and other crud that needs to go.

Just my current theory...

btw...I am very dubious of the concept of "lipogenesis". Making oil from water seems very unlikely. They don't call them carbo "hydrates" because they turn into fat somehow. Someone once told me that oil and water don't mix.

 

[Kelj]

I get that being fat is a mechanism to keep us alive, but its simply not optimal and pretending that it is is folly. I am fat myself but I make no bones about it, I have to lose the fat to get well ultimately. Now of course I don't plan to harshly cut calories to do so. The difference between my view and mainstream view is that getting rid of the fat is not the ONLY thing you should do, but its definitely ONE thing you must do to have an optimal metabolism. Here are just a few things fat does for you, certainly not an exhaustive list. Sure some of this can happen in a lean person too but its guaranteed (almost) in a fat person.

-- Destroys your androgen levels -> most testosterone converts to estrogens
-- Inability to digest foods
-- Dramatic production of reverse T3
-- Inability to perform even basic functions of life without completely being out of breath, high heart rate, fatigued from basic exercise
-- Increases lactic acid dramatically
-- Exaggerated response to stressors
-- Promotes further fat gain from the decreased androgen levels, which promotes further stress, more lactic acid, less CO2, etc., a vicious cycle
-- Prevents production of CO2
-- Increases Free Fatty Acids in the bloodstream dramatically
-- Increases protein turnover dramatically in the body, putting your body in a constant catabolic state, flooding your body with the poisonous amino acids cysteine and tryptophan
-- Induces insulin resistance / diabetes
-- Reduces the bodys ability to fight off harmful bacteria, flooding your gut with bacteria that literally eats the food you eat, making it so you can't absorb food you eat, and increasing serotonin through the roof as well
-- Induces sleep apnea, which prevents restful sleep, which further increases all of the problems on this list
-- Increases adrenaline/cortisol levels dramatically
-- Increases turnover rate of vitamins/minerals dramatically making it effectively impossible to keep vitamin/mineral stores up
-- Decreases glucose storage ability (which makes staying well fed even harder)
-- Lowers body temperature, induces depression, lethargy, lack of motivation, brain fog, lowers libido
-- Once fat, the body holds on to body fat like a pound of raw diamonds, which means you're stuck with all of time without exotic approaches

I am not at all advocating for fattism or fat shaming, especially since I myself am fat. But I make no pretentions about it, like I say, being fat is simply not ideal and not conducive to optimal health. Once you are fat it is very hard to remove it, so it is best to not get fat in the first place.

I will agree that environmental stressors, insufficient foods yes too, starvation etc is not good. But here's the problem. The body is not good at reversing stress. Once the stress is built up, once you're fat, you're basically screwed, unless you can turn stress to zero--, shut it off completely. I also am not saying the fat is the only problem, but it's a big problem. I have been unwell while lean so yes, being lean isn't everything. But being huge means a lot of extra added problems. Just being huge is literally a stressor in-and-of-itself regardless of if you're well fed or whatever because even once you start eating food again you can't digest it, you can't produce CO2, you don't produce T3, you don't produce testosterone, you don't get restful sleep even when sleeping 12 hrs, your adrenaline is sky high even when well fed, glucose storage is trash, you feel horrible because FFA's are sky high, it's just bad.

The quotes from studies below address every point brought out in Cirion's comment above. These things are not caused by the obesity, with which they may or may not be occurring. All of those things are caused by, largely, calorie restriction and/or even just carb or protein restriction. If obesity is seen with those effects, it is because obesity is also caused by calorie restriction, usually of the restrictive/reactive variety, but because the body suppresses the metabolism in calorie restriction, even very low calorie intake can result in fat gain due to the body's ability to protect itself by enlarging, as was brought out in the article which began this thread. If a person is carrying EXCESS fat, it is due to one of two factors: undereating relative to energy needs or a temporary period during which a person's body is reacting to PAST restriction. You are only in the second category if you are no longer ever restricting.

Effect of short-term starvation on reproductive hormone gene expression, secretion and receptor levels in male rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of short-term starvation on reproductive hormone gene expression, secretion and receptor levels in male rats.

"Testicular and serum levels of testosterone decreased by 70-80%,"

https://jeb.biologists.org/content/220/23/4330

Learning to starve: impacts of food limitation beyond the stress period

"How do gut microbiota respond to repeated cycling of food availability? The role that the gut microbiome has on nutrition, immunity and even energy balance is being increasingly described (Turnbaugh et al., 2009; Nehra et al., 2016), and, given the recent improvements in sequencing technologies, additional crucial roles will soon be identified. Diet type as well as starvation have been shown to affect the microbiota community structure in several species (Carey et al., 2013; Kohl et al., 2014; Sonnenburg and Sonnenburg, 2014; Xia et al., 2014) – yet we have no idea how these communities respond to repeated starvation events, nor do we understand the physiological implications of such changes for the host animal. Recent studies that have replaced the gut microbiome of normal mice with communities from obese individuals caused mass gain, suggesting that shifts in the microbiome could allow increased retention of nutrient resources (Turnbaugh et al., 2008, 2009; Jayasinghe et al., 2016). Of interest is whether starvation bouts will alter components of the microbiome that protects against subsequent starvation by either slowing gut passage or maximizing digestion and nutrient uptake (i.e. promoting obese-like phenotypes)."

