Experts Needed On This Issue

[Blossom]

I am sorry if I just gave my life story, I just have to pick myself up and move on and hope,

I understand. Physically and emotionally that's a lot to live through and process. I think if you could get an accurate diagnosis from someone you trust it might help with the worry. Perhaps that's what your GP was attempting to do by calling it scar tissue from smoking?!? I hope I didn't cause you even more worry and that you can get this resolved and start feeling better!

 

[TreasureVibe]

I understand. Physically and emotionally that's a lot to live through and process. I think if you could get an accurate diagnosis from someone you trust it might help with the worry. Perhaps that's what your GP was attempting to do by calling it scar tissue from smoking?!? I hope I didn't cause you even more worry and that you can get this resolved and start feeling better!

I think that is what my GP was doing, yes. He saw my patient file on his screen and saw how much I came by before for related chest issues, like costochondritis and probably thought I just have to comfort him into thinking nothing is wrong, which is what he said too indirectly, stating I should seek peace with the symptoms I have.

You mentioned PFT, which is weird because my lung capacity is normal. Could it be that the serrapeptase/nattokinase removed the scar tissue involved with decreasing the pulmonary function in bronchitis, leaving me with bronchitis without a decreased pulmonary function? I recall that during the use of those enzymes that my lungs capacity went up alot and I was able to breathe much more freely. In this case however, what should I do to get tested for bronchitis? I had a PFT before which was good, in late 2016 I recall. In early 2017 the ''incident'' happened with the thick smoke from upstairs which I inhaled while using the nattokinase and serrapeptase, causing the chronic stingy pain with cough in my right lung. I quit smoking on january 1st 2016. I indeed on planning to move out, as the overall quality of life with my relatives is just low, to maintain good health.

 

[Blossom]

Maybe you are just taking a bit longer to recover after quitting smoking than average due to all you've been through. I wonder if those life and death traumatic experiences in childhood leave an imprint of sorts that takes a lot of effort to overcome. My step daughter coded a couple times and died, was resuscitated and came back at less than one year old and it seems to have had some lasting effects. She's not disabled or anything but has challenges.

I'm not versed well enough on those particular enzymes to comment but I believe @lisaferraro and @ecstatichamster could have something to add about how those work. Hamster also understands breathing from a buteyko perspective.
I have much hope that you can turn this around or at least make significant progress just by being here and all your efforts. It seems to usually take a little time, effort and perseverance for all the pieces to fit together and fall into place when the situation is complicated. The important thing is just don't give up hope.

 

[lollipop]

Maybe you are just taking a bit longer to recover after quitting smoking than average due to all you've been through. I wonder if those life and death traumatic experiences in childhood leave an imprint of sorts that takes a lot of effort to overcome. My step daughter coded a couple times and died, was resuscitated and came back at less than one year old and it seems to have had some lasting effects. She's not disabled or anything but has challenges.

I'm not versed well enough on those particular enzymes to comment but I believe @lisaferraro and @ecstatichamster could have something to add about how those work. Hamster also understands breathing from a buteyko perspective.
I have much hope that you can turn this around or at least make significant progress just by being here and all your efforts. It seems to usually take a little time, effort and perseverance for all the pieces to fit together and fall into place when the situation is complicated. The important thing is just don't give up hope.

Hi @TreasureVibe, a multi digestive enzyme that is effective and reasonably priced is Digest Basic by Enzymedica. A bottle of 180 costs like 24.99 on Amazon.

I have used digestive enzymes to help me rebuild my GI system. I use with meals and occasionally at night just before sleeping with water - maybe 5 or 6 to help systemically. I found it costly to do this often, so I restrict to when I feel off.

Hope this helps!

 

[TreasureVibe]

Maybe you are just taking a bit longer to recover after quitting smoking than average due to all you've been through. I wonder if those life and death traumatic experiences in childhood leave an imprint of sorts that takes a lot of effort to overcome. My step daughter coded a couple times and died, was resuscitated and came back at less than one year old and it seems to have had some lasting effects. She's not disabled or anything but has challenges.

I'm not versed well enough on those particular enzymes to comment but I believe @lisaferraro and @ecstatichamster could have something to add about how those work. Hamster also understands breathing from a buteyko perspective.
I have much hope that you can turn this around or at least make significant progress just by being here and all your efforts. It seems to usually take a little time, effort and perseverance for all the pieces to fit together and fall into place when the situation is complicated. The important thing is just don't give up hope.

