Exercise Intolerance?

[beachbum]

It didn't for me. But I think I was severely deficient due to decades of poor diet and poor digestion. Might for you. I would think, though, that you might have to eat them every day, at least for a while, and they're high in PUFA and fat, which is not good for a fatty liver. Eggs might compound the problem if there's liver dysfunction involved. I don't mean liver disease, but like a dysfunctional pre-disease state that's not detectable by standard labs (like I was in for years). But I dunno. Everyone's different. You could try.

If you've changed your diet and feel less stressed that could mean things are changing for the better. There's a whole constellation of symptoms and criteria that go into a diagnosis of CFS, and in fact I was never formally diagnosed. I got onto a CFS discussion board because I was interested in a supplement protocol, and then as I began to tangentially learn more about CFS I realized that's what was wrong with me, and I had a lot of symptoms. I knew I often got dizzy upon standing, for example, and my heart rate would fluctuate fairly severely depending upon whether or not I was standing or lying down, but it never occurred to me that that was something diagnosable. I was that stupid. I just thought it was my weird physiology since it had happened off and on for as long as I could remember. But turns out it's Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS), which is one of the criteria for CFS (as is PEM).

Worth noting is that there are degrees of severity, too. My POTS was never acutely chronic, and most of my life it was pretty scattershot. Didn't get bad or frequent until I was feeling my worst, and even then was not nearly as bad as some poor souls have it. Some people can't even stand up. These days mine is pretty much gone. I get it once in a great while, but even less than when I was younger.

Might try googling "CFS criteria" or something similar to see exactly what goes into a diagnosis.


Yeah, that's a BIG topic and it's not that simple. It's quite complex. I'm sorry, but I just can't get into giving a lot of advice about it because the complexity, and also the side effects can be disagreeable and I can't be responsible for trying to guide someone through it. I'm not a doctor or any kind of healthcare professional. Plus there are numerous co-factors that could be involved in getting everything to "go" properly, and not the same co-factors work for everyone. Some people get a lot of good out of SAM-e, for example, but it only worked for about a week for me before turning bad on me.

How I got started is I educated myself and then tried some things, and kept educating and kept going. I actually mentioned a lot of supps in my post above that can get someone started on researching it. If you're really interested, my advice is to go to Phoenix Rising

Phoenix Rising ME / CFS Forums

and read up on posts by user Freddd to decide if it's something you want to try. His posts are what got me onto it. Get a grasp of what you might be doing and what you might be in for from doing some reading. Then try something. That's what worked for me. I can try to give help after you've gotten started but I just don't have time to get someone up to speed on the topic. That's legwork you have to do. Sorry to be so blunt but that's what it is. Once you start reading Freddd's posts I think you'll see why I say that. But Freddd's protocol can be a very worthwhile undertaking. Good luck, let me know how it goes!

Please dont thick some of us don't do research, you have NO idea the leg work I did, I just wanted to compare things I may have missed that I can try, I guess I will check out freddd's experience then.
Thank you

 

[whodathunkit]

@beachbum, I know. It seems like I'm punting but really, the info is all there and it's such a HUGE topic...I can't rehash it. I don't have time. A good cogent post on that could take a couple hours, and would still beget more questions than it answered. You really do have to go to the source. The info is all over there.

I will give you a clue that the foundations of Freddd's method are:

Methylfolate (NOT folic acid)
L-carnitine fumarate (aka LCF, NOT acetyl-l-carnitine aka ALCAR)
methylcobalamin (methylated B12, NOT cyanocobalamin)
adenosylcobalamin (another form of B12)

But they don't just automatically work to make you better on your own. There are other things that make them go like B2, B6, etc. Lots of other stuff to think about, and for everyone what makes it work is different.

And then there are side effects some people get. Can range from anxiety to bowel issues (I went through both those and more). Some find them intolerable and can't work through them. How to work through them varies according to the deficiencies the individual has. What worked for me might not work for you. You have to figure that out on your own.

Then there's the dosages. Everyone does better at different dosages at different times. For a while I had to do crazy high doses of methylfolate and the B12's, before I got to where my symptoms wouldn't come back on lower dose. Other people would basically explode at the doses I used.

