Exercising More Effectively And With Less Stress

[chispas]

I've been browsing the internet reading some information about intermittent fasting (IF), and listening to some of the supposed benefits that promoters of IF claim. Given that so many people who failed their IF attempts are now trying to heal their broken metabolisms via Peat-diet-philosophy, I'm skeptical that it is as beneficial as claimed. I think Peat's view is that it is harmful.

But then, I also wondered if there isn't some advantage to training fasted, but in a very low-intensity and non-stressful way that doesn't see the body lose oxygen or CO2. I see a lot of exercise as being high-intensity, and I wonder if this is the main drawback of combining such demanding physical exertion with the fasted, low glycogen state. I'm thinking something like isometric exercise, or static holds with heavy weights, or paused squats, etc, might be sufficient to create a training effect, while preventing stress otherwise generated by intense exercise. I'm thinking no eccentric or concentric contractions at all.

My other thought was whether supplementing vitamin E through such an exercise routine would help to potentially aid the utilisation of fatty acids by the muscles through the workout. Pubmed evidence would disagree with the idea:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11984298
Effect of vitamin E and eccentric exercise on selected biomarkers of oxidative stress in young and elderly men. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[raypeatclips]

My body feels stressed just simply being when fasted, I can't imagine exercising in that state ever being beneficial.

 

[Pointless]

I think Ray Peat has said that you don't want to burn fat, at least preferentially, under any circumstance, so I don't know the logic behind using vitamin E to utilize fatty acids. Correct me if i'm wrong. Exercising while fasted can lead to secretion of growth hormone. I am certainly able to work out harder and longer while fasted, but I think this is stress. Functional Performance Systems has a great page on Ray Peat quotes and exercise that you would be interested in.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

static/isometric exercise would be great for bones but virtually useless for muscle and metabolic health.

 

[chispas]

I don't think it's useless. I think that's the opinion of the fitness industry, as it strives to remain relevant.

I see the South Korean weightlifting team now doing all manner of heavy isometric holds for over a minute at a time. It looks to push muscle recruitment to near 100%.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I don't think it's useless. I think that's the recopinion of the fitness industry, as it strives to remain relevant.

I see the South Korean weightlifting team now doing all manner of heavy isometric holds for over a minute at a time. It looks to push muscle recruitment to near 100%.

Recruitment and utilisation are not the same. You can recruit a 100 workers but they are useless sitting on their asses instead of out on the job actually doing something. For statics/isometrics to be useful you have to follow it with heavy full range of motion concentric and eccentric movements. There's no magic to it. Trust me I have tried all sorts of things over my 12+ years of lifting. You need normal resistance exercise to produce any kind of muscle/metabolic benefit. Done right and with a supportive diet it is not overly stressful

 

[lollipop]

Recruitment and utilisation are not the same. You can recruit a 100 workers but they are useless sitting on their asses instead of out on the job actually doing something. For statics/isometrics to be useful you have to follow it with heavy full range of motion concentric and eccentric movements. There's no magic to it. Trust me I have tried all sorts of things over my 12+ years of lifting. You need normal resistance exercise to produce any kind of muscle/metabolic benefit. Done right and with a supportive diet it is not overly stressful

@Gl;itch.e how does this translate into yoga that incorporates isometric type of long holdings that suck in/contract muscle towards the bone?

 

[Gl;itch.e]

@Gl;itch.e how does this translate into yoga that incorporates isometric type of long holdings that suck in/contract muscle towards the bone?

Yoga is great for stretching, maintaining flexibility and general meditation/relaxation. I don't think it could ever claim to strengthen or grow muscles or effect the metabolism outside of its sympathetic nervous system quietening effects. It can aid in athletics by enhancing recovery from other training modalities though.

 

[lollipop]

Yoga is great for stretching, maintaining flexibility and general meditation/relaxation. I don't think it could ever claim to strengthen or grow muscles or effect the metabolism outside of its sympathetic nervous system quietening effects. It can aid in athletics by enhancing recovery from other training modalities though.

Interesting. I grew/still grow and maintain my muscles with it doing long holdings of poses like plank, headstand, handstand, full backbend, warrior poses etc. Interesting. Perhaps it affects different people different ways. Also not going for "cut" look type of muscular build, more of long dancer like muscle.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

Interesting. I grew/still grow and maintain my muscles with it doing long holdings of poses like plank, headstand, handstand, full backbend, warrior poses etc. Interesting. Perhaps it affects different people different ways. Also not going for "cut" look type of muscular build, more of long dancer like muscle.

