Fast Metabolism - Low Co2?

[DannyIrons™]

This is my first time posting on this site and I'm looking for some sound advice regarding metabolism. I practice Buteyko and I can't seem to find many forums about Buteyko specifically, and a lot of Google Searches brings me to this site.

Basically I'm wondering if low CP is linked to a fast metabolism, all the focus today seems to be on slow metabolism and the obesity problem etc... I'm a 25 year old male who weights about 9 stone so very underweight - this obviously makes me feel self-conscious. I used to weight nearly 11 when I was just eating bad foods and lots of it. But now that I eat a healthy and plentiful diet my weight just dropped - I eat more than most people I know.

My morning Control Pause is about 6 seconds and I have dreadful sleep every night. I'm certain the low CP contributes to my poor sleep but I was wondering if this affects metabolism too?

Any help would be appreciated folks. Cheers.

 

[paymanz]

How long have you practiced buteyko?

I ask because what i understand is that there is some co2 receptors in body that can be adapted to various levels of co2 so with training buteyko your body gets used to higher levels of co2 over time, so you start to breath slower naturaly.

 

[DannyIrons™]

How long have you practiced buteyko?

I ask because what i understand is that there is some co2 receptors in body that can be adapted to various levels of co2 so with training buteyko your body gets used to higher levels of co2 over time, so you start to breath slower naturaly.

A few months on and off, I had an operation which didn't help, and it was going well until a few weeks ago where I caught the seasonal flu. I'm trying to do about an hour a day minimum. But I've got a 1-to-1 Sesh with a Buteyko instructor as I need a bit of guidance and to make sure I'm doing it correctly. Definitely struggling to get my CP up though and very frustrating. My weight just seems to default to 9 stone which is odd, it doesn't shoot much underneath but I can't raise it at all.

 

[paymanz]

A few months on and off, I had an operation which didn't help, and it was going well until a few weeks ago where I caught the seasonal flu. I'm trying to do about an hour a day minimum. But I've got a 1-to-1 Sesh with a Buteyko instructor as I need a bit of guidance and to make sure I'm doing it correctly. Definitely struggling to get my CP up though and very frustrating. My weight just seems to default to 9 stone which is odd, it doesn't shoot much underneath but I can't raise it at all.

Maybe you have high stress hormones,adrenaline ,cortisol.

They also cause hyperventilation.

 

[DannyIrons™]

I understand my cause of hyperventilation - I've had asthma/allergies all my life and so have breathed heavily through my mouth. It's my metabolism and weight loss I don't understand.

 

[paymanz]

High stress hormones can cause weight loss!

 

[DannyIrons™]

High stress hormones can cause weight loss!

But surely large people also have high stress hormones too, yet they're still overweight

 

[biffbelvin]

Do you count calories? It may be that you're not eating enough, that you're filling up on low density food.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Do you count calories? It may be that you're not eating enough, that you're filling up on low density food.

I don't calorie count but I can safely rule out that I don't eat enough, as an example - I have a big bowl of oats every morning with fruit, for lunch I might have a large chickpea and avocado/tuna salad or a black bean chili with brown rice (big portions) and then maybe 3 jacket potatoes with fish/chicken and vegetables for tea, or a beef stew something like that.

 

[Prosper]

I don't calorie count but I can safely rule out that I don't eat enough, as an example - I have a big bowl of oats every morning with fruit, for lunch I might have a large chickpea and avocado/tuna salad or a black bean chili with brown rice (big portions) and then maybe 3 jacket potatoes with fish/chicken and vegetables for tea, or a beef stew something like that.

That sounds 1500-2000 calories. Peat is like 80 and eats double of that every day. Track your food intake for a week or two so you can get a good general picture of how much you are actually consuming. Cronometer.com makes the process very effortless.

Consider increasing fat and experimenting with additional salt. Both will help you eat more and sleep more restfully. Some people don't feel good without 10 grams or more salt per day.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Thanks for the advice guys. However I still don't believe the fact I'm 9 stone as a 25 year old is due to under-eating. I eat much more than most people I know and they are not underweight, the above was only an example, the chili I have can be filled to the top of a 2-litre lunch container. I also consume plentiful amounts of sea salt.

