Fasting causes aging by energy depletion, vitamin B2 can stop it

[Dr. B]

Can't get access to the full study. Once it becomes available, I will edit the post and include the dosage.

how would you say it affects the levels of other b vitamins or even minerals, do you need to megadose the other b vitamins alongside b2. and I think Ray said b2 is the most allergenic/troublesome of the b vitamins to use as a supplement due to its sourcing problem? i think b2 and folate/folic acid were the ones with sourcing trouble

regarding AMPK i heard its boosted by aspirin and also strongly by berberine and other things, apparently its inversely related to mTor

 

[Kris]

Fasting in moderation is good for you. Another option is fruit fast where you don't stress your body too much.

 

[cupofcoffee]

I'd say the sweet spot is intermittent fasting. Assuming when one is eating they are eating high sugar, high carb, good quality protein and everything else, then I would say intermittent fasting would be that sweet spot you are asking about.

By thinking about it, i think that doing few 3-4 days fasts every one or two months + activating AMPK by other means (caffeine, exercise, aspirin, barberine, salt etc.) is better BUT i'm no expert so i could be wrong

 

[cupofcoffee]

This is accepted knowledge. Fasting and AMPK activation is beneficial and regenerating in cycles. Not permanently.

Same goes for mTOR activation.

yes agree

 

[Ritchie]

but

Intermittent fasting (IF) ineffective and may even be dangerous​

http://haidut.me/?p=1240

Yes but that study Haidut is referencing is very rudimentary. One, it focuses on weight loss as the goal. Two, it doesn't look at the quality of the diet of the individuals during the feeding window. Think of it this way, it could be stated that eating a high carb diet is bad for you, or eating a high fat diet is bad for you. Both statements could be true or false depending on the details. A diet high in pufa fats would be bad for you, in contrast one that is high in saturated and mono saturated could be good depending on the rest of the diet. Same goes for high carb, if one is eating alot of bread and pasta this may be the case, however if eating pure sugar, good fruits, potatoes and rice for example, that statement would be false. In other words those statements don't tell you anything without context and details, even if there are studies concluding it they would be missing the key point that what is of real import is the type of foods one is and isnt eating.
You have to look at the actual food being eaten, because obviously the body is going to respond differently depending on that.

Same goes for intermittent fasting, if the type of foods being eaten are high energy, metabolism promoting, thyroid supportive, muscle growth supportive and so on, then all the benefits of the fast will compliment this, rather than detract. However if one is eating a low carb/keto style diet outside of the fasting window, you can imagine this would lead to all sorts of problems.

 

[Ritchie]

By thinking about it, i think that doing few 3-4 days fasts every one or two months + activating AMPK by other means (caffeine, exercise, aspirin, barberine, salt etc.) is better BUT i'm no expert so i could be wrong

What makes you say that?

 

[rayban]

B2 sounds important and looks like I'm deficient.

Riboflavin (vitamin B2) and oxidative stress: a review | British Journal of Nutrition | Cambridge Core

Riboflavin (vitamin B2) and oxidative stress: a review - Volume 111 Issue 11

www.cambridge.org

How do you test for B2? do you just as for B2 in the lab for the bloodwork or do you need additional markers?

For instance, for B12 someone mentioned it's useless by itself without homocistein and holoTC

Also @haidut could you please help me with this tongue condition i've been dealing with for months? i've been taking pics almost daily:


View: https://imgur.com/a/wCXXwLn


Any ideas what could be causing these white spots/U shaped lines? they change in size sometimes the same day. It starts small, eventually grows and disappears. You can see the changes across the months. Sometimes it becomes red. On the bald spot I have on the edge between the "normal" tissue and the bald area it becomes red sometimes. The right side is cracked and has these white things that come and go. Mainstream diagnose is geographical tongue and no research is done to help. I have means to get any bloodwork I want, I just don't know what to do. Im desperate at this point to get my tongue looking normal.

Im using 75mg of Eutirox and a d3 supplement with 200UI and 75mcg k2 mk7. Some bloodworks (before I started vitaminD supplement, it was low not sure how it is nowadays):

Rate my bloodwork. What steps to improve?

Biochemical: Fasting glycemia: 89 mg/100ml. Range: 70 - 115 Vitamin D (25-OH): 20.2 ng/ml. Range: 30-1 - 100 Vitamin D (1,25): 27 pg/ml. Range: 25 - 66 (in range but low) Quantiative albumin: 4.2 g/100ml. Range: 3.80 - 5.10 Hormones: IGF-1: 149 ng/ml. Range: 100.00 - 591.00 Estradiol (E2)...

raypeatforum.com

The bloodworks are old at this point but since I don't know what to do I haven't bothered to get updated ones. Could someone help. I don't want to derrail the thread but at this point I dont care. Can someone tell me what the **** to do about my tongue please.