Freddd explains why all these variations are possible and what to look out for. Lots of other good contributors over there, as well. I also contributed a bit. It's unfortunately scattered throughout a bunch of posts throughout the forum but I pieced it together fairly quickly just from reading and re-reading him. Repetition is the best teacher. Just kept at it and reached a solution that worked for me.

Again, if you go over there, I think you'll see why it's pretty much impossible to cover it in a post or two, and why I just can't try. I consider myself recovered from CFS but still have my own issues, including having to prioritize my energy for things I must get done in my life, and also some lingering memory issues and minor cognition issues. I hope you understand.

Good luck! :)

 

[beachbum]

@beachbum, I know. It seems like I'm punting but really, the info is all there and it's such a HUGE topic...I can't rehash it. I don't have time. A good cogent post on that could take a couple hours, and would still beget more questions than it answered. You really do have to go to the source. The info is all over there.

I will give you a clue that the foundations of Freddd's method are:

Methylfolate (NOT folic acid)
L-carnitine fumarate (aka LCF, NOT acetyl-l-carnitine aka ALCAR)
methylcobalamin (methylated B12, NOT cyanocobalamin)
adenosylcobalamin (another form of B12)

But they don't just automatically work to make you better on your own. There are other things that make them go like B2, B6, etc. Lots of other stuff to think about, and for everyone what makes it work is different.

And then there are side effects some people get. Can range from anxiety to bowel issues (I went through both those and more). Some find them intolerable and can't work through them. How to work through them varies according to the deficiencies the individual has. What worked for me might not work for you. You have to figure that out on your own.

Then there's the dosages. Everyone does better at different dosages at different times. For a while I had to do crazy high doses of methylfolate and the B12's, before I got to where my symptoms wouldn't come back on lower dose. Other people would basically explode at the doses I used.

Freddd explains why all these variations are possible and what to look out for. Lots of other good contributors over there, as well. I also contributed a bit. It's unfortunately scattered throughout a bunch of posts throughout the forum but I pieced it together fairly quickly just from reading and re-reading him. Repetition is the best teacher. Just kept at it and reached a solution that worked for me.

Again, if you go over there, I think you'll see why it's pretty much impossible to cover it in a post or two, and why I just can't try. I consider myself recovered from CFS but still have my own issues, including having to prioritize my energy for things I must get done in my life, and also some lingering memory issues and minor cognition issues. I hope you understand.

Good luck! :)

I was just interested in most foods but that's cool. Thank you for your time.
I think I my follow Dr. Dalton mixed with RP foods. I know in the pdf she mentions rice, potatoes, and oats, I reread it.

 

[whodathunkit]

I was just interested in most foods but that's cool. Thank you for your time.

Oh, foods.

Yeah, just the usual. Real food, not processed, low PUFA, low fat. Etc. Prolly what you're already doing.

I do disagree with Peat about starch, but otherwise I've gotten a lot of good out of his thinking.

I natter on about the supps because for me, they got me going to where I could get good out of my food. Before them, didn't really matter what I ate, I never felt that much better. I was like a car with a manual tranny that just needed a nice long push to catch gears and get going.

 

[EIRE24]

Oh, foods.

Yeah, just the usual. Real food, not processed, low PUFA, low fat. Etc. Prolly what you're already doing.

I do disagree with Peat about starch, but otherwise I've gotten a lot of good out of his thinking.

I natter on about the supps because for me, they got me going to where I could get good out of my food. Before them, didn't really matter what I ate, I never felt that much better. I was like a car with a manual tranny that just needed a nice long push to catch gears and get going.

What do you think of that probiotic elixa I think it is called? Do you eat much dairy?

 

[beachbum]

Oh, foods.

Yeah, just the usual. Real food, not processed, low PUFA, low fat. Etc. Prolly what you're already doing.

I do disagree with Peat about starch, but otherwise I've gotten a lot of good out of his thinking.

I natter on about the supps because for me, they got me going to where I could get good out of my food. Before them, didn't really matter what I ate, I never felt that much better. I was like a car with a manual tranny that just needed a nice long push to catch gears and get going.

Lol yep me too, but doing way better to the point I tried a vitamin that bothered me"zinc" and it workef great for my sleep. Now thinking about multi b but real ify.

 

[whodathunkit]

What do you think of that probiotic elixa I think it is called? Do you eat much dairy?