Did your development also correspond with your adoption of Ray's ideas? A good diet will allow your body to reach a "natural" amount of muscle due to optimised hormones, anything beyond that will take a concerted effort of exercise and diet to attain. The people I know who do solely yoga for exercise do not have what I would call a strong or developed physique. The would have what you refer to as a dancers build which is really just relatively low bodyfat and "toned" (which is just uncovered) untrained/unworked natural levels of muscle.

 

[lollipop]

Did your development also correspond with your adoption of Ray's ideas? A good diet will allow your body to reach a "natural" amount of muscle due to optimised hormones, anything beyond that will take a concerted effort of exercise and diet to attain. The people I know who do solely yoga for exercise do not have what I would call a strong or developed physique. The would have what you refer to as a dancers build which is really just relatively low bodyfat and "toned" (which is just uncovered) untrained/unworked natural levels of muscle.

Yoga first - doing for about 30yrs. Peat in last 2 years after I tanked my metabolism/thyroid from low carb/paleo.

I can tell a difference in muscle expression when I focus on what I call "yoga fitness" type of practice versus "normal" practice which creates what you described above.

Thank you for your thoughts, interesting.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I can tell a difference in muscle expression when I focus on what I call "yoga fitness" type of practice versus "normal" practice which creates what you described above.

That makes sense to me. What you have there is essentially what chispas was referring to with the static exercise recruiting muscle. Your muscles are "recruited" and in a state of readiness. Their resting tone (level of activity/contraction) is higher than in someone who is completely sedentary. You would probably have a very good base with which to start training for other activities/exercises from your years of yoga

 

[lollipop]

That makes sense to me. What you have there is essentially what chispas was referring to with the static exercise recruiting muscle. Your muscles are "recruited" and in a state of readiness. Their resting tone (level of activity/contraction) is higher than in someone who is completely sedentary. You would probably have a very good base with which to start training for other activities/exercises from your years of yoga

Cool. Makes sense

 

[chispas]

Yeah I'm not thinking about yoga.

I'm thinking about "full power against the bar":

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I know what you were getting at. Just conversing with Lisa along related lines. You can try what you propose but I can promise you you will be disappointed with the results if this is all you plan on doing.

 

[chispas]

It's not that I intend to limit all training to isometrics, I'm just trying to find a way to maximise the training effect in the least amount of time and with the least stress possible.

I just think a lot of iron sports are rubbish. Bodybuilding gives no strength or balance whatsoever, just useless biceps. Powerlifting makes you slow and inflexible. I did Olympic lifting for a few years, and it felt healthy at the time, but the training routine is very demanding, and very high intensity. The technique is not even the hard part. Hence, I'm trying to think outside of the box.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

It's not that I intend to limit all training to isometrics, I'm just trying to find a way to maximise the training effect in the least amount of time and with the least stress possible.

Stress is what causes the adaptation and results. Minimising stress is minimising results. What you want to do is optimise your training to your lifestyle and recovery abilities.

I just think a lot of iron sports are rubbish. Bodybuilding gives no strength or balance whatsoever, just useless biceps. Powerlifting makes you slow and inflexible. I did Olympic lifting for a few years, and it felt healthy at the time, but the training routine is very demanding, and very high intensity. The technique is not even the hard part. Hence, I'm trying to think outside of the box.

These styles are only as good as the practitioner doing it. Bodybuilding can be very effective at strengthening and balancing the body and its exactly what bodybuilding started out as! Powerlifting makes fast people faster not slower, powerlifting can also increase flexibility if used correctly. I have better flexibility than most and train mostly towards the powerlifting end of the resistance training spectrum. Olympic lifting is as close to a peat approved (minimising eccentric action) lifting regime as you will find. The intensity can be waved should you find you are not handling the volume of work required to progress with it.

For someone trying to think outside the box you seem rather close minded and unwilling to see the potential benefits in properly applied training

 

[chispas]

For someone trying to think outside the box you seem rather close minded and unwilling to see the potential benefits in properly applied training

I think you are right.

These styles are only as good as the practitioner doing it

Why are there styles though? Strength is not a style. It doesn't make sense to me. I don't know why people put themselves in these boxes, perhaps you can explain?

The intensity can be waved should you find you are not handling the volume of work required to progress with it

There is no such thing as linear progression in Olympic weightlifting. Progression is two steps forward, three steps back. The whole thing is pulling teeth out of a crocodile's mouth week after week for a few extra grams on the bar, while believing incorrectly that technique is everything. There should be a better way, but there isn't because so much dogma and pseudoscience prevents progress.

 

[SolidSteele]

OP I don't get what you are trying to achieve. Do you want to want to utilize fat or improve performance?

 

[chispas]

OP I don't get what you are trying to achieve. Do you want to want to utilize fat or improve performance?

I suppose improve performance. Generate the most force possible through the muscles for strength and speed.