Would simply taking aspirin/willow bark to curb inflammation and pain be good or bad? The willow bark capsule I took yesterday started to work in the evening throughout the morning, and effectively removed my chest pain 60-70% of the time, up until now. I do feel a sense of mucus building up again, though. I am interested in using a simple saline solution for in my nebulizer, but I am struggling to find a proper dosage to create it, my nebulizer only uses around 1 mililiter to create vapor for 20 minutes atleast so.

What is the stance of Ray Peat on inflammation? Is it good, is it bad, is it necessary? Especially in the case of bronchitis, and possible infection, I would like to know.

The pockets you spoke of, did seem to resonate with my feeling that I had when the mucus loosened during nebulization, which felt pocketed deep down somewhere and wouldn't get lose by itself like other mucus. When they got loose, there was a deep sense of relief in my lung. Like it had been sitting there for years.

The aspirin ''feels'' helpful, but now I just have to make sure that it actually is beneficial in health terms as well, other than just alleviating pain through lowering inflammation.

Yes indeed the experience of having nearly died, especially because your own body fails you is a very scary thing which leaves an imprint, I can attest. One of my doctors back in my childhood even predicted to my parents that one day when I would become an adolescent I would start getting mental issues related to my near death experience as a child. I just seem to have a trust issue with my own body, not allowing myself to trust on it to stay working properly.

Oh and I also have scheduled a new appointment with another GP today, in which I will ask for a referral to a pulmonologist. I hope this will get some clearance. Thank you so far for the kind support!

Now that I come to think of it, I think I have to mention the following, there was one reported case of a Japanese woman who suffered from pneumonia induced by serrapeptase:

[A case of eosinophilic pneumonia due to Nicolase (serrapeptase) after recovery from acute eosinophilic pneumonia]. - PubMed - NCBI

which seems to be relevant in my case perhaps.

And here is another one:

[Serrapeptase-induced lung injury manifesting as acute eosiniphilic pneumonia]. - PubMed - NCBI

And another one:

[A case of pneumonitis due to serrapeptase] - Abstract - Europe PMC

And also this:

That said, Serrapeptase is a powerful enzyme that comes with a few cautions. In elderly people who use the product over a long period of time, gastrointestinal irritation can occur, though this is rare. There is also the increased risk of infection of the lung and pneumonia when using Serrapeptase. This is rare (as evidenced by a few isolated letters to the editor in medical journals)6 but is a possibility because Serrapeptase thins mucus secretions, which can lead to lung complications if one has a history of lung problems. Also note that the studies involving Serrapeptase do not extend over a long period of time. Therefore, the long-term effects of this supplement have not yet been determined.

Source: Serrapeptase Natural Anti-inflammatory | Life Extension Magazine

And this:

It's hard to find any literature about the negative side effects of Serrapeptase. If you search the internet it looks like a miracle enzym. And it is for many people, but not for me and not for my friend. First I had some fatigue and head ache, this can be normal for the first days. After a week the fatigue was gone and I didn't notice any positive effects. A week later I started to have MORE PAIN in almost ALL MY JOINTS and much acid in my muscles. When I checked with my friend she had the same reaction, so I was sure it was because of the Serrapeptase. But... maybe we just had to get through this and then it would be better, so we tried another week. Then my friend got pneumonia. She was getting sicker every day. And I didn't feel good either. I searched the internet for negative side effects, but couldn't find any in the first place. After a couple of hours I finally found something and it became clear that our pain en her pneumonia was caused by the Serrapeptase. We both suffer from FM (Fibromyalgia) and MPS (Myofascial pain syndrome) and my guess is that the latter in combination with Serrapeptase can cause more pain, inflammation and in my friends case pneumonia. It may help for FM, but be aware that most people with FM also have MPS and my reaction to Serrapeptase

Source: https://www.mdjunction.com/forums/l...-support/3425387-does-anyone-use-serrapeptase

and:

Serrapeptase side effects
It can also cause pneumonitis and minor inflammation of the lung tissue.

Source: Serrapeptase Benefits

Hi @TreasureVibe, a multi digestive enzyme that is effective and reasonably priced is Digest Basic by Enzymedica. A bottle of 180 costs like 24.99 on Amazon.

I have used digestive enzymes to help me rebuild my GI system. I use with meals and occasionally at night just before sleeping with water - maybe 5 or 6 to help systemically. I found it costly to do this often, so I restrict to when I feel off.

Hope this helps!

Thank you Lisa, do you have experience with serrapeptase/nattokinase in regards to COPD and general lung health as well?

 

[Blossom]

Aspirin (or willow bark) seems like the most Peaty pain reliever so as long as you have no intolerance to it I think it would be a great choice for pain and inflammation. You may need to make sure you are getting adequate vitamin K if you are taking aspirin on a regular basis. I'm not sure if that applies to willow bark as well but I'd think it would. I don't think it will completely resolve your issues but relief from pain and inflammation is still important.

I'm glad you have an appointment with someone who can give you another opinion. There are some GP's that can manage lung issues fine it just depends on the person and their experience. Be sure they listen to your lungs thoroughly-back and front and that the stethoscope is held to each area for a full inhalation and exhalation. I'd also mention how long you've been having these issues.

It does sound plausible to me that the enzymes could have triggered something in your case.

 

[lollipop]

@TreasureVibe I like Aspirin! It definitely reduced pain and inflammation from reflux when it was painful for me. Good choice. I also like White Willow Bark. I have a bottle for Symptoms and need, not as a regular supplement...

 

[Blossom]

I am interested in using a simple saline solution for in my nebulizer, but I am struggling to find a proper dosage to create it, my nebulizer only uses around 1 mililiter to create vapor for 20 minutes atleast so.

That would be very time consuming! That's 1 hour for 3ml of saline. Maybe your new doctor would be willing to prescribe you a newer neb machine that would nebulize 3-4ml/20 minutes?

 

[TreasureVibe]

So I went to the other GP for a second opinion, I asked for a referral for a pulmonologist but she refused stating that the tools (x-ray, blood test) we had here would be enough to encompass for my symptoms, she then listened with a stethoscope to my chest and back while I inhaled and exhaled, and after having told my story to her and for how long the symptoms had been lingering now, she has given me a blood test paper with ''hematology complete blood study *1'' checked, CRP checked, D-Dimer checked, and ESR/sed rate checked. She also gave me a paper on which she wrote ''y-thorax'' which I presume means a X-ray of the chest, with ''right chest + cough'' and something I can't read yet, ''2 a/w lcvyveld'' or something. During the stethoscope exam she also put a small device on my index finger which she stated later was checking my oxygen level, which was fully 100%. She only saw a raised heartrate of 100 beats per minute, but that could be because I had to cycle pretty fast to doctor's office to get there in time and I normally don't exercise.

I also mentioned the use of the proteolytic/fibrinolytic enzymes and how studies showed some people becoming sick from it, but she kind of brushed that away in the conversation as irrelevant. I also asked if a preventive prescription of antibiotics wouldn't be more wise but she said that she did not have a direct indication to do that yet.

What do you guys and gals think?

My gut feeling tells me to just take the aspirin/willow bark until the symptoms go away and it will resolve, but I mentioned this to her as well and she said that ''aspirin will only lower pain, but will not lower inflammation'', yet I will wait for the tests to be done until continuing it because I don't want to sabotage a diagnosis.

CC @Blossom @lisaferraro

That would be very time consuming! That's 1 hour for 3ml of saline. Maybe your new doctor would be willing to prescribe you a newer neb machine that would nebulize 3-4ml/20 minutes?

The thing is, I bought this nebulizer myself once for health benefits claimed on a website by an alternative doctor, and I don't think the GP would prescribe me one, atleast not easily. Because my country has universal health care and the costs have been rampant nationally lately, doctors are very tight with health care costs. My nebulizer allows a liquid to be put in of about 300 ml atleast which I can do myself from the sink for example, so I don't need a prefabricated cartridge of some sort, I can make the nebulizing agent myself.

 

[Blossom]

So I went to the other GP for a second opinion

Wow that was fast!

I mentioned this to her as well and she said that ''aspirin will only lower pain, but will not lower inflammation'',

I suppose compared to something like prednisone that doctors typically use then aspirin would seem weak with regards to inflammation.

2 absent lcvveld'' or something.

The only thing I can make of that is possibly absent breath sounds. It will be nice to know what is revealed from the tests.

 

[Blossom]

The thing is, I bought this nebulizer myself once for health benefits claimed on a website

Nebulizing 1 ml of saline several times per day would be better than nothing. There are people that use sodium bicarbonate for the same purpose but that can *sometimes*cause bronchospasm.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Wow that was fast!

I figured I would just call right away for a new appointment, because I kind of had the feeling that the other male GP was slacking as he did not want any hassle.

I suppose compared to something like prednisone that doctors typically use then aspirin would seem weak with regards to inflammation.

She stated literally that aspirin only lowers pain through ''pain mediated channels'' and not by any action on inflammation because I suggested that what I was suffering from could be inflammation as aspirin lowered the pain yesterday. So I guess she's not up-to-date on aspirin's effect on inflammation.

Nebulizing 1 ml of saline several times per day would be better than nothing. There are people that use sodium bicarbonate for the same purpose but that can *sometimes*cause bronchospasm.

Yes but how much salt goes in per mililiter? I tried sodium bicarbonate btw, but it wouldn't dissolve and instead felt to the bottom of the water.

I might as well just eat all types of inflammatory foods right now, and get whatever's down there to act up, just to showcase the doctor that I'm not some kind of hypochondriac and that I actually am feeling something lol, because I couldn't completely shake the feeling that I was being stigmatized a little bit by her about that, but it was less than normal. I think this has to do with the fact that my mother went to her a while ago, and had her BP checked (she knew her history of hypertension) and was amazed at how it was in the range of 120, and my mother told her it was all because of my Peat instructions with calcium, vitamin K etc I gave her, and she was impressed so..

The willow bark really made the ache less achey but I just don't want to ruin a potential diagnosis by continuing to take it.

Are the tests she requested enough to find anything that I could be suffering from in your opinion? Or did she miss something?

The only thing I can make of that is possibly absent breath sounds. It will be nice to know what is revealed from the tests.

Yes it could be, the writing is very hard to read.. And it's in Dutch.

 

[Blossom]

Yes but how much salt goes in per mililiter?

Good question. I haven't made it from scratch but I'm sure we could all put our heads together and figure it out fairly easily. I have to go into work but I'll see if I can find some recipes. Hypertonic saline works better than normal saline for mucus clearance so I'll look for how to make that concentration.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Good question. I haven't made it from scratch but I'm sure we could all put our heads together and figure it out fairly easily. I have to go into work but I'll see if I can find some recipes. Hypertonic saline works better than normal saline for mucus clearance so I'll look for how to make that concentration.

Thanks! You mentioned PFT as a good diagnostic tool for bronchitis, and I had those before the incident with the enzymes, and I told her this, and my patient record could show this, yet she kind of steered away from a referral for a PFT, stating that her suggested blood tests and x-ray would be enough to rule out anything that is linked to my symptoms, and that my previous PFT was good, although she admitted that it was irrelevant because it was before the incident.

What do you think of this as a lung expert? Have a nice day at work, I hope you could answer this afterwards! Thanks in advance.

 

[Blossom]

What do you think of this as a lung expert?

I'm not an expert, I've just worked with people with lung problems for a long time.
If you have an infection it would be better to get that cleared up before having a repeat PFT. If your other tests all come back normal a PFT might help pinpoint if there is any new significant breathing impairment that's developed over the last two years.

I found this link on how to make normal saline. I would boil the water to make it sterile. You could draw up 1ml using a baby medicine dropper from the pharmacy. I haven't found anything on making hypertonic saline yet.
https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-make-saline-solution-608142

 

[lollipop]

Hi @TreasureVibe, please excuse me, I am way beyond uncomfortable in my knowledge base to help you. I feel it best for myself in stressful times to get quiet and listen to that quiet inner voice that knows the truth for me.

 

[TreasureVibe]

I'm not an expert, I've just worked with people with lung problems for a long time.
If you have an infection it would be better to get that cleared up before having a repeat PFT. If your other tests all come back normal a PFT might help pinpoint if there is any new significant breathing impairment that's developed over the last two years.

I found this link on how to make normal saline. I would boil the water to make it sterile. You could draw up 1ml using a baby medicine dropper from the pharmacy. I haven't found anything on making hypertonic saline yet.
https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-make-saline-solution-608142

Thank you! I will rest until I have done the tests. The aspirin has really dealt a big blow to the disease, I am amazed at its power.. I hope though that if it comes to it, that it will keep the disease from coming back forever.. I will keep reporting. A feeling tells me it is a simple principle of removing mucus and shutting off inflammation, to cure that which is plaguing me.

Hi @TreasureVibe, please excuse me, I am way beyond uncomfortable in my knowledge base to help you. I feel it best for myself in stressful times to get quiet and listen to that quiet inner voice that knows the truth for me.

That is okay, thank you for your contribution Lisa! It is much appreciated. I will try to heed your message!

 

[Blossom]

will keep reporting.

Great!

 

[TreasureVibe]

I think I am going to refuse the x-ray due to the harmful effects of it, which I don't think are worth it. I remember having x-rays before of the chest multiple times for related issues in the past few years and none of them showed anything.

Is this a good idea or not?

 

[Blossom]

I think I am going to refuse the x-ray due to the harmful effects of it, which I don't think are worth it. I remember having x-rays before of the chest multiple times for related issues in the past few years and none of them showed anything.

Is this a good idea or not?

Only you can decide if your situation is dire enough to warrant the x-ray. I understand though as I've been avoiding the dentist for the same reason! If I wasn't able to manage my dental health and see steady improvement I'd go and just try to use protective measures. We have some threads floating around on things protective when X-ray can't be avoided.