I use Elixa. I like it, seems good esp. for the price. But worth noting is if you've already got a preponderance of bad guys in your gut, probiotics are unlikely to do much. A few baddies and probix work pretty well, but if you've got chronic long-term gut problems you might want to look into some strategies around here for using antibiotics and other things to address microbes before circling back around to probiotics. Unfortunately, the only way to know if you can succeed without addressing the bad guys first is to try the probiotics.

I also don't use them daily...only sporadically. "Load" a few times per year, like with Elixa. Although I use other things, too.

I drink milk every day and eat cheese frequently. Yogurt, ice cream, whatever, when it pops up and the mood strikes. No apparent problems with dairy. I've tried going off it for months at a time and never noticed any difference in mood, cognition, whatever people say dairy can affect, so I'm good with it.

 

[SQu]

Hi, SQu! :)

it's such a HUGE topic...I can't rehash it. I don't have time. A good cogent post on that could take a couple hours

We used to joke that if our kids were telling us about a movie they saw that was 1 hour 37 minutes long, it would take 1 hour 37 minutes to tell us what happened! Kind of like that, right?!

But I think you're lucky, @allblues, you already know more than I did when I needed the info the most. And you're on the right track, which I wasn't for a long time.

 

[lampofred]

Just a theory:

High cortisol. Specifically, poor glucose oxidation resulting in high stress hormones. Because of Peat-ing, you're probably switching from primarily fat oxidation to primarily glucose oxidation, and your ability to oxidize glucose might not be where it needs to be to supply enough ATP for your activities. That's why your body is releasing massive amounts of cortisol. It is an attempt to increase ATP by increasing available sugar, but it's not working because it's not the amount of sugar that's the problem but rather the inability to oxidize it.

I would do everything you can to increase your ability to oxidize glucose (which is easier said than done). Take vitamin B1, niacinamide, aspirin, drink 4-5 cups of coffee daily, keep fat intake (especially PUFA) low, eat as much sucrose as you can, and reduce stress as much as you can.

 

[Constatine]

As much as it is talked about in this thread and forum already I do think it is primarily due to calorie consumption. Most people in this forum are intellectuals and need more calories than normal to support brain activity. Add exercise to the mix and you'll nearly always be boarding on a caloric insufficiency. Personally if I eat under 4000 calories I feel terrible working out. Also try to eat more of a variety of food, not just classically Peary food (but still within the bounds of Peaty foods of course).

 

[Diddleum]

Hi!

I'm having a real hard time recovering from even very moderate exertion.
Five days ago i played squash with a friend, at a pretty moderate pace, to the point of having
to do some mouthbreathing to catch my breath.

Felt sluggish afterwards, which is OK i suppose after exercising, but now five days later i still can't shake it off. Limbs feel weak, slight dizziness, irritability. Paradoxically, (or maybe not) sleeping is difficult.

What might this be? Cortisol? Hypoglycemia? Both?
I took about 1g thiamine total yesterday and the day before that, might've set me back further if it lowered blood sugar even more.

I'm trying to eat more, more carbs but it feels like trying to set fire to damp wood, nothing really happens
mood or energywise.

Any ideas?

Hello Mate,

I struggle with this to. I am 35 and have been active my whole life (run a marathon, triathalon or two in my time), I've been into every sort of sport and exercise imaginable.

I woke up feeling great this morning, and with that motivation, made the usual mistake of going to the gym. I didn't do that much, I did ten minutes of interval sprints 30 secs on 30 secs off and some pullups an dead lifts. I went home and fell asleep and I don't feel as great.

Despite my poor decision this morning, I have had experience and have read a lot on this. You need to try to be diciplined and resist the temptation to just agree to a game of squash (which will likely destroy you). What you need to do is graduated exercise therapy. Keep a journal. First of all don't do any exercise, just rest up. When you feel good, just do an hours housework or something no more, then rest up. If you don't get tired either straight after or the next day, then do an hours housework, rest a couple of hours and do another hour. I'm sure you get the idea, build up to the point you can be a reasonably active person doing normal things in life.... You don't want to be bedridden. You may already be at this point, if so great. When it comes to exercise, start with yoga, and a little walking. Move up to longer walks, slowly increase your pace and distance. Start with one push up a day, Im sure your with me.