"The earliest scientific observations of animals subjected to repeated starvation events showed that they were consistently better able to defend against mass loss during subsequent bouts of starvation (Pashutin, 1902; Howe, 1910); but more recent studies show varied outcomes (Table 1). The most likely mechanisms that could account for reduced rates of mass loss include reduced resting metabolic rates (RMRs) and reduced activity levels. "

"Perhaps the most straightforward way to reduce RMR is to lower body temperature (Tb). "

"One of the most commonly documented responses during the refeeding phase is an increase in food conversion efficiency (FCE; this is similar to the concept of ‘digestive efficiency’ in some studies). FCE is expressed as ‘gain in body mass per unit (e.g. mass or energy) of food ingested’. Several studies have reported a doubling in FCE during refeeding in previously starved rats (Reed et al., 1988; Archambault et al., 1989; Ilagan et al., 1993; Munch et al., 1993). It is possible that FCE progressively increases with repeated exposure to food limitation."

Clearing up the Confusion about Reverse T3: Part 2. The Role of Reverse T3 in Thyroid Assessment | ZRT Laboratory

"Reverse T3 can be elevated in conditions associated with a reduction in the metabolic rate, notably starvation, extreme carbohydrate restriction,"

starvation acidosis

"starvation acidosis a metabolic acidosis due to accumulation of ketones following a severe caloric deficit......metabolic acidosis any of the types of acidosis resulting from accumulation in the blood of keto acids (derived from fat metabolism) at the expense of bicarbonate; this diminishes the body's ability to neutralize acids......lactic acidosis a metabolic acidosis occurring as a result of excess lactic acid in the blood, due to conditions causing impaired cell respiration.

Link between hunger and mood explained: The sudden drop in glucose we experience when we are hungry can impact our mood

"The study used rats to examine the impact on emotional behavior of a sudden drop in blood sugar. When the rats were given a glucose blocker, researchers found they had higher levels of cortisol. They also showed signs of stress and sluggish behavior similar to a poor mood. To prove the behavior wasn't just a lack of glucose to the muscles, researchers then gave them a common antidepressant and the behavior disappeared."

Hypocarbia - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

"At its root, hypocarbia is induced by either a decrease in CO2 production or an increase in CO2 loss.

Hypocarbia is a result of hyperventilation. Increased ventilation to the alveolar space quickly removes gaseous CO2.

many pathologies induce the respiratory change. These may include.....weight loss......"

Food Intake and Starvation Induce Metabolic Changes - Biochemistry - NCBI Bookshelf

"The metabolic changes on the first day of starvation are like those after an overnight fast. The low blood-sugar level leads to decreased secretion of insulin and increased secretion of glucagon. The dominant metabolic processes are the mobilization of triacylglycerols in adipose tissue and gluconeogenesis by the liver. The liver obtains energy for its own needs by oxidizing fatty acids released from adipose tissue. The concentrations of acetyl CoA and citrate consequently increase, which switches off glycolysis. The uptake of glucose by muscle is markedly diminished because of the low insulin level, whereas fatty acids enter freely. Consequently, muscle shifts almost entirely from glucose to fatty acids for fuel."

"Proteolysis also provides carbon skeletons for gluconeogenesis. During starvation, degraded proteins are not replenished and serve as carbon sources for glucose synthesis. Initial sources of protein are those that turn over rapidly, such as proteins of the intestinal epithelium and the secretions of the pancreas. Proteolysis of muscle protein provides some of three-carbon precursors of glucose. However, survival for most animals depends on being able to move rapidly, which requires a large muscle mass, and so muscle loss must be minimized."

Effect of starvation, malnutrition, and trauma on the gastrointestinal tract flora and bacterial translocation. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of starvation, malnutrition, and trauma on the gastrointestinal tract flora and bacterial translocation.

"viable indigenous bacteria will cross the intact gastrointestinal (GI) mucosa and spread systemically, a process termed bacterial translocation, if the normal bacterial ecology of the gut was sufficiently disrupted to allow bacterial overgrowth or if the animals were severely immunosuppressed. Starvation or protein malnutrition disrupts the normal indigenous GI tract microflora and impairs host antibacterial defenses. Consequently, we tested the effect of the combination of starvation or protein malnutrition"

"Sleep related eating disorder (SRED).....characterized by unconscious nighttime ingestion of food or non-food items.....
has been shown to be positively associated with obstructive sleep apnea.....morning anorexia, evening hyperphagia, and sleep disturbances.

Sleep-related eating disorder - Symptoms and causes

"Increased risk of developing sleep-related eating disorder is associated with: Having a daytime eating disorder, such as bulimia or anorexia."