Considering my CO2 measurement is well below the norm I'm confident that there must be a link. I also have +4 Enterobacter dysbiotic proliferation and +1 Lactobaccilus and low Butyrate Acid levels which could also be a contribution. However I eat well and take care of my digestion so a metabolic issue seems to be the only logical conclusion, but I can't prove this, until I raise my Control Pause anyhow.

 

[Prosper]

Thanks for the advice guys. However I still don't believe the fact I'm 9 stone as a 25 year old is due to under-eating. I eat much more than most people I know and they are not underweight, the above was only an example, the chili I have can be filled to the top of a 2-litre lunch container. I also consume plentiful amounts of sea salt.

Considering my CO2 measurement is well below the norm I'm confident that there must be a link. I also have +4 Enterobacter dysbiotic proliferation and +1 Lactobaccilus and low Butyrate Acid levels which could also be a contribution. However I eat well and take care of my digestion so a metabolic issue seems to be the only logical conclusion, but I can't prove this, until I raise my Control Pause anyhow.

9 stones is 57 kg / 125 lbs. It is anorexia-tier for any regular sized male. Track your calories. Increase them until you begin to gain weight. Only that way can you estimate how much you require for maintenance.

People with weight problems have the tendency to either severely overestimate or underestimate how much they eat. Bodybuilding forums are filled with twigs who claim to be eating more than anyone else without gaining fat or muscle.

 

[DannyIrons™]

9 stones is 57 kg / 125 lbs. It is anorexia-tier for any regular sized male. Track your calories. Increase them until you begin to gain weight. Only that way can you estimate how much you require for maintenance.

People with weight problems have the tendency to either severely overestimate or underestimate how much they eat. Bodybuilding forums are filled with twigs who claim to be eating more than anyone else without gaining fat or muscle.

When I had a foot operation a couple of months back I counted that I was eating at least 3000-3500 calories a day. With my only exercise all day being getting up to go to the bathroom. I didn’t gain a single pound.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Have you had a blood thyroid panel?

 

[DannyIrons™]

Have you had a blood thyroid panel?

I've had a CSAx3 w/parasitology which revealed a lot of dysbiotic bacteria. I also did a Testosterone test about 3 years ago which came back as 10.3 nmol/L which my GP at the time said was normal for a 22 year old male - although I thought it seemed low.

But I've never done a blood thyroid panel, what's the connection between thyroid and metabolism? Please forgive me I'm ignorant in this area so I don't know much about the thyroid. I also get very cold hands and feet, which I heard was linked to thyroid problems?

Thanks

 

[Lurker]

I've had a CSAx3 w/parasitology which revealed a lot of dysbiotic bacteria. I also did a Testosterone test about 3 years ago which came back as 10.3 nmol/L which my GP at the time said was normal for a 22 year old male - although I thought it seemed low.

But I've never done a blood thyroid panel, what's the connection between thyroid and metabolism? Please forgive me I'm ignorant in this area so I don't know much about the thyroid. I also get very cold hands and feet, which I heard was linked to thyroid problems?

Thanks

You should read up about what Peat says about thyroid and metabolism directly on his website. But generally speaking, low thyroid is what drives metabolism down toward torpor and hibernation and allows you to survive the famine. Also cold hands and feet is a symptom of low thyroid and high adrenaline.

 

[tara]

I don't calorie count but I can safely rule out that I don't eat enough, as an example - I have a big bowl of oats every morning with fruit, for lunch I might have a large chickpea and avocado/tuna salad or a black bean chili with brown rice (big portions) and then maybe 3 jacket potatoes with fish/chicken and vegetables for tea, or a beef stew something like that.

That sounds 1500-2000 calories. Peat is like 80 and eats double of that every day. Track your food intake for a week or two so you can get a good general picture of how much you are actually consuming. Cronometer.com makes the process very effortless.

