FASTing——some Strong Points(I Think)

Viiiiyu

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
15
1.Fsating is the only way you figure out if you are hungry or just need a mood-lift.
——Even there is not a peat-diet but following rays ideas still would make someone fall into the"diet mentality",where you would be constantly obsessed with food that your quality of life is decreased by it.So you just go into a vicious cycle of blaming everything on food and trying to fix everything with food.

2.A healthy body should be able to fast.
——Therefore whatever you do so that you can fast for 16-20hrs is the right choice.(Impeccable Logic!!)

3.GI track at rest is the body's most effective mode.
——Ray talks about making the food easy to digest,makes me wonder:isn't not eating the fondamental way to make easy of your digestive system?Personally my mind&movement&sleep all do best when there's no food in my belly.

4.Fasting in steady-energy state.
——Fasting intensity should be between<Increasing insulin sensitivity>and<Becoming insulin resistent>.Your muscle will become insulin resistent so any sugar you ingest will be conserved for the brain which is the strong sign that you have fasted for too long and which sign would not come early if you have not ignored many warning signs before like low blood sugar.

5.Eating to absolute satiety will result in a fast.
——Ray talks about do what makes you happy.Well binging is what makes everyone happy,and if your food choice is good your wont be taxed or screwed only just feeling not eating for some time.

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J

jb116

Guest
1.Fsating is the only way you figure out if you are hungry or just need a mood-lift.
——Even there is not a peat-diet but following rays ideas still would make someone fall into the"diet mentality",where you would be constantly obsessed with food that your quality of life is decreased by it.So you just go into a vicious cycle of blaming everything on food and trying to fix everything with food.

The point of realizing the potential of good food is also to acknowledge that it is to be used for nutrition and/or de-stressing or "mood-lift."

2.A healthy body should be able to fast.
——Therefore whatever you do so that you can fast for 16-20hrs is the right choice.(Impeccable Logic!!)

There is no logic there because it is a non-sequitur. Being able to fast indicates a healthy body not that a healthy body should fast, as some hard and fast rule. Therefore if food was not available and you had to bear 16-20 hours of no eating, it wasn't the right choice, it was a fortunate disposition for an unfortunate situation.

3.GI track at rest is the body's most effective mode.
——Ray talks about making the food easy to digest,makes me wonder:isn't not eating the fondamental way to make easy of your digestive system?Personally my mind&movement&sleep all do best when there's no food in my belly.

Most effective mode for what??? If it isn't digesting, it isn't being effective since it isn't effectuating anything. Again, you misunderstand the logic. Ray does talk about food easy to digest because he is talking about the importance of eating and therefore the importance of easily digesting and assimilating that food for optimal nutrition. There is no logic in eat nothing because it is "easy to digest," because there is nothing to digest! If one needs to desperately reduce inflammation to figure out a strategy then it might make sense to take a break.

4.Fasting in steady-energy state.
——Fasting intensity should be between<Increasing insulin sensitivity>and<Becoming insulin resistent>.Your muscle will become insulin resistent so any sugar you ingest will be conserved for the brain which is the strong sign that you have fasted for too long and which sign would not come early if you have not ignored many warning signs before like low blood sugar.

This umm, just sounds like one should eat when blood sugar is low. So, yea.

5.Eating to absolute satiety will result in a fast.
——Ray talks about do what makes you happy.Well binging is what makes everyone happy,and if your food choice is good your wont be taxed or screwed only just feeling not eating for some time.

Yes, that is normal. I eat to satiety, then I don't eat until I am hungry again. I don't see the necessity to fit this simple paradigm into the category of "fasting."
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
2,985
Fasting is only beneficial if you are eating PUFA, iron, toxins or have poor digestion. If you are eating high quality milk and fruit and digesting it well then there's no benefit in fastimg.
 

raysputin

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Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,397
I just am a bit confused by all these fasting posts recently on this forum. In my opinion the utter misery and drudgery that has categorized most of human existence is the search for food and starvation. Many animals spend all day eating or searching for food. Maybe it isn’t the most logical defense for eating when you’re hungry, but I don’t see any logic in not eating when you are hungry.
 

Goobz

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Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
302
Location
Australia
The problem is people equate “fasting” with “caloric restriction”. They’re very different.

Periodic fasting is extremely healthy for most people. I won’t go into it all here but google Valter Longo.

“A periodic diet that mimics fasting promotes multi system regeneration, enhanced cognition and Healthspan”
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(15)00224-7

There is such a mountain of evidence piling up now on its benefits that it’s gradually seeping into this forum, despite Rays views on it.
 
J

jb116

Guest
The problem is people equate “fasting” with “caloric restriction”. They’re very different.

Periodic fasting is extremely healthy for most people. I won’t go into it all here but google Valter Longo.

“A periodic diet that mimics fasting promotes multi system regeneration, enhanced cognition and Healthspan”
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(15)00224-7

There is such a mountain of evidence piling up now on its benefits that it’s gradually seeping into this forum, despite Rays views on it.
And it has been shown that restriction of certain amino acids as well as endotoxin is the true benefit, not calorie restriction or fasting per say.
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
113
Nothing compares to fasting for weight loss but nearly every other quality of life facet deteriorates when I do it: sleep, libido, anxiety, charisma, empathy, patience, relaxation, creativity, etc
 

gaze

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,526
i guarantee fasting will make one more obsessive about food long term then simply eating a ray peat diet. caloric restriction is the ultimate way to make food the focus of your body because your body goes into a perpetual fear of not having enough food for a long time
 

Goobz

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Mar 2, 2019
Messages
302
Location
Australia
And it has been shown that restriction of certain amino acids as well as endotoxin is the true benefit, not calorie restriction or fasting per say.

No, that's not correct. Certain amino acid restriction mimics calorie restriction in terms of life extension etc, not cycles of fasting and refeeding. Cycles of fasting and refeeding are entirely different to calorie restriction. That's exactly the misunderstanding I'm talking about that's very common on this forum.

Whenever Ray talks about cortisol etc eating away at your skin, organs etc, he is absolutely correct that if it is maintained long term, these systems will deteriorate. But he fails to mention that if it's done in the context of a short fast, many of the tissues that are "eaten away" are in fact the damaged cells, and then they are selectively rebuilt with new, youthful cells via stem cell production, once the refeeding begins.

Once again, periodic fasting is not caloric restriction or amino acid restriction or anything like that. It has a completely different set of benefits, much more geared around selective tissue destruction and then, critically, rebuilding it when you refeed. If you just do caloric restriction, or methionine restriction, you never get the benefit of the rebuilding, which involves stem cells being turned on, immune system rejuvenation, etc. These benefits are not seen in amino acid restriction, caloric restriction, or any other long term diet.

It's all in the study I linked. Or once again, just google Valter Longo.
 
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