Low Calorie Dieting Increases Cortisol

"Low Calorie Dieting Increases Cortisol"

https://www.sedig.org/physical-and-psychological-effects-of-the-starvation-syndrome

"As starvation proceeds losses of electrolytes such as calcium, potassium, sodium and magnesium occur. There will be marked loss of calcium from bones.....Low Sodium, low Potassium and sometimes low levels of other elements such as calcium magnesium are sometimes seen. Phosphate supplements may be needed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22414/

"The early fasting state. The blood-glucose level begins to drop several hours after a meal, leading to a decrease in insulin secretion and a rise in glucagon secretion; glucagon is secreted by the α cells of the pancreas in response to a low blood-sugar level in the fasting state. Just as insulin signals the fed state, glucagon signals the starved state. It serves to mobilize glycogen stores when there is no dietary intake of glucose. The main target organ of glucagon is the liver. Glucagon stimulates glycogen breakdown and inhibits glycogen synthesis by triggering the cyclic AMP cascade leading to the phosphorylation and activation of phosphorylase and the inhibition of glycogen synthase (Section 21.5). Glucagon also inhibits fatty acid synthesis by diminishing the production of pyruvate and by lowering the activity of acetyl CoA carboxylase by maintaining it in an unphosphorylated state. In addition, glucagon stimulates gluconeogenesis in the liver and blocks glycolysis by lowering the level of F-2,6-BP.

All known actions of glucagon are mediated by protein kinases that are activated by cyclic AMP. The activation of the cyclic AMP cascade results in a higher level of phosphorylase a activity and a lower level of glycogen synthase a activity. Glucagon's effect on this cascade is reinforced by the diminished binding of glucose to phosphorylase a, which makes the enzyme less susceptible to the hydrolytic action of the phosphatase. Instead, the phosphatase remains bound to phosphorylase a, and so the synthase stays in the in-active phosphorylated form. Consequently, there is a rapid mobilization of glycogen.

The large amount of glucose formed by the hydrolysis of glucose 6-phosphate derived from glycogen is then released from the liver into the blood. The entry of glucose into muscle and adipose tissue decreases in response to a low insulin level. The diminished utilization of glucose by muscle and adipose tissue also contributes to the maintenance of the bloodglucose level. The net result of these actions of glucagon is to markedly increase the release of glucose by the liver."

"Your body temperature is regulated by....hypothalamus....directs the thyroid gland to increase or decrease your body’s metabolism. The thyroid is a crucial part of this regulation. It has to be functioning properly to burn calories in the body to create heat and fuel....Cold intolerance may also be due to...anorexia."

https://www-psychologytoday-com.cdn...ry/201103/dieting-can-make-you-lose-your-mind

"daily calories during the semistarvation period was about 1600 calories a day.....They described lethargy, irritability, anxiety.....
dizziness, cold intolerance...muscle soreness, hair loss, reduced coordination, edema, and ringing in the ears.....Their sex drive disappeared......severe psychological stress"

 

[morgan#1]

If you type be bigger, does that make us understand it better?
I’m through with this thread.

 

[Kelj]

If you type be bigger, does that make us understand it better?

Just accidental.

 

[Blossom]

AT bloatation

Best new phrase I’ve read in a long time!!!

 

[mbachiu]

What is the water content of adipose tissue (AT)? I have looked around a little bit and cannot find a direct answer to the question. Here is a link to a 1962 article that claims water was 7 to 46% of AT.

Error - Cookies Turned Off (physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1113/expphysiol.1962.sp001589)

I don't believe people are "fat" because they have consumed 80 pounds of fat that is sitting on their butt or gut. It is impossible to eat that much fat. People gain weight and lose weight far to rapidly to eat that many pounds of fat.

It seems important to me to realize that AT is not pure fat cells but a mixture of water, fatty oily somethings, protein and who knows what. In observing chunky Americans these days, and dancing with many wide women for the last 14 years, these folks look and feel mushy. They feel like water baloons or some sort of hydrogel product.

My simple theory is that something like 90% of the increase in the size of AT is nothing but water storage spread out all over the body. It is very easy to consume fluids far in excess of the kidneys capacity to pee out or the body's ability to sweat, spit, blow or poop it out. Where does all this extra fluid go? It must go into the AT and sits there until someone turns off the fluid input. Food is mostly water, so even if a person never drinks a sip, they are still consuming copious amounts of fluid. Add onto that, a 64 oz Big Gulp (4 pounds) once or twice a day and boom, AT bloating is going to happen.

Most of the weight loss from dieting is reduced fluid input from both food and drink. When I eat too much, I have to wash it down with more drink, so there it is double whammy.

The health problems seemingly caused by hauling around all these gallons of AT bloatation are that many body processes are slowed down and operate inefficiently because AT is flooded with old water that is loaded with old toxins, proteins, waste products and other crud that needs to go.

Just my current theory...

btw...I am very dubious of the concept of "lipogenesis". Making oil from water seems very unlikely. They don't call them carbo "hydrates" because they turn into fat somehow. Someone once told me that oil and water don't mix.

Nathan Hatch thinks that excessive fat on a person is like a camel’s lump & is a way to retain a lot of water...