You need to do everything you can not to stress yourself out by over exerting your self. Get fitter the smart way by building up within your comfort zone. Unless your young and fit, just going to play a vigourous game of squash off the bat with hurt you for days. Put your pride to one side, despite only being 35 and in great shape and a history of fitness Ive brought myself right down with just a few sets of sprints.

Being patient and gradually building up to that game of squash is the way to go if thats what you want.

 

[Antonello]

Sorry, I've missed this thread until @SQu tagged me. Hi, SQu! :)

Anyway, just a couple comments born of experience.

This is what they call Post Exertional Malaise, or PEM for short (I say "pem" like it's all one word but it may be more correct to use the letters of the acronym P-E-M...dunno). PEM is a hallmark symptom of CFS, although just because you have PEM doesn't necessarily mean you've got CFS. What PEM does mean is that you're having metabolic problems that could likely lead to more serious energy and immune issues down the road if left unaddressed. I had mild PEM and extremely disproportionate muscle soreness after exercise for some years before I really went in the tank metabolically.

I beat PEM (I had CFS) by eating only whole foods, correcting nutrient deficiencies, straightening out my neurotransmitters, cleaning out my liver a bit, and fixing my gut. It took about a year of intense supplementation with stuff I felt I needed before things really began to happen and true recovery began. I crashed a lot (got immune reactions like sick with the flu) during that first year. I would feel like I could exercise and wanted to exercise and then I would get PEM and get really sick after I did. But each time I recovered I felt a little better than before I got sick. That's how I knew I was on a good track.

A lot of my recovery was just dumb luck and came about because I simply refused to stop reading and trying things. I figured out what worked for me and what didn't. What worked for me doesn't necessarily work for other people, and what works for some doesn't work for me. We've all got infinitely different deficiencies and genetics precipitating what is essentially a finite number of symptoms that our bodies can manifest.

Correcting nutrient deficiencies included a bunch of targeted minerals and vitamins. Stuff like magnesium, molybdenum, folate (NOT folic acid, but methylfolate), couple different kinds of B12, etc. Also CoQ10, P5P (active B6), pantethine (active B5), other B's, stuff like that.

Fixing my gut included choline supplementation, starchy carbs including resistant starch, bile and digestive supplements, and probiotics.

Fixing my neurotransmitters included choline supplementation along with other supplements, and a good diet.

Cleaning out my liver started with the choline supplementation. Liver loves choline, although too much is NOT GOOD. After the choline it's been an ongoing journey.

When I started choline, resistant starch, and probiotics is when I noticed a huge, dramatic difference in exercise tolerance and soreness after exercise. However, without the foundation of the other things, especially the loading of the B's and remineralizing myself, I don't believe the choline, RS, and probiotics would have helped. It was a whole process, not just a matter of ingesting a few targeted supps here and there.

When I became able to exercise like a normal person I considered myself to have recovered from CFS. "Exercise like a normal person" to me means some exercise pretty much every day, whether it be an hour of Pilates or an hour at the gym with weights or a session of HIT doing sprints, or just an hour of walking fairly fast. Not all in the same day, of course, but something once per day, at least five days per week. Without undue soreness, as well. And all that in addition to being able to carry on other activities like go to work, walk the dogs, etc. These days I don't consider myself to have CFS any more, although I still have to be careful and not overdo (e.g., do too much in one day or not get enough rest) and not slide too much with diet or supplements.


This indicates adrenal problems, and as @haidut says, problems with cortisol. I can still get the cortisol night rush if I overdo at the gym. I've found pantethine helps with cortisol and adrenal problems. Also, on the days I lift weights, I go early in the morning to the gym. If I can't get there by noon I skip it. In general I try to do things that require more exertion in the morning, since that's when our cortisol is naturally highest. Works with the body's rhythms.

Good luck, hope you can get it sorted!

I'm interested in your healing protocol and I see choline was a big part. Wondering what form have you used and how much per day?
Thanks in advance

 

[Runenight201]

Hello Mate,

I struggle with this to. I am 35 and have been active my whole life (run a marathon, triathalon or two in my time), I've been into every sort of sport and exercise imaginable.

I woke up feeling great this morning, and with that motivation, made the usual mistake of going to the gym. I didn't do that much, I did ten minutes of interval sprints 30 secs on 30 secs off and some pullups an dead lifts. I went home and fell asleep and I don't feel as great.