+1
If you don't count calories, at least some of the time, it is very hard to know how many you are eating.
This doesn't look like much food to me. I would expect to lose weight on this diet, and I'm a sedentary menopausal female (though what you mean by large portions is a bit vague). If you are underweight and stressed, I'd think the obvious thing to try would be to add in morning and afternoon tea snacks. Consider milk/shakes and/or icecream if they agree with you. Carry snacks with you so you have some thing to eat when you think of it. eg chocolate, dried fruit etc.

For me, it took a while to realise that
Unidentified hunger -> stress (for me, pretty sure it was high adrenaline) -> hyperventilation.

One of the reasons it took me a long time to realise was because other people seemed to think I ate a lot.
I think one of the reasons for this was that many of them were eating and drinking a lot of high calorie snacks and drinks in addition to their main meals.

I eat much more than most people I know

You don't know how much you are eating unless you measure the actual calories.

When I had a foot operation a couple of months back I counted that I was eating at least 3000-3500 calories a day. With my only exercise all day being getting up to go to the bathroom. I didn’t gain a single pound.

This is normal calories for a man your age. Recovering from significant injury/surgery requires additional reserves.
Have you continued to eat at this level consistently before and since?

9 stones is 57 kg / 125 lbs. It is anorexia-tier for any regular sized male.

How tall are you, Danny?

People with weight problems have the tendency to either severely overestimate or underestimate how much they eat.

Most people don't estimate accurately, and people with eating disorders particularly so. On average, people tend to underestimate, except for people with anorexia and related issues, who on average tend to overestimate.

I've had a CSAx3 w/parasitology which revealed a lot of dysbiotic bacteria. I also did a Testosterone test about 3 years ago which came back as 10.3 nmol/L which my GP at the time said was normal for a 22 year old male - although I thought it seemed low.

If your gut is not taking in all the nutrition from the food you eat, that could be a contributing factor. Not everybody finds legumes, chilli and brown rice easy to digest. My digestion has improved since I've been eating less of those. Possibly you may not be getting all you need out of those. Personally, I also find meals like you describe so slow to eat that it's hard to get enough calories from them.
I also found I do better eating my main and highest protein meal round midday.
Have you had a look at how much of the major alkaline minerals you are getting in your diet regularly? Calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium.

But I've never done a blood thyroid panel, what's the connection between thyroid and metabolism? Please forgive me I'm ignorant in this area so I don't know much about the thyroid. I also get very cold hands and feet, which I heard was linked to thyroid problems?

Thyroid hormones signal basic level of energy production in the cells, which determine the level of base metabolism. If base metabolism is insufficient to meet energy needs, stress hormones can rise to fill the breach. This should ideally only happen briefly in acute need, but sometimes the base metabolism is chronically low and/or stress levels are chronically too high and the metabolism is sustained by chronically elevated stress hormones.
Yes to reading Peat's articles on thyroid.

I still have a low CP, but have taken the tops off the worst bouts of hyperventilation. I assume you've done the relatively easy things, like keeping mouth shut at night and except when eating, etc.
Ecstatic is an expert.

 

[DannyIrons™]

+1
If you don't count calories, at least some of the time, it is very hard to know how many you are eating.
This doesn't look like much food to me. I would expect to lose weight on this diet, and I'm a sedentary menopausal female (though what you mean by large portions is a bit vague). If you are underweight and stressed, I'd think the obvious thing to try would be to add in morning and afternoon tea snacks. Consider milk/shakes and/or icecream if they agree with you. Carry snacks with you so you have some thing to eat when you think of it. eg chocolate, dried fruit etc.

For me, it took a while to realise that
Unidentified hunger -> stress (for me, pretty sure it was high adrenaline) -> hyperventilation.

One of the reasons it took me a long time to realise was because other people seemed to think I ate a lot.
I think one of the reasons for this was that many of them were eating and drinking a lot of high calorie snacks and drinks in addition to their main meals.

You don't know how much you are eating unless you measure the actual calories.


This is normal calories for a man your age. Recovering from significant injury/surgery requires additional reserves.
Have you continued to eat at this level consistently before and since?


