Extreme Endotoxin Reaction. White Mushrooms. Portobello

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I finally figured out why sometimes I have extreme gut reaction for button mushrooms. Bloating, gas, discomfort, insomnia, chils, freezing cold, agitation.
Portobello is the answer. I googled and wow! Being the same specie portobello is just a mature common button mushroom. But age matters. Portobello provokes 9 times stronger TNF response. And contains 250(!) times more LPS. This study is life-saver! And portobello has second highest bacterial load. Damn me that guy is right about portobello conspiracy.

Bacterial components are the major contributors to the macrophage stimulating activity exhibited by extracts of common edible mushrooms
 

yerrag

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Thanks. While this is an in-vitro study, I have no reason to doubt the relative amount of endotoxins of these mushrooms.

My sister recently developed high blood pressure, and this could shed insight into her condition. This year, she started eating snow fungus mushrooms for dessert. Although that mushroom isn't mentioned in the study, it bear resemblance to the wood ear mushroom, which has the highest endotoxin levels. I alerted her to this, and we'll see if her blood pressure can be lowered when she stops eating the dessert.
 
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yerrag

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Well, as expected, like most mis-educated people, she took it coolly. No action needed. A waste of time for me. Her problem-not mine.
 

Wolf

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Fun reminder to make sure I cook the hell outta my mushrooms.
 

yerrag

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yerrag

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"We conclude that the TNF-alpha-inducing activity of LPS and DPLA is sensitive to boiling and suggest that heat sensitivity as an indicator of whether the observed effects of a protein preparation are a result of LPS contamination should be used with caution." - I could wrap my head around this and not understand what it's trying to say. Help!
 
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Heat treatment by boiling for 15 min was sufficient to inactivate approximately 90% of the LPS TNF-alpha-inducing activity. The heat-induced inactivation of LPS activities was not a result of adherence of boiled LPS to the wall of the container, i.e., polypropylene tubes, or aggregation of boiled LPS. In addition, boiled LPS retained its ability to bind polymyxin B. The presence of protein (ovalbumin) in LPS did not affect the heat sensitivity of LPS. Conversely, boiling reduced the size of LPS aggregates as determined by electrophoresis using native polyacrylamide gel. Likewise, the TNF-alpha-inducing activity of diphosphoryl lipid A (DPLA) was also sensitive to boiling. Thin-layer chromatographic analysis of boiled DPLA revealed that the heat-induced inactivation of DPLA TNF-alpha-inducing activity was not a result of its conversion to monophosphoryl lipid A. We conclude that the TNF-alpha-inducing activity of LPS and DPLA is sensitive to boiling and suggest that heat sensitivity as an indicator of whether the observed effects of a protein preparation are a result of LPS contamination should be used with caution.

Maybe this is why Dr. Peat suggests cooking mushrooms by boiling them at least 45 minutes.
 

yerrag

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"We conclude that the TNF-alpha-inducing activity of LPS and DPLA is sensitive to boiling and suggest that heat sensitivity as an indicator of whether the observed effects of a protein preparation are a result of LPS contamination should be used with caution." - I could wrap my head around this and not understand what it's trying to say. Help!
I give up on lousy scientific English - no one here can figure it out either. They're intentionally written to make resders pretend they understand what they're saying. Pretence has no need for further enlightenment.
 
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It actually makes sense. There is a test of heating something up to determine whether or not it is contaminated with LPS. However it turns out LPS itself is heat sensitive, so this test should not be used willy-nilly.
 
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This is an important study because I was under the impression LPS was insensitive the heat, but it is not. But it does take a long term boiling to get rid of it. And it doesn’t completely get rid of it, but perhaps a transforms it to something that is not dangerous.
 

yerrag

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It actually makes sense. There is a test of heating something up to determine whether or not it is contaminated with LPS. However it turns out LPS itself is heat sensitive, so this test should not be used willy-nilly.
This is an important study because I was under the impression LPS was insensitive the heat, but it is not. But it does take a long term boiling to get rid of it. And it doesn’t completely get rid of it, but perhaps a transforms it to something that is not dangerous.
The study gives validity to that claim, but LPS has different moeities, and I'm not sure all LPS responds in the same way.