 

[cupofcoffee]

What makes you say that?

long (as in few days long) fasts are supposedly better at inducing autophagy, so i suppose (as an ignorant in the topic) getting these periods of acute deep autophagy is better than stressing your body with daily fasts (again, wether it's a stress to the body depends on many factors and it can be eased by eating the right food in your eating window as you mentioned) + some people might actually find it easier to outright fast for days than fasting daily (i read some anecdotal reports saying this)

 

[LLight]

I think dry fasting is superior to intermittent water fasting as it is easier to do once you get use to it. My longest dry fast was 63 hours, as soon as my lower back ached I broke the fast. I then began doing 1 24 hr dry fast per week and felt like I had plateaued. I now do 23hr Intermittent water fast with 16 hrs of it dry, 5 days a week. The dry fasting has defined my muscles and faded my wrinkles and strech marks. It takes a lot of mental strength going into the dry fast so the almost daily feels more comfortable. I started adding dry fasting into my regular intermittent water fasting 6 months ago and the physically results are astounding, I look 15years younger and my mental clarity and artistic ability have increased to levels I didn’t know existed in me. I recommend dry fasting but not without gathering as much information as possible first. Thank you for your post.

For the last 2 years I tried to heal my shoulders, but I didn't had any success. I took long pauses from the gym (the longest being 5 months) but the shoulders wouldn't heal. Fortunately I discovered dry fasting and two weeks ago I decided to do a 7 day dry fast, because my shoulders got too inflamed and I couldn't go to the gym anymore. During the dryfast, the shoulders felt like 95% healed. After ending the dryfast I noticed that the lower back pain dissapeared and the shoulders were ~85% healed.

I know it sounds insane but it’s either this or I cave and go get depression medication. I found out about fasting bc I had an episode and decided to Scide by not eating or drinking anything (partly was due to not having motivation to), I woke up after 2 days with insane energy and a powerful will to live, what’s weird is I had no troubles refeeding at that time.

I just finished a 4 days dry fast. I had two refeed meals and I'm still 5.5kg lighter. When I started my dry fast I had a horribly inflamed tooth and the gums around couldn't be touched because of the terrible pain. After the 4 days it was totally normal, not any pain whatsoever

I honestly have seen many testimonies about dry fasting curing things (there is even regular posters that can testify) like skin diseases, mental diseases, improving digestion and energy or even helping joint pain/degeneration.

It doesn't seem like it can be explained by the things which are usually used here to explain why fasting can help, like reduced PUFA consumption and endotoxins due to reduced food consumption.

Or is it cortisol that makes people heal?

 

[Ritchie]

long (as in few days long) fasts are supposedly better at inducing autophagy, so i suppose (as an ignorant in the topic) getting these periods of acute deep autophagy is better than stressing your body with daily fasts (again, wether it's a stress to the body depends on many factors and it can be eased by eating the right food in your eating window as you mentioned) + some people might actually find it easier to outright fast for days than fasting daily (i read some anecdotal reports saying this)

If we're going by perception based on experience, I have found long periods of fasting way more of a shock to the system, stressful and taxing on the body than short daily intermittent fasts accompanied by full spectrum nourishment in the eating window. Daily intermittent fasts when you're eating well is a breeze, and in fact seems metabolically stimulating as well as calming, rather than the opposite. If you're healthy, you're metabolism is working well and you're eating well you should have plenty of stored glycogen to be fine for that short fasting period. Then you reboost your sugar in the eating window, along with everything else. Seems to work very well.

 

[cupofcoffee]

If we're going by perception based on experience, I have found long periods of fasting way more of a shock to the system, stressful and taxing on the body than short daily intermittent fasts accompanied by full spectrum nourishment in the eating window. Daily intermittent fasts when you're eating well is a breeze, and in fact seems metabolically stimulating as well as calming, rather than the opposite. If you're healthy, you're metabolism is working well and you're eating well you should have plenty of stored glycogen to be fine for that short fasting period. Then you reboost your sugar in the eating window, along with everything else. Seems to work very well.

Thank you for sharing your experience man, makes sense

 

[Mauritio]

Coq10 also seems to act through AMPK ,at least when you look at this study. Inhibition of Coq10 removed all the benefits on liver health.
So the same might be true for vitamin K2 ! I recently asked peat on K2 and liver health and he said:

"Vitamin K supports the energetic effect of coenzyme Q10."

Coenzyme Q10 attenuates high-fat diet-induced non-alcoholic fatty liver disease through activation of the AMPK pathway - PubMed

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is a well-known anti-adipogenic factor that possesses the capability to regulate non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). However, the mechanism by which CoQ10 acts on NAFLD is still unclear. In this study, the role of CoQ10 in the prevention of NAFLD was investigated in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin K2 promotes PI3K/AKT/HIF-1α-mediated glycolysis that leads to AMPK-dependent autophagic cell death in bladder cancer cells - PubMed

Vitamin K2 has been shown to exert remarkable anticancer activity. However, the detailed mechanism remains unclear. Here, our study was the first to show that Vitamin K2 significantly promoted the glycolysis in bladder cancer cells by upregulating glucose consumption and lactate production...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[rayban]

Coq10 also seems to act through AMPK ,at least when you look at this study. Inhibition of Coq10 removed all the benefits on liver health.
So the same might be true for vitamin K2 ! I recently asked peat on K2 and liver health and he said:

"Vitamin K supports the energetic effect of coenzyme Q10."