How tall are you, Danny?

Most people don't estimate accurately, and people with eating disorders particularly so. On average, people tend to underestimate, except for people with anorexia and related issues, who on average tend to overestimate.


If your gut is not taking in all the nutrition from the food you eat, that could be a contributing factor. Not everybody finds legumes, chilli and brown rice easy to digest. My digestion has improved since I've been eating less of those. Possibly you may not be getting all you need out of those. Personally, I also find meals like you describe so slow to eat that it's hard to get enough calories from them.
I also found I do better eating my main and highest protein meal round midday.
Have you had a look at how much of the major alkaline minerals you are getting in your diet regularly? Calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium.


Thyroid hormones signal basic level of energy production in the cells, which determine the level of base metabolism. If base metabolism is insufficient to meet energy needs, stress hormones can rise to fill the breach. This should ideally only happen briefly in acute need, but sometimes the base metabolism is chronically low and/or stress levels are chronically too high and the metabolism is sustained by chronically elevated stress hormones.
Yes to reading Peat's articles on thyroid.

I still have a low CP, but have taken the tops off the worst bouts of hyperventilation. I assume you've done the relatively easy things, like keeping mouth shut at night and except when eating, etc.
Ecstatic is an expert.

Thanks for your reply, you obviously took a long time to thoughtfully write this up and I appreciate that, but I don't agree with all of this.

My original question was whether there is a link between low Co2 and fast metabolism, I realise that by eating lots of food I can gain weight. But you could make the point that asking me to keep eating more food than I already am (which won't be good for digestion and the microbiome) is just treating the symptom (weight loss) and not the cause (fast metabolism). I've counted the calories for the past week and I've been consuming 3000-3500 a day, considering I have an office-based job sitting down for most the day, doing mild-moderate exercise after work shouldn't result in a 9-stone weight for someone my age. At the end of the day I'm not trying to bodybuild, I'm just trying to gain and sustain a moderate weight for my age and build.

My height is 5'11.

Also, eating chocolate and ice cream as you recommend is going to feed the Enterobacter Cloacae Complex that is a problematic +4 culture in my GI tract. Which is already creating a lot of immune problems for me as it is, and so is a high priority to remove.

I do agree with your last two paragraphs - I'm clearly not absorbing nutrients efficiently as I have low butyrate acid production levels, which shows that I definitely have a degree of intestinal permeability. That said I don't think this is the primary cause for the weight loss, however I could be totally wrong, I just think it's the low Co2 hence the original question.

I practice an hour minimum a day and I use SleepQ+ at night for mouth closure. A sleep app I have shows that I'm still breathing heavily at night, as my CP is so low at 5-6 that my respiratory centre in the brain is resetting to hyperventilation when I'm asleep, this is definitely hindering my progress, but I'm sticking at it. I've had sleep problems for years, since childhood really, I've had bad asthma so have mouth-breathed for a long long time up until recently. I don't remember when I last had a refreshing nights sleep.

 

[Blossom]

I think slow metabolism with stress hormone compensation mimicking a high metabolism. Possibly hypothyroidism but the question is what is the root cause/solution for your situation?
Your instinct to tackle your gut issues is probably at least part of the solution imo. You shouldn't have low co2 with a good metabolism. You should also be able to maintain a more reasonable weight for your height based on that amount of calories so it seems like you are in a catabolic pattern.

 

[DannyIrons™]

I think slow metabolism with stress hormone compensation mimicking a high metabolism. Possibly hypothyroidism but the question is what is the root cause/solution for your situation?
Your instinct to tackle your gut issues is probably at least part of the solution imo. You shouldn't have low co2 with a good metabolism. You should also be able to maintain a more reasonable weight for your height based on that amount of calories so it seems like you are in a catabolic pattern.

Yeah I don't know which it would be hyperthyroidism vs hypo? Because Hyper seems to more accurately describe my symptoms, cold extremities, weight loss etc... I guess improving my CO2, improving my gut, and keeping stress down is the only thing I can do. Hopefully that will normalise the metabolism/thyroid?