Extremely negative reaction to beta carotene?

[Ippodrom47]

Hi everyone! I have already posted some threads regarding iodine and beta carotene and I'm very thankful for your advice. The thing is, I clearly had too much beta carotene some time ago (carrots, greens, etc), now my skin is noticeably orange. It also seems to have crewed up my thyroid, giving me dry skin, mood swings, slow digestion - you name it. Now, I kid you not, whenever I eat anything with more or less solid amounts of beta-carotene, I begin to be irritable, very sensitive to cold and fatigued. It's so debilitating! Hope to get some advice based on your experience, thanks!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hi everyone! I have already posted some threads regarding iodine and beta carotene and I'm very thankful for your advice. The thing is, I clearly had too much beta carotene some time ago (carrots, greens, etc), now my skin is noticeably orange. It also seems to have crewed up my thyroid, giving me dry skin, mood swings, slow digestion - you name it. Now, I kid you not, whenever I eat anything with more or less solid amounts of beta-carotene, I begin to be irritable, very sensitive to cold and fatigued. It's so debilitating! Hope to get some advice based on your experience, thanks!

That sounds aweful Ippodrom! Why struggle with beta carotene though when Ray Peat says it isn't good?

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi everyone! I have already posted some threads regarding iodine and beta carotene and I'm very thankful for your advice. The thing is, I clearly had too much beta carotene some time ago (carrots, greens, etc), now my skin is noticeably orange. It also seems to have crewed up my thyroid, giving me dry skin, mood swings, slow digestion - you name it. Now, I kid you not, whenever I eat anything with more or less solid amounts of beta-carotene, I begin to be irritable, very sensitive to cold and fatigued. It's so debilitating! Hope to get some advice based on your experience, thanks!

I was extremely sensitive to beta carotene about 6 years ago when I first found Ray Peat. I learned that if you are hypothyroid you can't convert beta carotene into vitamin A and that beta carotene will block the function of vitamin A thereby making you more hypothyroid. (I think I remember that right?). You should avoid all things with beta carotene in them and you should supplement with some vitamin A. This is not medical advice; this is what I remember from listening to and reading Ray Peat interviews and articles.

search results for "beta-carotene": Programmable Search Engine

Beta carotene is a polyunsaturated fatty acid.

To get rid of beta carotene in shredded raw carrots, soak in water for 5 minutes, then drain and squeeze out the water before making carrot salad. No need to do this step if using white carrots.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I was extremely sensitive to beta carotene about 6 years ago when I first found Ray Peat. I learned that if you are hypothyroid you can't convert beta carotene into vitamin A and that beta carotene will block the function of vitamin A thereby making you more hypothyroid. (I think I remember that right?). You should avoid all things with beta carotene in them and you should supplement with some vitamin A. This is not medical advice; this is what I remember from listening to and reading Ray Peat interviews and articles.

search results for "beta-carotene": Programmable Search Engine

Beta carotene is a polyunsaturated fatty acid.

To get rid of beta carotene in shredded raw carrots, soak in water for 5 minutes, then drain and squeeze out the water before making carrot salad. No need to do this step if using white carrots.

We are in aggreance on beta carotene being bad. I never heard him say to suppliment vitamin though when it is in abundance in liver and other foods. I don't think he likes any vitamin supplinents, thinking they are all problematic. Maybe the suppliments are causing your issues? I like the white carrots too! Not many people know about them, so sweet!

 

[mostlylurking]

We are in aggreance on beta carotene being bad. I never heard him say to suppliment vitamin though when it is in abundance in liver and other foods. I don't think he likes any vitamin supplinents, thinking they are all problematic. Maybe the suppliments are causing your issues? I like the white carrots too! Not many people know about them, so sweet!

I remember Ray Peat talked about using vitamin A on his skin because if he took it orally he reacted badly to it. It's one of the oily vitamins that he uses transdermally. I supplement with 10,000iu of D3 daily; if you take D3 and don't balance it with vitamin A you can get insomnia which happened to me a couple of years ago. Danny Roddy talks about this problem. Per my last blood test, my vitamin A is in the middle of the normal range. I don't have any trouble sleeping now. Here's a video of Ray Peat talking about vitamin A:

View: https://youtu.be/JcceHjvoh9Q?t=3408

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I remember Ray Peat talked about using vitamin A on his skin because if he took it orally he reacted badly to it. It's one of the oily vitamins that he uses transdermally. Here's a video:

View: https://youtu.be/JcceHjvoh9Q?t=3408

Oh use it topically. Why would a person need it if they are eating liver and other high vitamin A foods? In any case too much vitamin A of any kind is an issue, even liver can be toxic.

 

[mostlylurking]

Oh use it topically. Why would a person need it if they are eating liver and other high vitamin A foods? In any case too much vitamin A of any kind is an issue, even liver can be toxic.

I just explained that supplementing D without A causes insomnia. The insomnia resolved after supplementing with A. I'm also hypothyroid and estrogen dominant. Supplementing with vitamin A has been helpful for me.

Here's a video, set to start at 23 minutes. Good information for this discussion. Danny explains about vitamin A and insomnia at 25:00:

View: https://youtu.be/GgeZJoir70w?t=1378

another one with Ray Peat about vitamin A:

View: https://youtu.be/PuSfV43Quuo?t=2633

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I just explained that supplementing D without A causes insomnia. The insomnia resolved after supplementing with A. I'm also hypothyroid and estrogen dominant. Supplementing with vitamin A has been helpful for me.

Here's a video, set to start at 23 minutes. Good information for this discussion. Danny explains about vitamin A and insomnia at 25:00:

View: https://youtu.be/GgeZJoir70w?t=1378

I'm sorry I don't listen to Danny. I waz helping to address your skin issue, nothing about your cured insomnia. Too much A is problematic, so dropping it and trying something else for your insomnia seems like a logical first idea, but no worries carry on :)

 

[mostlylurking]

I'm sorry I don't listen to Danny. I waz helping to address your skin issue, nothing about your cured insomnia. Too much A is problematic, so dropping it and trying something else for your insomnia seems like a logical first idea, but no worries carry on :)

I don't have a skin issue. I think maybe you mixed me up with someone else? Please listen to the two videos I posted above.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"now my skin is noticeably orange. It also seems to have crewed up my thyroid, giving me dry skin"

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I just thought the dry skin may be more of a vitamin A suppliment issue. If you think it is an absolute thryoid issue and no other possibility then sorry for the intrusion.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I don't follow Danny Roddy and I don't suppliment vitamins so I will have to listen to your hour long Ray Peat one at a later date. i look forward to it though. Thanks for sharing it :)

 

[mostlylurking]

"now my skin is noticeably orange. It also seems to have crewed up my thyroid, giving me dry skin"

That was the thread starter's post, not mine. It pertained to beta carotene, not vitamin A.

 

[mostlylurking]

I don't follow Danny Roddy and I don't suppliment vitamins so I will have to listen to your hour long Ray Peat one at a later date. i look forward to it though. Thanks for sharing it :)

Each of the videos are set to start at the pertinent info. Each requires about 3-5 minutes.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

That was the thread starter's post, not mine.

Oh I am sorry i was making lunch at the same time and didn't notice that! I get a lot of that with responses too, with people responding to someone else with my name in it. Sorry for the confusion ?

 

[Tarmander]

If your skin is orange, you have probably all the vitamin A you need for awhile. I would not focus on vitamin A intake as a path to health unless it is looking at reasons to cut it out of your diet.

I have been on a very low vitamin A diet for a couple years now and my last serum vitamin A test was at the upper end of the range. Stuff stays with you

 

[mostlylurking]

If your skin is orange, you have probably all the vitamin A you need for awhile. I would not focus on vitamin A intake as a path to health unless it is looking at reasons to cut it out of your diet.

I have been on a very low vitamin A diet for a couple years now and my last serum vitamin A test was at the upper end of the range. Stuff stays with you

Being orange from beta carotene does not necessarily translate into being adequate in vitamin A. Hypothyroid people can't convert beta carotene into vitamin A. Instead the beta carotene builds up in the body and causes problems.

 

[Tarmander]

Being orange from beta carotene does not necessarily translate into being adequate in vitamin A. Hypothyroid people can't convert beta carotene into vitamin A. Instead the beta carotene builds up in the body and causes problems.

I used the word "need" instead of "adequate" because adequate is up to quite a bit of interpretation. I am probably in the minority who thinks adequate levels of vitamin A are close to zero.

I think we can all agree she has enough for her needs... I doubt there has ever been a case of vitamin A deficiency plus orange skin from beta carotene intake, but happy to be proved wrong if there is.

 

[mostlylurking]

I used the word "need" instead of "adequate" because adequate is up to quite a bit of interpretation. I am probably in the minority who thinks adequate levels of vitamin A are close to zero.

I think we can all agree she has enough for her needs... I doubt there has ever been a case of vitamin A deficiency plus orange skin from beta carotene intake, but happy to be proved wrong if there is.

link: Carotenemia & Hypothyroidism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Acta Med Austriaca. 1993;20(1-2):17-20.
[Beta-carotene, vitamin A and carrier proteins in thyroid diseases].
[Article in German]
Aktuna D, Buchinger W, Langsteger W, Meister E, Sternad H, Lorenz O, Eber O.
The conversion of beta-carotene (provitamin A) to 2 molecules of vitamin A (retinol) is accelerated by thyroxine and hyperthyroidism, respectively. The characteristic yellow tint of the skin in hypothyroidism is due to hyper-beta-carotenemia. Both in hyper- and hypothyroidism in a retinol deficiency has been observed in literature. In a series of 36 patients (16 hyper-, 8 hypo-, and 12 euthyroid) serum samples were analyzed for retinol and beta-carotene levels (high pressure liquid chromatography) as well as retinol binding protein (radial immune diffusion), prealbumin (nephelometry), and serum zinc values (atomic absorption spectrometry) were established. The beta-carotene serum level in the hypothyroid group (mean 1.1 microgram/ml) was significantly higher (p < 0.05) in relation to euthyroid controls (0.6 microgram/ml), the hyperthyroid group showed significantly lower values (0.3 microgram/ml). RBP and prealbumin concentrations were significantly lower (p < 0.05) in hyperthyroid as against eu- and hypothyroid patients. Surprisingly, in all 3 groups the retinol levels were not significantly different, although the hyperthyroid group was slightly lower (0.6 microgram/ml) than the mean value of 0.7 micrograms/ml in the other groups. A vitamin A and protein rich food, customary in Central Europe, seems to rule out any vitamin A deficiency both in hyper- and hypothyroidism. However, the beta-carotene values are significantly higher in hypothyroidism, while in hyperthyroidism they were lower. As intrahepatic zinc content plays an important role in the synthesis of RBP and its secretion together with retinol, we also analyzed this component: The serum zinc levels in hyperthyroid patients were clearly higher (79.1 micrograms/dl) than in the hypothyroid group with 57 micrograms/dl (p < 0.05).

and from the Comments, a response from Team FPS:
"The basic problem is thyroid deficiency so that should be the primary focus. Low thyroid can lead to B12 deficiency by affecting the stomach’s production of hydrochloric acid (HCL). Stress can also affect HCL production directly. Ample HCL is needed to extract B12 from food. B12 is needed in the liver to convert carotene to vitamin A. Low thyroid also causes liver sluggishness affecting carotene conversion and estrogen detoxification.

I would stop eating things like sweet potatoes, carrots, and pumpkin because it’s not ideal to burden the liver when it’s already stressed. Substitute boiled bamboo shoots for the raw carrot salad."

 

[Tarmander]

link: Carotenemia & Hypothyroidism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Acta Med Austriaca. 1993;20(1-2):17-20.
[Beta-carotene, vitamin A and carrier proteins in thyroid diseases].
[Article in German]
Aktuna D, Buchinger W, Langsteger W, Meister E, Sternad H, Lorenz O, Eber O.
The conversion of beta-carotene (provitamin A) to 2 molecules of vitamin A (retinol) is accelerated by thyroxine and hyperthyroidism, respectively. The characteristic yellow tint of the skin in hypothyroidism is due to hyper-beta-carotenemia. Both in hyper- and hypothyroidism in a retinol deficiency has been observed in literature. In a series of 36 patients (16 hyper-, 8 hypo-, and 12 euthyroid) serum samples were analyzed for retinol and beta-carotene levels (high pressure liquid chromatography) as well as retinol binding protein (radial immune diffusion), prealbumin (nephelometry), and serum zinc values (atomic absorption spectrometry) were established. The beta-carotene serum level in the hypothyroid group (mean 1.1 microgram/ml) was significantly higher (p < 0.05) in relation to euthyroid controls (0.6 microgram/ml), the hyperthyroid group showed significantly lower values (0.3 microgram/ml). RBP and prealbumin concentrations were significantly lower (p < 0.05) in hyperthyroid as against eu- and hypothyroid patients. Surprisingly, in all 3 groups the retinol levels were not significantly different, although the hyperthyroid group was slightly lower (0.6 microgram/ml) than the mean value of 0.7 micrograms/ml in the other groups. A vitamin A and protein rich food, customary in Central Europe, seems to rule out any vitamin A deficiency both in hyper- and hypothyroidism. However, the beta-carotene values are significantly higher in hypothyroidism, while in hyperthyroidism they were lower. As intrahepatic zinc content plays an important role in the synthesis of RBP and its secretion together with retinol, we also analyzed this component: The serum zinc levels in hyperthyroid patients were clearly higher (79.1 micrograms/dl) than in the hypothyroid group with 57 micrograms/dl (p < 0.05).

and from the Comments, a response from Team FPS:
"The basic problem is thyroid deficiency so that should be the primary focus. Low thyroid can lead to B12 deficiency by affecting the stomach’s production of hydrochloric acid (HCL). Stress can also affect HCL production directly. Ample HCL is needed to extract B12 from food. B12 is needed in the liver to convert carotene to vitamin A. Low thyroid also causes liver sluggishness affecting carotene conversion and estrogen detoxification.

I would stop eating things like sweet potatoes, carrots, and pumpkin because it’s not ideal to burden the liver when it’s already stressed. Substitute boiled bamboo shoots for the raw carrot salad."

Not seeing any vitamin A deficiency symptoms like night blindness, dry eyes, xerophthalmia etc.

I think you are arguing against something I am not saying