And, as the study shows, not all endotoxin is inactivated by heat. How are we to know heat treatment to reduce endotoxins is sufficient to bring endotoxin to a suitable level?
 

LeeLemonoil

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I think ts possible that beta-glucans especially, but also the sterols and sesquiterpenes or some intricate peptides even that are occurring in many edible mushrooms would modify and alleviate endotoxin-immune response in vivo (eaten!)

Speculation only, not yet looked into it.
People eat raw extracts of mushrooms and stuff, by far not all report averse experiences
 

boris

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Recently I started peeling the slimey layer on top and throwing it away along with the stalks. Makes washing them easier and I think it tastes better and looks better. The resulting mushrooms soup isn‘t as dark anymore. More of a light beige.

I suspect more of the toxins like hydrazine might be on the outside to protect the mushroom. No proof just a gut feeling.

You can even skip the grinding and just cut them up a little bit before cooking. When they are ready, sautee the chunks. They get crispy on the outside and have the consistency of meat. Absolutley delicious.

I am still on the fence about the stalks. Going to experiment more with it. It would make sense if they had more of antibiotic compounds. They are also the most fibrous part. I just don‘t like that they bruise so quickly.
 
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Lord Cola

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I used to get bloated and nauseous after eating WBM even when they had been boiled for hours. I don't have bad reactions to pre-boiled white button mushrooms if I fry them until their faint ammonia-like smell is gone. According to some websites hydrazine has ammonia-like odor.
 

Amazoniac

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"We conclude that the TNF-alpha-inducing activity of LPS and DPLA is sensitive to boiling and suggest that heat sensitivity as an indicator of whether the observed effects of a protein preparation are a result of LPS contamination should be used with caution."
Another way to put it: when there's risk of contamination (with LPS) that might affect the interpretation of the effect of a heat-labile proteid, boiling it assuming that LPS will remain intact for you to discern if it was due to contamination isn't reliable since it can be affected along.

This is an important study because I was under the impression LPS was insensitive the heat, but it is not. But it does take a long term boiling to get rid of it. And it doesn’t completely get rid of it, but perhaps a transforms it to something that is not dangerous.
There's also the chance to interfere with adsorption or milden the impact of this toxin with the intestinal phosphatases (check out figure 7 above).

- A New Role for Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase in Gut Barrier Maintenance

"The structure of LPS consists of a core polysaccharide flanked by a lipid A moiety and a O-specific polysaccharide region (Figure 1). The lipid A moiety is largely responsible for the toxic effects of LPS.[22] ALP likely acts to dephosphorylate the diphosphoryl lipid A moiety of LPS generating its nontoxic monophosphoryl derivative.[20,23]"​

- Removal of Phosphate from Lipid A as a Strategy to Detoxify Lipopolysaccharide

I readed one publication showing improvements of various inflammation markers (including TNF-Diokine) after animals consumed Portobello mushrooms. These is not to play down the topic here, just to point out that it should be more complex.
 

Lewis Acid

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In pharmaceutical production, it is necessary to remove all traces of endotoxin from drug product containers, as even small amounts of endotoxin will cause illness in humans. A depyrogenation oven is used for this purpose. Temperatures in excess of 300 °C are required to break down this substance. A defined endotoxin reduction rate is a correlation between time and temperature. Based on primary packaging material as syringes or vials, a glass temperature of 250 °C and a holding time of 30 minutes is typical to achieve a reduction of endotoxin levels by a factor of 1000. The Detection of Endotoxins Via the LAL Test, the Chromogenic Method

I am just going to buy the ones that do not have LPS from go - why go thru a song and a dance if you do not have to.
 

Tarmander

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portobello mushrooms cause insta-bloating and breathing problems for me. Nice explanation
 
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