Despite my poor decision this morning, I have had experience and have read a lot on this. You need to try to be diciplined and resist the temptation to just agree to a game of squash (which will likely destroy you). What you need to do is graduated exercise therapy. Keep a journal. First of all don't do any exercise, just rest up. When you feel good, just do an hours housework or something no more, then rest up. If you don't get tired either straight after or the next day, then do an hours housework, rest a couple of hours and do another hour. I'm sure you get the idea, build up to the point you can be a reasonably active person doing normal things in life.... You don't want to be bedridden. You may already be at this point, if so great. When it comes to exercise, start with yoga, and a little walking. Move up to longer walks, slowly increase your pace and distance. Start with one push up a day, Im sure your with me.

You need to do everything you can not to stress yourself out by over exerting your self. Get fitter the smart way by building up within your comfort zone. Unless your young and fit, just going to play a vigourous game of squash off the bat with hurt you for days. Put your pride to one side, despite only being 35 and in great shape and a history of fitness Ive brought myself right down with just a few sets of sprints.

Being patient and gradually building up to that game of squash is the way to go if thats what you want.

Lol I’m only 24 and I’ve wrecked my energy for the day by over exercising.

Being aware of the physiological changes in energy levels as one exercises also helps. I can feel when I’m energy depleted, and when I was more ignorant and unaware, i would spur myself on through sheer force of will, undoubtedly stressing myself badly.

Now I can just feel it when I’ve had enough, to prevent myself from over-exertion. Initially, when one is unhealthy and unfit, it’s better to avoid activities where level of effort are outside individual control (well, if you don’t want to get socially punished for it, like down regulating effort in a team sport because of lack of energy, of course, you could not care, but often times people will label you as lazy). As better health and fitness are reached, participation in more intensive team sports can be undertaken since exhaustion won’t be reached as quickly , and more focus can be placed on performing the sport well, with less consciousness being placed on physical energy levels.

 

[Spartan300]

@whodathunkit an old thread I realise but PEM is the closest summary of what I have been experiencing for some years now. Rest doesn't fix it and I think I need to try the things that worked for you.

Others have lots of good things to say about thiamine including improved exercise tolerance. Was this something you used?
Always seems to give me insomnia even with plenty of carbs....

 

[LadyRae]

@whodathunkit an old thread I realise but PEM is the closest summary of what I have been experiencing for some years now. Rest doesn't fix it and I think I need to try the things that worked for you.

Others have lots of good things to say about thiamine including improved exercise tolerance. Was this something you used?
Always seems to give me insomnia even with plenty of carbs....

Ugh, me too... I feel betrayed by my body lately. It seems that any exercise more intense than walking the dog will cause me to wake up in the early morning hours and I can't get back to sleep. My whole life I've been active and quite physical with swimming and biking and running in backpacking, lifting weights, gymnastics. Yesterday I went for a 4-mile slow jog with my dog and then laid in the sun throughout the day and ate plenty of food. But then I woke up at 12:30 a.m. and haven't gotten back to sleep since.

 

[Vanset]

Ugh, me too... I feel betrayed by my body lately. It seems that any exercise more intense than walking the dog will cause me to wake up in the early morning hours and I can't get back to sleep. My whole life I've been active and quite physical with swimming and biking and running in backpacking, lifting weights, gymnastics. Yesterday I went for a 4-mile slow jog with my dog and then laid in the sun throughout the day and ate plenty of food. But then I woke up at 12:30 a.m. and haven't gotten back to sleep since.

How long have you been experiencing this?

 

[Spartan300]

Ugh, me too... I feel betrayed by my body lately. It seems that any exercise more intense than walking the dog will cause me to wake up in the early morning hours and I can't get back to sleep. My whole life I've been active and quite physical with swimming and biking and running in backpacking, lifting weights, gymnastics. Yesterday I went for a 4-mile slow jog with my dog and then laid in the sun throughout the day and ate plenty of food. But then I woke up at 12:30 a.m. and haven't gotten back to sleep since.

Se for me. Libido tanks and sleep goes out the window....

I have been always been physically active, some martial arts, weights 3 times per week but after a stressful period in life I am no longer capable of such things.
I have been trying the peat lifestyle for more than 6 years now and although I am better in some ways I cannot recapture my physical vigor.

Maybe worse having known what decemt physical prowess has felt like..