Coenzyme Q10 attenuates high-fat diet-induced non-alcoholic fatty liver disease through activation of the AMPK pathway - PubMed

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is a well-known anti-adipogenic factor that possesses the capability to regulate non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). However, the mechanism by which CoQ10 acts on NAFLD is still unclear. In this study, the role of CoQ10 in the prevention of NAFLD was investigated in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Where do you contact RP? how likely it is to get an answer?

 

[youngsinatra]

Coq10 also seems to act through AMPK ,at least when you look at this study. Inhibition of Coq10 removed all the benefits on liver health.
So the same might be true for vitamin K2 ! I recently asked peat on K2 and liver health and he said:

"Vitamin K supports the energetic effect of coenzyme Q10."

Coenzyme Q10 attenuates high-fat diet-induced non-alcoholic fatty liver disease through activation of the AMPK pathway - PubMed

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is a well-known anti-adipogenic factor that possesses the capability to regulate non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). However, the mechanism by which CoQ10 acts on NAFLD is still unclear. In this study, the role of CoQ10 in the prevention of NAFLD was investigated in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin K2 promotes PI3K/AKT/HIF-1α-mediated glycolysis that leads to AMPK-dependent autophagic cell death in bladder cancer cells - PubMed

Vitamin K2 has been shown to exert remarkable anticancer activity. However, the detailed mechanism remains unclear. Here, our study was the first to show that Vitamin K2 significantly promoted the glycolysis in bladder cancer cells by upregulating glucose consumption and lactate production...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin K2 cannot substitute Coenzyme Q10 as electron carrier in the mitochondrial respiratory chain of mammalian cells - PubMed

Coenzyme Q₁₀ (CoQ₁₀) deficiencies are a group of heterogeneous conditions that respond to ubiquinone administration if treated soon after the onset of symptoms. However, this treatment is only partially effective due to its poor bioavailability. We tested whether vitamin...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mauritio]

Vitamin K2 cannot substitute Coenzyme Q10 as electron carrier in the mitochondrial respiratory chain of mammalian cells - PubMed

Coenzyme Q₁₀ (CoQ₁₀) deficiencies are a group of heterogeneous conditions that respond to ubiquinone administration if treated soon after the onset of symptoms. However, this treatment is only partially effective due to its poor bioavailability. We tested whether vitamin...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I've seen that. That will be one of my follow up questions.

 

[Aad]

Fasting is amazing.

 

[PolishSun]

Coq10 also seems to act through AMPK ,at least when you look at this study. Inhibition of Coq10 removed all the benefits on liver health.
So the same might be true for vitamin K2 ! I recently asked peat on K2 and liver health and he said:

"Vitamin K supports the energetic effect of coenzyme Q10."

Coenzyme Q10 attenuates high-fat diet-induced non-alcoholic fatty liver disease through activation of the AMPK pathway - PubMed

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is a well-known anti-adipogenic factor that possesses the capability to regulate non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). However, the mechanism by which CoQ10 acts on NAFLD is still unclear. In this study, the role of CoQ10 in the prevention of NAFLD was investigated in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin K2 promotes PI3K/AKT/HIF-1α-mediated glycolysis that leads to AMPK-dependent autophagic cell death in bladder cancer cells - PubMed

Vitamin K2 has been shown to exert remarkable anticancer activity. However, the detailed mechanism remains unclear. Here, our study was the first to show that Vitamin K2 significantly promoted the glycolysis in bladder cancer cells by upregulating glucose consumption and lactate production...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I cannot find which form of coenzyme Q10 is helpfull...

 

[Peatness]

Riboflavin Deficiency—Implications for General Human Health and Inborn Errors of Metabolism

As an essential vitamin, the role of riboflavin in human diet and health is increasingly being highlighted. Insufficient dietary intake of riboflavin is often reported in nutritional surveys and population studies, even in non-developing countries with ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[rayban]

I cannot find which form of coenzyme Q10 is helpfull...

any news on this? and what about k2, you have to take k2 with q10? wtf

 

[youngsinatra]

Hypothyroidism causes low FAD as the conversion steps from free riboflavin to FMN and FAD are thyroid-dependent. So even with sufficient intake of dietary riboflavin low FAD can show up. Maybe another hint on why fasting is detrimental to thyroid health.

Riboflavin metabolism in the hypothyroid human adult - PubMed

It had been shown that thyroxine regulates the conversion of riboflavin to riboflavin mononucleotide and flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) in laboratory animals. In the hypothyroid rat, the flavin adenine dinucleotide level of the liver decreases to levels observed in riboflavin deficiency. We...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov