Experience With Vitamin A And Acne

cartman

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Has someone here experience with vitamin A and acne, that means the amount of vitamin A intake without risking overdoses. I noticed improvements by supplementing vitamin A, the problem is that after a while I have to increase the dose, because my acne (back and breast) reappears. I am now at 40 000 IU per day what seems to be high. Has somebody tried even higher doses? Otherwise in the forum once a study was posted in which they treated acne with 500 000 IU. Somebody has experience with this?
 

key

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I use more than 40,000IU regularly. The effective dose depends on mainly how much sun I get. Based on a calculation from a study(http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/6/1152) which reviewed other studies I'd need 300,000IU of oil based vitamin A daily for many months or years to overdose.
 
T

tobieagle

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A quick question cartman:
If you use 40 000 IU every day and you take the nutrisorb, you need about 2 bottles per month ?
 

Dan Wich

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Thank you for that study, Key, I was worried about long-term overdose as I experiment with 75,000IU.
 

cartman

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Ok. Howerver I don't understand why the need can be so high in some cases?

@tobieagle
I use the Carlson, nutrisorb is too expensive for me.
 
J

j.

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cartman said:
Ok. Howerver I don't understand why the need can be so high in some cases?

This is just speculation: I don't think a very high vitamin A requirement is natural, but I believe needing it so much can be a consequence of bad diets we followed for years.
 

jyb

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cartman said:
Ok. Howerver I don't understand why the need can be so high in some cases?

@tobieagle
I use the Carlson, nutrisorb is too expensive for me.

You need it if you have symptoms of deficiency like acne or dry skin. Too few or too much retinol is anti thyroid. If you are still hypothyroid, you may need a small amount only and taking excess might be bad. Retinol need may be increased during bright light / summer.

Taking too much can be detected by formation of calluses (there's a quote from RP on this somewhere). I can confirm that when I was taking a lot of Nutrisorb A - some calluses formed on hand palms, a bit like after repeated work outs suspended to a bar with bare hands. The calluses are now gone and I take less retinol supplement - I prefer frequent and small pieces of liver, since it also has other nutrients that are probably useful for the skin.
 

Dan Wich

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A relevant quote from Peat about taking 100,000IU (and about calluses):

For several years, I had a similar need to take 100,000 i.u. daily to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, so I read a lot about its effects. The toxic effects of extremely big doses, such as 500,000 to a million i.u., seem to be from either oxidative processes (rancidity) that are prevented by adequate vitamin E, or by antithyroid effects. I found that when my need for vitamin A began to decrease I tended to accumulate carotene in my calluses; that happens when the thyroid function is lower, reducing the need for vitamin A. Since you are eating foods with carotene, the calluses on your palms or soles should serve as an indicator of when your tissues are saturated with vitamin A. About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.

I might be misremembering, but I think he also mentioned taking 15,000IU of vitamin D along with the A and E.
 

jyb

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Actually I'm not certain - does he mean that in excess it creates calluses, or just deposition of carotene (coloration) in existing calluses?
 

bradley

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in regards to that study, Is nutrisorb considered to be a preparation in oil or water-miscible/emulsified?
 

Dan Wich

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Bradley, I think Nutrisorb is considered micellized/water-based with regard to that study.

Key, should I interpret your post as meaning you take an oil-based vitamin A? Can you recommend a brand? I'm having trouble tracking down all the excipients used in halibut liver oil supplements, which I assume are the way to go.
 

key

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Nutrisorb is probably fine. I emailed ray about it and the study and he didn't seem concerned.

I get a generic Rite Aid brand oil-based vitamin A(10,000IU per pill). Ingredients is vitamin A(as fish liver oil), soybean oil, gelatin, glycerin. I'd go broke if I bought nutrisorb.
 

Dan Wich

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Interesting. I wonder if the increased toxicity only comes from the (supposedly) high absorption rates of water-miscibile forms.

I've been looking for a halibut liver oil supplement (since Peat has specifically mentioned those) without added soybean/vegetable oil; anyone interested can see the list I'm building here. I'd welcome product suggestions and insight about whether halibut is actually preferable.
 

Dan Wich

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Doing some research, it seems like halibut liver is uniquely high in vitamin A. Perhaps that's why Peat had mentioned using it. That also makes me wonder if most fish liver-based vitamin A supplements (like yours, Key) are actually halibut.
 

Dan Wich

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Thanks Kiran, I'm continuing to add products to that list. Still haven't found a brand without soybean/vegetable oil, though maybe the amount is negligible.

Jyb, I think I might remember the same quote as you do about calluses growing, though I can't find it. Maybe they both discolor and enlarge...
 

jyb

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Dan Wich said:
Thanks Kiran, I'm continuing to add products to that list. Still haven't found a brand without soybean/vegetable oil, though maybe the amount is negligible.

Jyb, I think I might remember the same quote as you do about calluses growing, though I can't find it. Maybe they both discolor and enlarge...

No, I think the quote I had in mind was the one you just mentioned. So my question is really about that quote itself.
 

bradley

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Carlson's Natural Vitamin A uses sunflower oil at least.

Dan Wich said:
Thanks Kiran, I'm continuing to add products to that list. Still haven't found a brand without soybean/vegetable oil, though maybe the amount is negligible.

Jyb, I think I might remember the same quote as you do about calluses growing, though I can't find it. Maybe they both discolor and enlarge...
 
T

tobieagle

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j. said:
cartman said:
Ok. Howerver I don't understand why the need can be so high in some cases?

This is just speculation: I don't think a very high vitamin A requirement is natural, but I believe needing it so much can be a consequence of bad diets we followed for years.

Sad story is however, that many(maybe most?) people today eat tons of pufas every day, dont even know what retinol is and have a Vitamin A intake of maybe below 1000 IU per day (not to mention they probably never ate liver in their entire life). And still they have a non oily, perfect skin. I would love to understand this, but i just cant.
 
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