 

[LadyRae]

Se for me. Libido tanks and sleep goes out the window....

I have been always been physically active, some martial arts, weights 3 times per week but after a stressful period in life I am no longer capable of such things.
I have been trying the peat lifestyle for more than 6 years now and although I am better in some ways I cannot recapture my physical vigor.

Maybe worse having known what decemt physical prowess has felt like..

I hear you, I'm in the same exact situation. Right now I'm actually in bed and I am so tired, I've been awake for 20 hours. But here I am because I have 14 notifications in the Ray Peat forum .

 

[electricsematic]

I think there is a very dangerous pitfall of classical "peating" which we all fall into but explicitly not aware of. But, cravings of earthy or slight astringent tastes points the problem.

A high sugar high calcium low fiber low irritation (hence very high oxidation) diet without +10 mg of copper and corresponding traces, will demineralize and over-sensitivizes body to any kind of strenuous activity, i.e. having little more eccentrics than sitting or lying down.

Though I was good at perception and thinking, after two years, I could not move nor act nor make huge locomotive changes anymore. And I was wrongly equating sensitivity with fragility though one body can be sensitive with robust juvenile features. Same kind of pathology is also seen in working patterns, inability to make closures.

Now I have huge appetite for vegetables, roots, sprouted legumes, greens since all are very high in copper, zinc, and others manganese and molybdenum. As well as only those provides enough folate and K1, enough for high calcium to be sent into correct place. (Remember Peat was saying to 300 mg of Aspirin, 1 grams of K1 needed, same is true for all high metabolics, oranges, milk, coffee, t3 and others.) Further, only a good vegetable base can provide necessary thiamine and niacin and other b vitamins except b12. Without those, I could not eat oranges anymore, let alone pure sugar.

Even falling into low vegetable hence low mineral base for a say six hours, inability to act to get up to fall into stable and robust sleep is impossible. I began to waste away, teeth start to demineralize, bones seeming much fragile and smaller. The situation becomes worse with T3, aspirin, baking soda, coffee, red light if no minerals provided; forcing them works only for an hour or so, only to create worse adrenaline rush after. Hence, in order to sleep one has to ingest huge amount of sugar with calcium and t3, only to get up more demineralized than the previous day, and the same continues for months or years. The result is a body and mind burnt out.

Such a chronical pitfall can be surpassed with occasional standart meals, but this would be not to delve into the "implicit peating." It is latent in the core experience of Ray's theory. Sugar works with minerals, in order to sustain the high metabolism=sensitivity&motivity of "the liquid crystal." Without minerals, sugar turns into a medicine, rather than a nutrient.

So, only thing a perfect high metabolic diet to add tons of agreeable/cooked/detoxified/de-seeded/sprouted non-sweet-fruits/vegetables/leaves/roots/legumes/grains. The aim is same, to support very high sugar oxidation, via eating whole plants filtering its most toxic parts. This way, I could raise up to 700 g - 1 kg of sugar in the diet, with the addition of say, 4-5 kg of cooked zucchini, or green beans. When supported with pure sugar and correct metabolic forcing, a slight-toxic plant part can work as antibiotic and peristaltic for the gut. And this may be the reason behind the mainstream idealization of plant fiber. And the negative polarity of feedback relation is what hypothesized in classical peat idea of soluble fiber working as anti-peristaltic hence anti-metabolic.

Remembering Ray switched to a fruit-vegetable diet with very little milk, I am now delving into microdosings of peating staples, not only t3, but also, pure sugar, caffeine, salt, soda, calcium/milk, oranges, fruits in general. With very high mineral primary meals. In such a diet, necessity of milk is dependent on a feedback relation of CO2-calcium with the energy using the mineral state in body. And forcing too much of them will necessitate more mineral, few hours later. And this must be what is called in the mainstream, sugar crash. Let us call it in the understream: CO2 crash with the losing of mineral-crystal structure.

More here,

Why Ray switched into high vegetable, or copper as hidden variable

High copper and high mineral bases are specifically harvested taste-wise and feeling-wise in traditional eating, coupled with high carb. On the other hand, a classical Peating diet as very high carb with fructose, calcium, metabolic enhancers, and less serotonin-estrogen in general, necessitate...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Highserotonin90]

@electricsematic

So you're basically saying that mineral supplementation has to be very supportive if we want to rely on this eating style.